Curiosity Just Went Through Mud?

reply to post by Wolfenz


The reason they put Curiosity in that crater, is that they believe that back when Mars did have much more atmosphere and liquid water on it's surface, they believe that crater was full of it, like a small ocean or sea.

We don't know what other kinds of life are out there, but we do know what kinds of life we have here on Earth, and all of them require water in liquid form.

So basically, they are hoping to find fossilized life at the very least, to show that what happened on Earth (basic life forming in the oceans) also happened on Mars.

I know a lot of people feel that doing this really doesn't mater, and is no big deal, but it actually is. Finding fossilized life, even single celled life in the rock there, would show that life did start there too.
And what if they single celled fossils they find there match up with single celled fossils here on Earth? That would be an even bigger discovery.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
Is the surface really wet? I haven't the faintest clue but take a peek at the image taken by MRO that shows the tracks of Curiosity. Check out the start point that shows a different color. Though the image has been enhanced at source, the color of the surface at the start point is completely different from the surrounding area that shows the typical color of the surface of Mars - a brownish tinge.

Why two different colors? That means the area where the Curiosity started from is different in composition from the rest of the area. So, does that area have moisture? And therefore some 'mud' sticking to Curiosity's aluminum wheels?

Image of the tracks made by NASA's Curiosity rover taken by
Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.
Courtesy: NASA / JPL-Caltech / Univ. of Ariz.



www.msnbc.msn.com...

edit on 13-9-2012 by OrionHunterX because: (no reason given)

Those areas are where the retro rockets blew the dust away exposing the rock beneath.

NASA has reported this numerous times.

The color difference is to enhance the tracks, it's not water.

I didn't say it's water! However, the retro rocket stuff you are talking about that has blown the dust away is this...



Notice the difference? This one has been made by the retro rockets and not the first image I posted.

Originally posted by OrionHunterX


I didn't say it's water! However, the retro rocket stuff you are talking about that has blown the dust away is this...



Notice the difference? This one has been made by the retro rockets and not the first image I posted.

No. The landing rockets were on the skycrane used to lower the rover. The second image you posted has nothing to do with that. The first one does.

This color view of the parachute and back shell that helped deliver NASA's Curiosity rover to the surface of the Red Planet was taken by the High-Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. The area where the back shell impacted the surface is darker because lighter-colored material on the surface was kicked up and displaced.

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

It does look like a 'wet' track. I know the title suggested mud - maybe he should have said 'wet sand' instead but just to come on here and post about the specifics of his title is a bit sad really. You must be right grumpy gits sat there looking for these type of errors.

Back on topic - yeah it does look like a wet track and the 'wet sand' has got stuck to the tyres. What it is i don't know...

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

The reason they put Curiosity in that crater, is that they believe that back when Mars did have much more atmosphere and liquid water on it's surface, they believe that crater was full of it, like a small ocean or sea.

We don't know what other kinds of life are out there, but we do know what kinds of life we have here on Earth, and all of them require water in liquid form.

So basically, they are hoping to find fossilized life at the very least, to show that what happened on Earth (basic life forming in the oceans) also happened on Mars.

I know a lot of people feel that doing this really doesn't mater, and is no big deal, but it actually is. Finding fossilized life, even single celled life in the rock there, would show that life did start there too.
And what if they single celled fossils they find there match up with single celled fossils here on Earth? That would be an even bigger discovery.

hmm interesiting full of water in the crater ? I wonder if they would find anything in that big gash that is called a cannel channel ( sorry forgot the name of it ) The biggest cannel like somthing scraped along the surface of mars I wonder if anything could be there ... let alone gotta say it ,,,,.... Cydonia

see here....

Global mosaic of 102 Viking 1 Orbiter images of Mars taken on orbit 1,334, 22 February 1980
en.wikipedia.org...:Mars_Valles_Marineris_EDIT.jpg



thanks again for the Info

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

The reason they put Curiosity in that crater, is that they believe that back when Mars did have much more atmosphere and liquid water on it's surface, they believe that crater was full of it, like a small ocean or sea.

We don't know what other kinds of life are out there, but we do know what kinds of life we have here on Earth, and all of them require water in liquid form.

So basically, they are hoping to find fossilized life at the very least, to show that what happened on Earth (basic life forming in the oceans) also happened on Mars.

I know a lot of people feel that doing this really doesn't mater, and is no big deal, but it actually is. Finding fossilized life, even single celled life in the rock there, would show that life did start there too.
And what if they single celled fossils they find there match up with single celled fossils here on Earth? That would be an even bigger discovery.

One sensible answer, and all that points to one thing to make it true, they are looking for water, or signs of, in any form. This is an impact crater from very ancient times, it has an uplift in the central part. Water could be trapped in the uplift, it could be trapped in the crater edges, stuff that did not fall back into the crater could be elsewhere, and just as important. The trick then is defining how much water is likely to have be included in the 'moat' after such an impact, on that I have no idea, but I would lean toward much less in the 'moat' and more to the middle or the uplift, and the crater inner sides, or perhaps the rims and all in between.

reply to post by smurfy

Curiosity isn't really looking for water or signs of it.

The mountain in Gale crater is not an impact central peak, layering provides evidence that it is the eroded remnant of the sedimentary seabed which originally filled the entire crater. That is why it is of such interest. The exposed sedimentary layers will reveal more than 1 billion years of geological history. By studying the minerals in the various layers Curiosity will work on determining if, over that period of time, conditions may have been supportive of life. Best case...evidence of such life.

themis.asu.edu...

reply to post by Phage


It's sad to hear that water being on mars isn't important to us and that water being there before is .
Why not put some sensors on board that would give us the green light to terraform the planet along with searching for sings of previous oceans and life?
It doesn't make sense to me other than former oceans would mean possibility of future life unless they already know of water on mars and want to collect data of what went wrong.

I'm saying that a check for current and former water would make more sense that an archaeological expedition unless they have more factors at play than we do.

To think that we could travel all that way and land in such a precise spot but not have a water detection system onboard is unthinkable unless we had very specific motives.
moisture meter

reply to post by deadeyedick

Are you talking about liquid water?

As has been pointed out there really is not much chance of finding it on the surface of Mars because any occurrence would be highly transitory. But if Curiosity happens to actually find a puddle (or even a patch of ice) it is capable of determining that it is composed of water. In either situation it would be somewhat of a surprise (given the location) but it's just not really in the mission plan to search for it since it is known that Mars had surface water in abundance in the past. It's a given.

reply to post by Phage


Cool thanks.
I figured as much.

en.wikipedia.org...

Water on Mars exists almost exclusively as water ice. The Martian polar caps consist primarily of water ice, and further ice is contained in Martian surface rocks at more temperate latitudes (permafrost). A small amount of water vapor is present in the atmosphere.[1] There are no bodies of liquid water on the Martian surface.

So condensation on the tracks is not completely out of the realm of possibilities.

en.wikipedia.org...

Static discharge in space exploration Due to the extremely low humidity in extraterrestrial environments, very large static charges can accumulate, causing a major hazard for the complex electronics used in space exploration vehicles. Static electricity is thought to be a particular hazard for astronauts on planned missions to the Moon and Mars. Walking over the extremely dry terrain could cause them to accumulate a significant amount of charge; reaching out to open the airlock on their return could cause a large static discharge, potentially damaging sensitive electronics.[19]

Static electricity produces heat there is some amount of moisture in the atmosphere along with frozen water there. Wet or frozen soil on the tracks is perfectly plausible.imo

reply to post by deadeyedick

So condensation on the tracks is not completely out of the realm of possibilities.

Any surface condensation would be in the form of frost since temperatures are well below freezing until the middle of the day.


I'd like to clarify what I said about Curiosity not specifically looking for water. It carries an instrument called DAN. This instrument is designed to look for the signature of hydrogen in the ground. Finding this signature could indicate the presence of water but it is designed more to find hydrated minerals, minerals which formed in the presence of liquid water. Again, part of the mission to determine if and when conditions may have been favorable for life.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by smurfy

 

Curiosity isn't really looking for water or signs of it.

The mountain in Gale crater is not an impact central peak, layering provides evidence that it is the eroded remnant of the sedimentary seabed which originally filled the entire crater. That is why it is of such interest. The exposed sedimentary layers will reveal more than 1 billion years of geological history. By studying the minerals in the various layers Curiosity will work on determining if, over that period of time, conditions may have been supportive of life. Best case...evidence of such life.

themis.asu.edu...

edit on 9/14/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I didn't say that the 'mountain' aka Mt Sharp is the uplift, I said there is an uplift in the central part of the crater. Gale was a complex crater on formation. So to add, a big difference since there would be a central peak to begin with, and perhaps where the most importance lies.

reply to post by Phage


I think your quote was ment for this thread here.www.abovetopsecret.com...
Thank you for your response and input on my thoughts and anyone else that can follow my line of reasoning with a response.
Remember that that hand glider wont keep you in the air forever but it's better than just folding your arms while looking down.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by Phage

 

Cool thanks.
I figured as much.

en.wikipedia.org...

Water on Mars exists almost exclusively as water ice. The Martian polar caps consist primarily of water ice, and further ice is contained in Martian surface rocks at more temperate latitudes (permafrost). A small amount of water vapor is present in the atmosphere.[1] There are no bodies of liquid water on the Martian surface.

So condensation on the tracks is not completely out of the realm of possibilities.

edit on 14-9-2012 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

en.wikipedia.org...

Static discharge in space exploration Due to the extremely low humidity in extraterrestrial environments, very large static charges can accumulate, causing a major hazard for the complex electronics used in space exploration vehicles. Static electricity is thought to be a particular hazard for astronauts on planned missions to the Moon and Mars. Walking over the extremely dry terrain could cause them to accumulate a significant amount of charge; reaching out to open the airlock on their return could cause a large static discharge, potentially damaging sensitive electronics.[19]

Static electricity produces heat there is some amount of moisture in the atmosphere along with frozen water there. Wet or frozen soil on the tracks is perfectly plausible.imo

edit on 14-9-2012 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

I see no reason either, can we say a 'mildly moist' possibilty? That static discharge in the devil's and storms is thought by some to be one source of the Methane found on Mars, that would need to include water molecules;

“We propose a new production mechanism for methane based on the effect of electrical discharges over iced surfaces,” reports a paper published in Geophysical Research letters, written by a team led by Arturo Robledo-Martinez from the Universidad Autónoma Metropolitana, Azcapotzalco, Mexico.

“The discharges, caused by electrification of dust devils and sand storms, ionize gaseous CO2 and water molecules and their byproducts recombine to produce methane.”

More,
www.universetoday.com...

Some online quotes about the MSL mission,

"... intended touch-down zone in a deep equatorial crater, The Gale Crater which is one of the lowest spots on Mars. If water is present underneath the surface of Mars this is where the water will be closest to the surface."

"Water, whether liquid or frozen, absorbs neutrons more than other substances. The Detector of Albedo Neutrons on the Mars Science Laboratory rover will use this characteristic to search for subsurface ice on Mars.
CREDIT: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Russian Federal Space Agency"

"Water might also be present in a transient form that changes with the Martian seasons, such as soil moisture that can increase or decrease according to the surrounding humidity."...same source, says vast tracts of underground water are not expected.

About the formation of Gale crater,


Gale Crater, the landing site of the 2011 Mars Science Laboratory mission, formed in the Late Noachian. It is a 150 km diameter complex impact structure with a central mound (Mount Sharp), the original features of which may be transitional between a central peak and peak ring impact structure. The impact might have melted portions of the substrate to a maximum depth of ~17 km and produced a minimum of 3600 km3 of impact melt, half of which likely remained within the crater. The bulk of this impact melt would have pooled in an annular depression surrounding the central uplift, creating an impact melt pool as thick as 0.5–1km. The ejecta blanket surrounding Gale may have been as thick as ~600 m, which has implications for the amount of erosion that has occurred since Gale Crater formed. After the impact, a hydrothermal system may have been active for several hundred thousand years and a crater lake with associated sediments is likely to have formed. The hydrothermal system, and associated lakes and springs, likely caused mineral alteration and precipitation. In the presence of S-rich host rocks, the alteration phases are modelled to contain sheet silicates, quartz, sulphates, and sulphides. Modelled alteration assemblages may be more complex if groundwater interaction persisted after initial alteration. The warm-water environment might have provided conditions supportive of life. Deep fractures would have allowed for hydraulic connectivity into the deep subsurface, where biotic chemistry(and possibly other evidence of life)may be preserved.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Would like to see the moon buggy tires and how caked up the moon dust was for comparison.

The lunar vehicles had flexible mesh tires. Plenty of adhesion on the hubs though.

thought it was determined there was plenty of water on mars in some form, be it ice or simply percipitation.

Not plenty, not at the surface. But water ice was found in the north polar region by Phoenix. No precipitation has been found (not any reaching the surface anyway).

edit on 9/11/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Interesting thing about that pic for me....is there are no tyre tracks leading up to the position of the wheel. Is this a stock pic from a museum, or is it supposed to be from the moon?

reply to post by idmonster


I'm pretty sure it is a moon photo; there are cross hairs in it, and the lighting looks right. But I don't really know..agreed that there are no tire tracks, what so ever in the photo, yet a lot of deep foot prints. Perhaps that was the landing point for moon rover and they were just getting in it for the first time? Of course that is if it is an actual real on the moon photo.

When I paint motorcycles as part of my side hobby, I have to acetone or clean the surfaces or else I will get patterns like those on my rims when I lay the paint down. The contaminants I am cleaning away for a smooth clean surface, can range from dirt and dust stuck there from grease and oils during assemble/disassemble. The moon dust stuck to these rims suggest such contaminants, water and mist is not the only thing that can cause this is what I am saying in such long winded way.

Good Question, it does indeed look like it has some sort of liquid substance within the sand/mud, i guess we will have to wait till NASA starts the drilling project to find what elements lay beneath the surface of the red planet.

Rather than have the same water evidence posted all over the internet, duplicated loads of time, I will post a link to it below.

I found something which looks as if water has been flowing here in this picture fairly recently. There is even a 'paw print' in the mud so if you feel like debunking it, go ahead, or alternatively just explain what your interpretation of it is.

Captured by the 'old rovers', I have seen water and dirt mixed and flowed like this on Earth, and I am sure you have too.

evidence of mud and liquid running over the surface of a rock + paw print showing 'depth' to the mud

Academically, it is easier and less challenging for belief systems to look for signs of past water. It is safe to 'find' this and then bring the discovery up to the present date with 'new' discoveries.

reply to post by qmantoo


Water (or any other liquid) would change the colour and reflectivity of what's below, and nothing like that is noticeable in that photo.

reply to post by Larry L


I see exactly what you talking about and WTF?!?!? Dude that is mud, especially in the second image you can clearly see wet sand (or w/e its called), you can actually see the difference in color also from dry to wet, looks like fresh wet stone almost with thin layer of mud... and even the tracks are darker where the imprint was made, just like if you go to a beach, wet under the top layer, and it is no shadow, that is way to dark for a shadow.

And on a side note, if it was dry everywhere, the tires of the rover would not be covered in patches of dust, it clearly looks like wet chunks of dirt got stuck on it and dried up.