Curiosity Just Went Through Mud?

reply to post by Larry L

Is that link explaing that this stuff is deadly and makes up the Van Allen belts not enough to make my point for the sake of this debate?

No. It's irrelevant because even without the magnetosphere the surface of the Earth would not be "roasted". Our atmosphere provides far more protection than the magnetosphere does. The Earth's magnetic field has reversed many times, fragmenting and failing in the process. There is no evidence that life on Earth was affected in the process.

it was no later than 6th grade my teachers told us about the Earth's magnetic field holding back cosmic "stuff" that would kill everything on the planet.

Perhaps you should have paid more attention after 6th grade.

The only reason I brought up carbon dating in the first place was just to make the point that if a science we use for dating things here on Earth (carbon dating), is basically useless beyond 50,000 years.

You know there are other methods of dating, right?

Well your 1 billion years without water number is based on naught but how it looks on the surface in pictures. I don't consider that scientific data, I'm sorry. And I'm surprised you do.

True, the estimates are based mostly on visual evidence. I take it you are in a good position, with a strong background in geology, to so casually dismiss it.

reply to post by Larry L
The first view could be just some very static powdery dust. The second view however looks like water stains from mud to me.Definitely circular patterns that seem caused by wetness. See it around this desert all the time.
David

reply to post by eriktheawful


Yeah, I wasn't going to bother posting all the cloud stuff because as soon as I searched it, I realised just how common, and Earth like, clouds were on Mars. And it's not even something NASA's trying to hide, they even talk about water clouds right in descriptions. Isn't it strange how people just ignore it to the point where a shocking amount of people think Mars has no atmosphere at all. Judging by all the footage, it in fact seems that the atmosphere of Mars is much more thick than even people like myself who knows about the atmosphere and clouds think it is.

Here's a couple more cloud gifs and images. And there's alot more too.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

www.thelivingmoon.com...

www.thelivingmoon.com...


So..........I guess that pretty much settles it. The images I made this thread about probably DO show moist dirt on the rover wheels, and the cause of the moisture is.......Mars' atmosphere just really isn't all that dry. The secret that was never really being kept I suppose, LOL

Still back at page four, but had to stop to post.

The pics don't show mud at all.

1. mudding

To go out in the mud in the back of a truck or jeep or other 4x4 vehicle and spin in the mud until all the occupants are covered in mud. "I am so dirty. We went mudding earlier and I just know this mud won't come out of my clothes!"

This is mud:






Okay, but mud indicates a moist environment, something not expected.

Page four, back to reading....

You know? I just realized something. This is actually my first real ATS thread. (My only other one was because I knew Anon members came here so I was trying to reach them on a personal level.)

I've been coming to this site daily since 2006. The good ol' John Lear days when ATS was fun (which this thread actually reminds me of). I finally joined some time later, but regardless of how little I actually post, or how few threads I've ever made, I'm a daily, dedicated ATS'er.

As first threads go, I think this was a pretty good one.

Thanks to ALL participants. Supporters, critics and trolls alike (and there weren't many). CHEERS !!!!

Originally posted by OneEleven
Most of the people on ATS are here because they 'thought they saw something' .... Banning people who 'thought they saw something' is counterproductive to ATS's reason for being ....

There is a big difference between announcing:

"Curiosity just went through mud"
and:
"Curiosity just went through mud?"

That is the difference between "did" and "thought".

It took quite a while before the title was changed to reflect a random incorrect thought. My post was prior to that and part of the reason that it was changed.

Personally, i strayed away from the wheels as my attention was drawn to the 'sand' . UNDER the rover on the first pic, and just outside the wheel on the second pic, the sand does appear to be wet.

It's perfectly fine for you to think that it's mud.

reply to post by Larry L

Do clouds form that high up on Earth?

Yes.
www.atoptics.co.uk...

For clouds to form on Mars if it's surface atmosphere density is equivilent to 100,000 feet on Earth........that bar figure for Mars doesn't make much sense to me.

Here is the current (sort of) atmospheric pressure in Gale crater.
marsweather.com...

Here's a handy calculator to convert. Not perfectly accurate because of the difference in atmospheric compositions between Mars and Earth.
www.csgnetwork.com...

The images I made this thread about probably DO show moist dirt on the rover wheels, and the cause of the moisture is.......Mars' atmosphere just really isn't all that dry. The secret that was never really being kept I suppose

The images probably do not show moist dirt.

Mars' atmosphere is very dry. It is also cold and very thin. This means that it can hold very little water vapor. The combination of being very cold and very thin means that the air becomes saturated with very low levels of water vapor, allowing clouds to form. Do you need more information about atmospheric science?

This IS the big give away for me. You can definitely see the discoloration of the soil. The left of the image is dry, the right is wet.

reply to post by Consequence


Actually it was only a couple of minutes (maybe 10) before I added the question mark I think. I acknowledged it in a post as soon as I did it which you can see on page 1. And the content of the post itself never changed at all, even though I would have liked to add a word or two here and there.

And I said I originally intended to have that question mark there. It's clear from the get-go I was never sensationalist about it. Seriously dude, I started it off as a casual story of how I was looking for bugs goofing on myself (kinda). I have no alterior motives to the ones I wear on my sleave.

I don't know why you're talking about me like I'm some kind of hit-monger. You see me advertising any sites, books or TV shows here?

Phage said: Mars' atmosphere is very dry

You DO keep saying that. But all the images of water clouds and water vapor fog in craters and valleys around dawn hours, in official NASA images, and NASA themselves is saying that's what it is, this is not my interpretation of the images, would suggest that perhaps your statement is still up for debate. The Jury's still out so to speak.

For there to be THAT thick of water vapor fog in the mornings, ALOT of dew is being put down for sure. Look at the third link in my post a couple before. I think the amount of dew morning fog like that would put on the ground would more than account for the amount of moisture needed to get dirt to stick to a wheel, and yes, even enough to form that little bit of ....wait for it.....mud.....on the tread of that wheel.

That seems logical to me, and is right in line with what NASA has officially shown and stated to be there.

reply to post by Larry L


What a phu***ing hoax this whole thing is!!!

Who in their right mind is buying, that these photos are real????

How much more can we make of these fake manipulated photos????

Are you simply going to believe such photoshhop bullsh**t??

We get we deserve!!!

Rant Over, enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by Larry L

You DO keep saying that. But all the images of water clouds and water vapor fog in craters and valleys around dawn hours, in official NASA images, and NASA themselves is saying that's what it is, this is not my interpretation of the images, would suggest that perhaps your statement is still up for debate. The Jury's still out so to speak.

No. It is known that there is very little water vapor in the atmosphere of Mars.

As I said, clouds of water ice form because the thin Martian atmosphere has little capacity for water vapor (because it is so thin) and reaches saturation with very low humidity levels. That water ice, when warmed, sublimates. It does not melt because the atmospheric pressure is too low. There would not be any dew or rain because the ice turns directly back into water vapor.

That seems logical to me, and is right in line with what NASA has officially shown and stated to be there.

Your logic ignores atmospheric science. Did you happen to notice the latitudes of those clouds and fog? Were any of them near the equator where Curiosity is?

Originally posted by ladyarwen
reply to post by Larry L

 

What a phu***ing hoax this whole thing is!!!

Who in their right mind is buying, that these photos are real????

How much more can we make of these fake manipulated photos????

Are you simply going to believe such photoshhop bullsh**t??

We get we deserve!!!

Rant Over, enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right On Sista !!!
ò.Ó
Fight the power!!!
*puts up hands and backs away slowly*

While it's possible it's due to moisture, between the thin atmosphere of Mars (well under 1% of Earth's), the low gravity (Mars has about 23% of the mass of Earth), the lack of wind (to blow dust off), and I can't be sure of why dirt is sticking so easily. I know NASA mentioned some type of clay being in this area, so is there a chance maybe they just passed through what NASA was looking for?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Larry L

 

You DO keep saying that. But all the images of water clouds and water vapor fog in craters and valleys around dawn hours, in official NASA images, and NASA themselves is saying that's what it is, this is not my interpretation of the images, would suggest that perhaps your statement is still up for debate. The Jury's still out so to speak.

No. It is known that there is very little water vapor in the atmosphere of Mars.

As I said, clouds of water ice form because the thin Martian atmosphere has little capacity for water vapor (because it is so thin) and reaches saturation with very low humidity levels. That water ice, when warmed, sublimates. It does not melt because the atmospheric pressure is too low. There would not be any dew or rain because the ice turns directly back into water vapor.

That seems logical to me, and is right in line with what NASA has officially shown and stated to be there.

Your logic ignores atmospheric science. Did you happen to notice the latitudes of those clouds and fog? Were any of them near the equator where Curiosity is?

edit on 9/12/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I think you're just going to have to admit defeat here and admit that may just be moisture.

1) I don't think you even looked at the pictures in that 3rd link to see how thick that morning fog is first of all. Because regardless of where it is, that's ALOT of thick fog considering it's completely filling hundres and hundred, maybe thousands of miles of the (around) mile deep canyons of Noctis Labrynthis. And.........

2) As it so happens, Noctis Labrynthis is pretty damned close to the Martian equator. Feast your eyes on Noctis Labrynthis EDIT- I can't get this link to work........look it up if you don't believe me. It's coordinates are 7.0 deg S, 102.2 deg W (well that's where it starts, it runs like 1200 miles along the equator)

Like I said, actually look at how thick that water vapor fog is thats filling these VAST canyons that make the Grand Canyon look small.
No moisture, Phage? I don't think so. I know from experience in the AZ desert that if you were in those canyons with a sheet of plastic, you'd be harvesting enough dew to fill you cantine with fresh, clean martian drinking water in a few hours.

That is SERIOUSLY thick fog, and alot of it. If there's fog even half that dense around the rover in the mornings, that would be plenty to acount for the moisture I'm seeing in the OP.

wow people you really limit yourself, and hate on a good post? what exactly is damp dirt? ... I look at it as.. um mud. continue on and troll if you will.

Originally posted by somedave
While it's possible it's due to moisture, between the thin atmosphere of Mars (well under 1% of Earth's), the low gravity (Mars has about 23% of the mass of Earth), the lack of wind (to blow dust off), and I can't be sure of why dirt is sticking so easily. I know NASA mentioned some type of clay being in this area, so is there a chance maybe they just passed through what NASA was looking for?

there's plenty of wind on mars, as evidenced by the many dust storms and dust devils. it's pressure that is the problem. because mars' atmosphere has such low pressure, you could walk comfortably through gale force winds. well relatively, the sand would be annoying and probably damage you're equipment....but i think you take my meaning.

Originally posted by ladyarwen
reply to post by Larry L

 

What a phu***ing hoax this whole thing is!!!

Who in their right mind is buying, that these photos are real????

How much more can we make of these fake manipulated photos????

Are you simply going to believe such photoshhop bullsh**t??

We get we deserve!!!



Rant Over, enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I the only one that agrees with you on this?

I think the entire thing is a massive deseption, once again. The moon, Mars.....
The photos all seem to much like they were taken in the Kalahari or Sahara desert. Now, I realise that it may very well look the same on Mars as what it looks like in our deserts, but my gut just does not sit right with this whole thing.

Mud? Yes, there is a definite colour variation in the sand that sticks to the wheels in the OP's photos. And it may well be that they accidentally drove through a wetish bit of sand ON EARTH, not on Mars.

Catch me once, good for you, catch me twice and I will truly be the fool you took me for.
No thanks, I don't buy this thing.

CGI to be, or CGI not to be.
That is the question!

We are being so sucked in again and again, so mired under the BS, that we forget to
question the basics.

Time is short. Snap out of the cartoon BS.

I see Phage is actively on-board here. A definite rational where reason has no place.

Ca Va, Phage?