Let's Revoke The Rights and Protections Awarded to Heterosexual Married Couples

Originally posted by blamethegreys

I disagree with Annee on this topic, and we have discussed it somewhat on this thread, but neither of us have stooped to personal attacks. In fact, reading through Annee's posts, she has remained civil throughout. You may disagree about the presentation of her position, but you don't have to drag things down to this level.

Thanks

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. And I rarely argue.

But - you don't see me making strong statements in threads I don't have knowledge of.

I try to speak only what I know.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

Facts and knowledge can be influenced by personal beliefs and bigotries masquerading as facts and knowledge.

Many people assume what must be true for them must be true for everybody else and must be made to be true.

I tend to focus on one subject because my life is complicated. You don't see me much in other threads.

I try to be open to all information in regards to all LGBT categories. I listen to OutQ - I read LGBT news sites - - and follow links to research and resources.

It is not just about my opinion.

The one thing I do not accept is religious belief. At all. So if religion is the base of your argument against homosexuality - expect a solid granite wall.

I also read any research article about Genes - DNA - etc. Like this one: vitals.nbcnews.com...

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

But too many people on both sides of this issue have the crap attitude of "it has to be my way or the highway and I'll take it to the government to force my way onto you if you don't comply" crap.

Attitude?

A couple wants to get married - - they want a Legal marriage - - which in this secular government should not be an issue.

There is only one main reason this is an issue. And we all know what that is.

Force? Forcing a God belief to deny Equal Rights. Unacceptable in a secular government.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Annee

 

Sorry, but no.

There are people who do change their orientation'

They are rare.

Not that I'm aware of - - and I've been following this subject for about 20 years.

I do support the "sliding scale" - - that there are degrees on how hetero or homosexual a person is. And I do believe most people fall somewhere close to the middle.

Every BI person I've discussed this with - - said they were very comfortable with both genders -- but ALL of them said they were more attracted to one or the other. There is no 100% true BI - - meaning not having a preference to one gender or the other - - even if its slight. That I'm aware of.

Behavior is different then orientation. Sexual Orientation is how the body is hard wired. It does not change naturally.

Can people choose their behavior? Absolutely!

I know there is a well known Christian "leader" who has chosen to live a straight life. He is very open and honest about this - - to help others like himself. He loves his wife - he loves his family. But - he is very honest that attraction to same sex never goes away. It is something he struggles with every day.

Legitimate Christian (who believe homosexuality to be a sin) - - counseling have changed their methods. They now admit it can not be changed - - - but a homosexual can choose to agree that its a sin - - be celibate - - or make the choice to live a straight life with a woman.

People change sexual orientation all the time good example of that is my sister she dated girls her entire life and never shown the least interest in males.About 3 years ago started dating a guy and last year they were married.Even psychologist tell you sexual orientation can change they are advised not to attempt the change however.If its not something the individual wants you will do far more psychological damage.So if you spent 20 years and want to wear this as some kinda badge so be it it just tells me youve been closed minded for 20 years.

Force? Forcing a God belief to deny Equal Rights. Unacceptable in a secular government.

Telling people to shut up and not express their opinion and berating them is unacceptable in a society that values free speech and tolerance. Even if it is an unfortunate opinion, in such a society, even these people have a right to express it.

Forcing people to accept something as normal when it isn't should also not be acceptable in a tolerant society. Because where does it end?

At one point in our history it was acceptable for our fifteen year olds to marry a forty year year old. Social attitudes do change.

But they only change for the better when they are given a choice and an incentive to, and when people are treated with respect, and not browbeaten to conform or shut up through constant belittling them and demonization.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

It is always wrong for people, regardless of which side of the issue one is on, to bully people into accepting something they do not want to accept. People are highly resistant to change, and will not change if they do not have to.

It does not win hearts and changes minds.

And I'll repeat it, only treating people with respect and giving them incentives will win hearts and change minds. You have to show them how social changes will benefit them is the only way to win hearts and change minds.

Insulting berating, imposing, demonization, does absolutely nothing.

I wish both sides could understand that.


But people are too interested in being right instead of just saying, "hey, WTF do I care what they believe or do?"

If there is a real kind and loving God out there, he she or it will judge people on their own meris and flaws, and how they treat other people, how they made the world a better place for all people.

double post

Originally posted by dragonridr

People change sexual orientation all the time good example of that is my sister she dated girls her entire life and never shown the least interest in males.

Sexual orientation is part of the hard body wiring (and/or brain chemical makeup). Anyway - - one does not change orientation.

BI - - is middle on the scale. They usually have a preferred orientation - - but not significant to keep them from being attracted to both genders.

Sexual experimentation - - especially if you fall near the middle of the scale is not unusual. It would be unusual for hetero or homosexual born to the extreme ends of the scale.

Behavior is choice.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

Force? Forcing a God belief to deny Equal Rights. Unacceptable in a secular government.

Telling people to shut up and not express their opinion and berating them is unacceptable in a society that values free speech and tolerance. Even if it is an unfortunate opinion, in such a society, even these people have a right to express it.

Forcing people to accept something as normal when it isn't should also not be acceptable in a tolerant society. Because where does it end?

We are a secular government.

Religion should have no basis in determining Equal Rights.

Religion is a belief and a choice.

Sexual orientation is normal and not a choice.

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Where am I telling anyone to shut up?

Are we or are we not a secular government?

Where am I telling anyone to shut up?

Are we or are we not a secular government?

When you make comments that ridicule people (such as when you say boo hoo) that's just another way of telling people to shut up and anything else is just semantics.

And we are not a secular government. We are a fascist government, that is ruled by the corporate interests and the wealthy elite.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

Where am I telling anyone to shut up?

Are we or are we not a secular government?

When you make comments that ridicule people (such as when you say boo hoo) that's just another way of telling people to shut up and anything else is just semantics.

And we are not a secular government. We are a fascist government, that is ruled by the corporate interests and the wealthy elite.

Where am I making comments that ridicule people?

We are officially a secular government.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

At one point in our history it was acceptable for our fifteen year olds to marry a forty year year old. Social attitudes do change.

Its still legal and at one time so was a 7 year old marrying.

If you want to discuss social attitudes with others - - feel free to do so. Should I bring up slavery now?

Not gonna do it.

Religion is not a valid reason to deny Equal Rights in a secular government.

reply to post by Annee


Officially is not the same as reality. In reality America is a fascist government.

The corporations have a huge amount of influence and power.

An example, but if off topic, is how RIAA went overseas and got Demonoid shut down.

Anyhow, that is off topic.

And it doesn't matter if you're shown where you ridiculed people, you'll never accept it nor admit it.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Annee

 

Officially is not the same as reality. In reality America is a fascist government.

How does that relate to the subject?

BTW - I agree with you. But it has nothing to do with this subject.

Officially we are a secular government that can not deny Equal Rights because of religious belief.

The Prop8 trial - - determined that there was no argument that wasn't religious based - - and that is not an acceptable to deny Equal Rights.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

And it doesn't matter if you're shown where you ridiculed people, you'll never accept it nor admit it.

I have stated I will not accept religion as a valid argument against Equal Rights for gays.

So - why would anyone continue to use religion in arguing Equal Rights for gays with me?

You're right - - I have zero tolerance for religious anti-gay belief. So find another argument.

Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who has ever really talked to Gay folks.

Why would anyone "Choose" a life of ridicule?

Just by some of the replies. Nobody would subject themselves to this.

Please take the time to ask a "Gay" person to explain their decision.

If you approach with an open mind. You will see most feel they are born "Gay".

reply to post by Dizrael


I absolutely agree with you, because like you I am married to my wife and like you I am for same sex marriage. Just because the government can't seem to get religion out of the office doesn't mean that I should have to lose a union that I was afforded. Again I'm for fair treatment, and clearly the OP thinks that all married heterosexual couples are also bigots if this is the treatment he/she thinks we deserve. But unfortunately for the OP, we live in America and we also live with a heavy number of bigots, especially the south, and united change on this subject will most likely not come soon. I wish you the best with your mate, and I also hope you can rid your heart of hate because going down this path will change nothing for the homosexual community. Hatred is usually countered with more hatred, I suggest a different approach.