Electromagnetic Effects Associated with Unidentified Flying Objects.

Yes well you see EM can't do those things as well as electrostatic power can.
So I'd say ES effects, which can be proven, makes those claims.
Static power in great repetition is almost certainly the cause of UFO effects.
www.google.com...
Thinking the waves come from the UFO then the UFO uses ES and not EM waves.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Elzon1
Normally EMP fries everything.

Yes it can fry lots of things, unless they are inside Faraday cages, so not everything.

In this case everything seemed fried but was later "un-fried".

No. It doesn't seem that way to me, as fried electronics don't "un-fry", in my experience, and I've seen my share. Maybe this was also the Colonel's misunderstanding? But jammers can be turned on and off, and similar devices could affect more than just communications.

A Faraday cage would not shield an object from the effects of an EMP,It works well to protect against a directly applied source of a high voltage,such as a lightning strike.An EMP does not need direct inducted contact with an object to interfere with it's function.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
According to who?

Electronic jamming is targeted at either communication (radio) or detection (radar). Jamming does not render unrelated instruments non-operational. The first pilot reported full instrument and communications failure. It wasn't sent in for maintenance most likely because diagnostics showed no faults in the electrical systems of the phantom. The second phantom did, so it went in for maintenance. There was also a commercial airliner that reported communication failure in the area at the time of the sightings.

According to the technicians at the base, that plane had a history of electrical problems, and they didn't confirm that the other plane was even sent in for a maintenance check after the supposed electrical failure:

The Tehran 1976 UFO

The Westinghouse tech at Shahrokhi confirmed that only the second F-4 was reported to have experienced any electrical problems during the flight; the first F-4 was never sent in for maintenance. The McDonnell Douglas tech at Shahrokhi noted that the second F-4 had a long history of intermittent electrical outages that the IIAF had never been able to fix. He was personally called in to adjust that F-4's radar about a month after the event. Both techs stated that the Shahrokhi base was notorious for low quality work and poor record keeping.

So we have reason to expect that Jafari's F-4 would have had electrical problems regardless of whether he was under attack by a UFO or not, and we have conflicting stories about whether Nazeri's F-4 had any problems at all or not.

I'm not convinced any of this exceeds the "realm of classical physics" as you put it.

As far as I am concerned about that particular incident it seems to be out of the ordinary. Also, some of the capabilities of the unknown craft demonstrate it's superiority over all modern (even to this day) military aircraft. It's maneuverability and speed is well beyond anything humanity is known to have. Also it's EMP like capability to interfere with all electronic devices is well beyond any modern military's electronic jamming capabilities.

It's good to be constructively skeptical so long as one does not persist in active denial of factually abnormal occurrences.

As for any extraterrestrial hypothesis one may remain in denial until the time when they have to deal with it on a daily basis (dealing with ET's on a - nearly - daily basis) and even then might somehow still be in denial of reality. One in denial may in time be presented with overwhelming factual evidence of what is being denied and the denier will simply move to higher heights of denial.

One may deny as much as they wish to. However, in time they will close their minds to the true reality that surrounds them.

Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see, and hear. Since the initial publication of the charted electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear...is less than one millionth of reality.

Inevitably we will discover that we experience and detect far less of reality than we assumed we did. This includes all forms of detection we have today. Time will tell

Originally posted by nake13

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Elzon1
Normally EMP fries everything.

Yes it can fry lots of things, unless they are inside Faraday cages, so not everything.

In this case everything seemed fried but was later "un-fried".

No. It doesn't seem that way to me, as fried electronics don't "un-fry", in my experience, and I've seen my share. Maybe this was also the Colonel's misunderstanding? But jammers can be turned on and off, and similar devices could affect more than just communications.

A Faraday cage would not shield an object from the effects of an EMP,It works well to protect against a directly applied source of a high voltage,such as a lightning strike.An EMP does not need direct inducted contact with an object to interfere with it's function.

A wellgrounded Faraday cage can however.

"A single atmospheric nuclear detonation releases enough electromagnetic pulse (EMP) to equal 100,000 volts per square centimeter on the ground"

So yeah, you need somewhere for that energy to go instead of into your equipment. A well connected grounding rod with a well constructed Faraday cage would keep things safe.

Originally posted by Elzon1

Originally posted by nake13

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Elzon1
Normally EMP fries everything.

Yes it can fry lots of things, unless they are inside Faraday cages, so not everything.

In this case everything seemed fried but was later "un-fried".

No. It doesn't seem that way to me, as fried electronics don't "un-fry", in my experience, and I've seen my share. Maybe this was also the Colonel's misunderstanding? But jammers can be turned on and off, and similar devices could affect more than just communications.

A Faraday cage would not shield an object from the effects of an EMP,It works well to protect against a directly applied source of a high voltage,such as a lightning strike.An EMP does not need direct inducted contact with an object to interfere with it's function.

A wellgrounded Faraday cage can however.

"A single atmospheric nuclear detonation releases enough electromagnetic pulse (EMP) to equal 100,000 volts per square centimeter on the ground"

So yeah, you need somewhere for that energy to go instead of into your equipment. A well connected grounding rod with a well constructed Faraday cage would keep things safe.

Faraday cages cannot block static and slowly varying magnetic fields, such as the Earth's magnetic field (a compass will still work inside). To a large degree, though, they shield the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

If a particular system on a Phantom was having problems it either worked or it didn't work, they didn't turn themselves "off and then back on" randomly, or it wouldn't have been passed fit to fly. Most military airframes, spend far more time being worked on and serviced than actually flying. Given what happened that night, it's almost a racing certainty a full diagnostic would have been carried out as routine as , in effect, it ceased to function in its' primary role as an "interceptor".

So why did the technicians at the base say the electrical problem was intermittent? That seems to directly contradict your statement.

Originally posted by kronos11
reply to post by karl 12

 

Apart from disturbing electrical or mechanical equipment EM fields have been reported to also disrupt animals and people. I had a close sighting of a disc with my best friend up in the mountains - it was approx. 11pm at night and we were standing in the driveway of a remote cabin and we saw the craft come down a mountainside and as it approached within a few hundred feet all of the animals in the forest "woke up" and started to fly and run in the opposite direction. There were various birds, rabbits, squirrels fleeing en masse, a few of them actually bumped into my boots when the craft was overhead. There is a sub level hum that you could feel inside your bones kind of.

Could be ?? the Reason of the Mass Killings of Birds and Whales Dolphins etc Animals that Are Navigational

There here more than Offen UFO's and the Aliens that Drive them..

How Animal Migration Works
by Ed Grabianowski

science.howstuffworks.com...

Magnetic field - The earth has a magnetic field that's usually undetectable to humans who aren't holding a compass. Some animal species do have the ability to detect the magnetic field, however, and they use it to make their migrations. Bats and sea turtles use magnetic information to find their way [source: PhysOrg]. Some species of bacteria even rely on the magnetic field to orient themselves [source: SAO/NASA].

Originally posted by Elzon1

The first pilot reported full instrument and communications failure. It wasn't sent in for maintenance most likely because diagnostics showed no faults in the electrical systems of the phantom. The second phantom did, so it went in for maintenance. There was also a commercial airliner that reported communication failure in the area at the time of the sightings.

Elzon, thanks for the post - never heard about the commercial airliner EM reports before but there's a document here sent to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger about a UFO witnessed over Morocco on the same evening (morning) as the Tehran incident and apparently sightings occurred in the Agadir, Kalaa-Sraghna, Essaquira, Casablanca, Rabat, Kenitra, Meknes and Fez regions.

Was also interested to see that the Pentagon document describing the object's performance as 'awesome' and displaying 'an inordinate amount of maneuverability' was sent to the National Security Agency who (of course) deny having any interest in the UFO subject - below is an excerpt from the NSA's classified 'secret' intelligence magazine MIJI Quarterly about the Tehran case and it also mentions such topics as electronic jamming and instrument interference -Senior DIA Analyst Major Henry S. Shields also makes a rather casual admission:

The Air Force Admits Again That UFOs Are Real and Nobody's Listening.

The NSA had given the case reports to one of their operatives [also an Air Force officer] to include in the classified "Secret" intelligence magazine, MIJI Quarterly.They apparently had decided that cases like this needed to be known by operatives in the field who were charged with dealing with problems of "electronic countermeasures" such as jamming, signal confusion, instrument interference, etc.
Captain Shields tells the whole tale. But what is of greater interest is the casual admission written just below the title: "Sometime in his career, each pilot can expect to encounter strange, unusual happenings which will never be adequately or entirely explained by logic or subsequent investigation".

link

Originally posted by The GUT

The Iran UFO event was, apparently, an electromagnetic extravaganza of phenomenon.

Hey Gutster, I also think the Tehran case a truly fascinating one but our resident scepti-bunker Joberg thinks it's most likely pilot error:

I think the Tehran case has a plausible prosaic explanation of inexperienced rich kids in scary situations (night flying) with one notoriously malfunctioning avionics kit, under pressure from the head of the Iranian secret police (SAVAK) who demanded satisfaction regarding a fairly pedestrian 'UFO report' he phoned in.

link

Cheers.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Because, they were hoping people like you would jump on it and totally misunderstand what they actually meant? Because it's the usual disinformation dropped into the mix to try and put people off the scent? An intermittent fault means, sometimes it works when you boot it up sometimes, it doesn't, so you don't take off, or you return to base immediately under strict ground control not. "It randomly turns itself off and on" because the plane simply wouldn't have been allowed in the air in that case, as it would present a danger to it's own sides aircraft and as it's own friendly transponder would possibly malfunction, it would also stand the chance of being shot down by its' own side.

Originally posted by Elzon1

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by The GUT
Col. John B. Alexander said of the Iran incident and electromagnetism and why he found that incident so remarkable, was something to the effect of, "I know how to shut things down with it (EM) but I don't know how to start them back up!"

That Iran incident is one of the most interesting cases to me, including the electromagnetic effects, but I don't understand that comment. You can turn a jammer on to shut down communications and to restore communications you simply turn the jammer off. A nuclear EMP is different but nobody has suggested this was a nuclear event.

No not a nuclear event, just an EMP event on a scale that would "normally" be nuclear in nature. From what I can remember about the case is that ALL electronic instruments ceased to function (due to the pilot trying to launch a missile at the craft) and were later turned back on so to speak.

Normally EMP fries everything. In this case everything seemed fried but was later "un-fried".

With the capabilities these craft have I think it shows we are missing something fundamental about our understanding of electromagnetism. I will give you a hint. How would one create an artificial quantum field so as to surround a macro object in it?

Remember, quantum mechanics works on macro objects just like it works on micro objects. Some people think the math only suggests that micro objects can exhibit quantum properties, but reality states otherwise

edit on 5-9-2012 by Elzon1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-9-2012 by Elzon1 because: (no reason given)

More prosaically, perhaps it was a high performance aircraft with good ECM, maybe like a SR-71 or some such.

And the ECM might include the "Prefix Codes" kept in secret to turn off American aircraft weapons systems in case some equipment sold overseas happens to be used against US assets.

Originally posted by Orkojoker

..here's a clipping from the November 7, 1957 issue of The Coshocton (Ohio) Tribune. You'll notice the distinct similarities to the Levelland sightings, including shape, color and car stallage:

The year 1957 produced an absolute bumper crop of reports, including many featuring EM effects. A good read on this is The Southwestern UFO Wave of 1957 by Antonio Rullan.

That's a bloody great find right there mate and thanks for linking that report by Rullian - just how many egg-shaped object reports during November 1957 is that now?


Kirtland Air Force Base UFO - November, 1957


The sheer number of separately located witnesses seemingly describing the same UFO (highly maneuverable egg-shaped object with no wings, tail, or fuselage that was capable of extremely rapid rates of speed) is pretty mindboggling and even the Commander of Air Technical Information Center conceded in this document there is 'a current rash of UFO sightings'.

I think my personal favourite is the White Sands incident (November 3rd) where the USAF actually expect people to believe the planet Venus can give you sunburn - classic stuff.

The same day as the Levelland, TX sightings of Nov. 2,3, the day before the Kirtland & Stokes cases of Nov 4th, and three days prior to Radium Springs, NM case Nov. 6, was the White Sands MP incident. I haven't located any written reports or documentation, but this taped radio broadcast provided by Wendy Coonors of Faded Disc Archive is extremely interesting and is yet another case listed as a possible nuclear connection.

MP3 of White Sands PIO report to Radio Station KGSW

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


Did the F-4 Phantom in the Tehran incident, chase a lighted object, or a solid object with no discerning light visible?

A Foofighter...that is encased in its own lighted plasma shield; could possibly create at least one magnetic field, by the churning current's of the lighted plasma; surrounding the starship. Most likely... the plasma field, has to be controlled by another magnetic field, possibly emanating from the starship itself.

A computer controlled magnetic shield spike [EMP?], aimed towards the Tehran F-4 Phantom, could have disrupted the electronics of the jet fighter --- caused by the 2 opposing dipole magnetic fields of the Foofighter itself.

Just my speculation.

Cheers,

Erno86

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko

Some Project Magnet documents regarding research that was conducted by the Canadian Government back in the early 1950's also has some great information about UFO's and the theories behind their propulsion system. I was unaware these documents even existed or had been released up until about a week ago. Wilbert Smith has become kind of a Canadian "Icon" because of these documents and the interviews he gave regarding research that was conducted by the U.S. and Canada.

Project Magnet - The Canadian Research

Thanks for the post Jocko and the 'purpose' section of one of those UFO documents certainly makes for some interesting reading. :

Purpose

This project is for the purpose of studying magnetic phenomena, particularly those phenomena resulting from unusual boundary conditions in the basic electromagnetic field. There is reason to believe their discovery will open up a new and useful technology.

Here's another interesting one describing reports of an unknown object landing on an oil field near Umm Alaishan, Kuwait in November, 1978 - apparently the UFO caused electromagnetic interference effects on the oil pumping machinery (and other electrical equipment and local communications) but it all began working again after the UFO's departure:

A stunning declassified document: This is a cable from the US Embassy in Kuwait discussing the details and particulars of several quite spectacular UFO sightings and incidents in Kuwait in 1979, including the traditionnal unexplained shutdown of electrical equipment which worked fine again after the UFO's departure.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6342648696a8.jpg[/atsimg]


UFO Lands on Oilfield in Kuwait?

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


I'm sorry if it sounds like a dumb question, but don't all aircraft have electric fuel pumps?

If all the electric for the gages is lost wouldn't the fuel pumps also stop working?

And don't they also need power for the hydraulic pumps to operate the flaps?

Originally posted by irgust

I'm sorry if it sounds like a dumb question, but don't all aircraft have electric fuel pumps?

If all the electric for the gages is lost wouldn't the fuel pumps also stop working?

And don't they also need power for the hydraulic pumps to operate the flaps?

Irgust, that's a good point and below is some info taken from the report linked in the first post:

3. Engine Malfunction. There was a total of nine cases (16%) in which reciprocating aircraft engines either stopped completely in flight or lost power. These events are listed in Table 12.

Aircraft engines are known to fail in flight more often than many people realize so that such instances must be shown to be extraordinary and clearly unrelated to more common explanations as fuel starvation. All of the events cited above took place when one or more aerial objects were in close (visual) proximity to the aircraft Still it is possible that the pilot was so fascinated by the unexpected phenomenon that he forgot to switch fuel tanks or to take other required action.

An operating engine can be disrupted either by air, spark, and/or fuel supply. However, as long as the engine and aircraft are moving through the air, the carburetion system is functioning correctly, and the pistons are pumping up and down, the flow of fuel and air are drawn into the cylinders regardless of whether the engine is delivering power. "The only way to stop a running engine, therefore, is to disrupt the electrical system." (McCampbell, 1973, pg. 51) What can interrupt an electrical system?..

Continued

Originally posted by Erno86

Did the F-4 Phantom in the Tehran incident, chase a lighted object, or a solid object with no discerning light visible?

Hey Erno, it states at the link below the object was 'intensely brilliant' with flashing blue, green, red and orange strobe lights in a rectangular arrangement, it also states another 'object' was ejected from the original UFO and travelled around at a very high rate of speed before returning back into it - here's a drawing based on a sketch from one of the main witnesses:

The crew followed the intensely brilliant UFO and noted its light was like flashing strobe lights arranged in a rectangular pattern. The lights were alternating blue, green, red and orange in color. The flashing of the lights was so rapid that all colors could be seen at the same time.

The UFO and the pursuing F-4 were on a course taking them south of Tehran when suddenly another smaller brilliant object came out of the UFO..

link

Cheers.

Originally posted by irgust
reply to post by karl 12

 

I'm sorry if it sounds like a dumb question, but don't all aircraft have electric fuel pumps?

If all the electric for the gages is lost wouldn't the fuel pumps also stop working?

And don't they also need power for the hydraulic pumps to operate the flaps?

I think it's a pretty good question. As far as I know, the answer depends on the aircraft.

Some of the early F4's had problems with loose electrical connectors, which means it would be possible to lose power to parts of the aircraft without losing power to the entire aircraft. But as you suggest, if power was lost completely on a fly-by-wire aircraft, there would be problems with maneuvering or controlling the aircraft.

I looked at a picture of an F-4 fuel pump and it doesn't look electrical to me, it looks like it might be along these lines:

Fuel pump

Many jet engines, including rocket engines use a turbopump which is a centrifugal pump usually propelled by a gas turbine or in some cases a ram-air device (particularly in ramjet engines which lack a shaft).

If the fuel pump is powered by the turbine, I wouldn't call it an electric fuel pump.

reply to post by karl 12


There would have to be some type of shielding from the electromagnetic frequency that stopped the dc power, other wise the power on the ufo would be knocked out also.

But maybe not, they might not have things that operate on ac or dc power like we do.

Maybe they have different ways to generate em frequencies.
It would be nice to know what the different em frequencies might do.

It stands to reason to me because of all this electromagnetic activity that the ET's ( or the government) has found a way to use magnets as a major part of their propulsion devices - more so than just the magnets, coils and windings inside of a motor such as a direct drive motor. These craft are supposed to travel vast interstellar distances (or have a Mother ship close by). Could this be a clue to these devices are using the planets own magnetic field itself to fuel the propulsion system? Tesla used the ether. Could they be using the ether? Tesla's inventions also had lots of electromagnetic activity associated with them.

Consider; energy can never be created or destroyed (it only changes form) and everything is made of energy even the emptiness of space itself. How can you tap that energy to use it for a propulsion system that incorporates the use of magnets? It seems to me it must either use magnets and coils or electromagnets. Where else can you get electromagnetic activity from if not those two?

Originally posted by FireMoon
There's a case from 2009 here that just maybe offers us a glimpse into the mechanism by which this effect is caused?

Realizing that it was not an airplane or anything else he could think of, he got a little startled. However, as the object passed directly over him, his car died. Smith tried to open the electric windows to look at the object, but they would not work either. Getting very worried now, Smith attempted to use his cell phone, which was also not working. Not knowing whether to run or stay put, Smith opened his car door, still buckled in. He looked up at the object, saw the lights on the object turn off, and his car was suddenly running again.

2009 case involving car's electrical system closing down

Notice again the "impossible", where a car's ignition is turned off and then on as if by remote without the driver using the ignition key. Maybe, when people ask "Why do UFOs have lights"; here we see a reason?

Firemoon that's certainly an interesting one mate but the link doesn't seem to want to work - it's not the first time I've read of car engines restarting after the 'UFO' leaves the area and Keith Basterfield has put together a nice list below of Australian vehicle interference cases which do appear to have some similarities:

A particularly perplexing aspect of the UFO phenomenon is the sub-group of reports concerning effects on motor vehicles. Previous works aimed at this sub-group of "vehicle interference cases" have included the 1979 "Vehicle Interference Project" report by the British UFO Research Association, and the 1981 "UFO Reports Involving Vehicle Interference: A Catalogue and Data Analysis" by Mark Rodeghier, of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies.

A CATALOGUE OF AUSTRALIAN UFO VEHICLE INTERFERENCE CASES

There's also this cheeky case where a UFO broke a DVD player.

In Brazil an astonishing number of UFO sightings have been reported in the last few weeks. Ufologists are being inundated with emails from confused witnesses searching for answers.

One of the most intriguing sightings occurred in the mountains on the outskirts of the city of Urubici in the State of Santa Catarina in the south of Brazil.

On February 13, A Mr Genivaldo Rodrigues was standing outside his car taking a break from driving when he allegedly saw a silver disc zooming towards him. He grabbed his camera which he happened to have on him at the time and snapped a photo. He then saw another disc following the first and managed to capture an image of that too.

When he got back into the car his DVD player stopped working as did his GPS. After driving for a short time his car engine stopped on him twice for no apparent reason: he alleges this hadn’t ever occurred with this car before. He was able to re-set his GPS but his DVD player remains broken.

link

Photographs:

1, 2

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


Sorry I thought the fuel pumps were electric.
But now I have no idea how a em field would stop a jet engine.
Has anyone ever talked to the people that rebuild the engines, to find out if anything got magnetized.