This is why I don't believe a "god" created us.

reply to post by gurudsmer


Ah, forgot to give you some examples! (trust me when I say I have a lot more. This should suffice for now.)

A new species of mosquito, isolated in London's Underground, has speciated from Culex pipiens (Byrne and Nichols 1999; Nuttall 1998).

Helacyton gartleri is the HeLa cell culture, which evolved from a human cervical carcinoma in 1951. The culture grows indefinitely and has become widespread (Van Valen and Maiorana 1991).

A similar event appears to have happened with dogs relatively recently. Sticker's sarcoma, or canine transmissible venereal tumor, is caused by an organism genetically independent from its hosts but derived from a wolf or dog tumor (Zimmer 2006; Murgia et al. 2006).

Several new species of plants have arisen via polyploidy (when the chromosome count multiplies by two or more) (de Wet 1971). One example is Primula kewensis (Newton and Pellew 1929).

~Byrne, K. and R. A. Nichols, 1999. Culex pipiens in London Underground tunnels: differentiation between surface and subterranean populations. Heredity 82: 7-15.

~Nuttall, Nick, 1998. Stand clear of the Tube's 100-year-old super-bug. Times (London), 26 Aug. 1998, 1. www.gene.ch...

~ Van Valen, Leigh M. and Virginia C. Maiorana, 1991. HeLa, a new microbial species. Evolutionary Theory 10: 71-74.

~ Zimmer, Carl. 2006. A dead dog lives on (inside new dogs). scienceblogs.com...

~ Murgia, Claudio et al. 2006. Clonal origin and evolution of a transmissible cancer. Cell 126: 477-487.

~ Newton, W. C. F. and Caroline Pellew, 1929. Primula kewensis and its derivatives. Journal of Genetics 20(3): 405-467.

Human origin can always be up for discussion, by all means. We're all entitled to our personal beliefs and theories.However. There is NO set-in-stone proof regarding human origin. Evolution is not FACT. Creationism sure as hell isn't FACT.

You can say or believe whatever you want but the truth of the matter is that NONE of us. I repeat, NONE of us KNOW where humans originated from with absolute certainty no matter what you have to say on the subject. And that is not my opinion, that is the FACTS.

reply to post by unb3k44n7

I repeat, NONE of us KNOW where humans originated from with absolute certainty no matter what you have to say on the subject. And that is not my opinion, that is the FACTS.

I feel very comfortable saying this.

Humans came from human parents.

Human parents came from changes in a physical Universe.

The physical Universe didn't come from anything.

So my question is (and sorry if it has been asked before), if we are biological being created by mad scientists... Then who created those mad scientists? They evolved from Shrimps maybe?

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen
1. Look how they explain how man was created in the bible:

"Genesis 2:7 we read, And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul."

We are too complex to be the product of a magical god, or the product of dust for that matter,

If you really want some answers you should read this book,

SOURCE: www.amazon.com...

reply to post by iKnowWhatISeen


I look at it like one would imagine a physicist trying to explain complex scientific ideas to a child who just learned how to speak a couple words. If you have an infinite God who created our universe, clearly we only have to observe a tiny bit of his creation to understand his power is far greater than anything our mind can grasp. I believe He explained the creation of our world in a basic/simple way the first man had the capacity to understand.

Also, the same applies to the description of creating woman from the rib-bone of man. Consider the first man's understanding of the secrets of our existence is nowhere near what we know in modern days via science. Now imagine a scientist trying to explain something like human cloning to an indian from an uncontacted tribe in he Brazilian rainforest. Obviously, the scientist is going to try to explain the process is some basic way related to the limited understanding of the indian.

As for the concept of evolution, I am still confused as to why it is so hard for people to believe God would be intelligent enough to create/design creatures which adapt to their environments. IF anything, the fact organisms adapt and are programmed to adapt is further evidence for the existence of intelligent design.

I think the real confusion emanates from a lack of understanding of who God is as opposed to any lack of understanding on how he created the universe or how he explained it to ancient man. I believe a better understanding of WHO God is allows for a better understanding of what scripture means.

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen
This thread is over, people leaving comments now haven't read the whole conversation.

Cant take the heat it seems!

Why repeat myself a million times to some think they know it alls who are criticizing my OPINION, I can care less cause i fueled debate. I'll consider that a win

Now please remember what was said about how man evolved from a COMMON ANCESTOR and the difference between monkeys and apes, then you wont make the same mistake!

The thing is when i was growing up in school they taught me we came from monkeys, nothing about common ancestors. I have taking this knowledge in, when people come off hostile how is one not supposed to look bad, it's a shame.

It was an easy thing to check I mean on here people always say they never believe an official source with the internet FACTS are easy to check if you have kids make sure they dont go to the same school.

That's the good thing about being on here you get to see both sides, BELIEFS have no proof FACTS DO that's the best way of seeing what is most likely to be the best answer.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen

2. Evolution is a lie, it's only to give atheist something to believe. We came from monkeys so why are monkeys still here? When are they gonna turn into humans? Wheres the missing link? Monkeys can't talk, how did we change so drastically in such lil time?

1. We did not evolve from monkeys, we share a common ancestor, the last one being approximately 10 million years ago.
2. We can observe evolution.
3. #1 explains why monkeys are still here, you do not understand what evolution actually is.
4. There isn't a missing link.
5. We didn't change drastically over time, try millions and millions of years.
6. Monkeys can't talk because their evolutionary path hasn't given them the ability to do so.

4. You believe in the big bang? Kill yourself. It's just a THEORY, how would we know how the universe started? Plus it doesnt make sense, something can't be born from nothing, there was always something and there will always be something.

1. In science, "theory" doesn't mean what you're implying it does.
2. We can know all sorts of stuff about the universe by observing it.
3. It makes perfect sense, it wasn't something from nothing, yet again you do not even understand the theory.

Please educate yourself on a subject before talking about it.

Why did you have to ruin what started off as a good point by talking crap?

edit on 4-9-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

"something can't be born from nothing, there was always something and there will always be something."

Some day even YOU will come to realize that 0=0. I won't bother you at this point with details because you wouldn't understand anyway. But 0=0 is the essance of the big bang theory, at least for the most forward thinking folks.

reply to post by 44drake44

So my question is (and sorry if it has been asked before), if we are biological being created by mad scientists... Then who created those mad scientists? They evolved from Shrimps maybe?

Wut?

Are you insinuating that the "mad scientists" are aliens? If not who said anything about mad scientists?

The idea of human or alien or shrimp origin inevitably regresses to an entire origin point (even tho many kick and scream about it). So yes, something eternal, un-created. That does not give credence to any religious God, at all.

reply to post by MuonSpin

As for the concept of evolution, I am still confused as to why it is so hard for people to believe God would be intelligent enough to create/design creatures which adapt to their environments. IF anything, the fact organisms adapt and are programmed to adapt is further evidence for the existence of intelligent design.

Well first and foremost!

There is a very distinct difference arguing for God itself, and that of the god of any particular religion!

One can say God essentially created the natural process's of evolution etc etc etc. It would be something entirely different to claim in addition to that (Mormonism, or Islam was a description of the god that did that, for example).

So the difficulty in this concept as you said, is really in the religious peoples reluctance to understand that distinction. IMHO! It's very often the dogmatic religious voice that opposes it after all.

reply to post by Yosemite Sam

Some day even YOU will come to realize that 0=0. I won't bother you at this point with details because you wouldn't understand anyway. But 0=0 is the essance of the big bang theory, at least for the most forward thinking folks.

And by 'forward thinking folks' no doubt you mean Christians and not physicists

reply to post by Yosemite Sam




It wasn't 0 it was a very very very very very very very tiny spec of energy

Deleted.

I should not post replies when grumpy.

Sorry dudes,

Love to all. Yes, even you.

I believe that the bible is mainly metaphoric. I also believe that 'God' isn't what religious people think 'he' is. There are many clues to the truth in the bible but us people just can't see the wood for the trees.

Earth was probably created artificially and we are just like goldfish in a bowl trying to figure out how we got here and how to get out. We are too ignorant and egotistical to ever discover the truth.

Life as we know it is not a fraction of reality.

Our currant religions are all a farce.We have to look at ancient gods the ones that actually came down from the sky at least they worshiped slaved for or believed in what ever you want to call it actual living beings not a mystical magic never seen before god

*off topic trolling* Anyone noticed that if you reverse "God" you get "Dog" ? Maybe god evolved into dogs and watch after us that way... After all... What do we use to herd sheeps and keep them in their enclosses ? Dogs ! Think about it

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by iKnowWhatISeen
This thread is over, people leaving comments now haven't read the whole conversation.

Cant take the heat it seems!

Why repeat myself a million times to some think they know it alls who are criticizing my OPINION, I can care less cause i fueled debate. I'll consider that a win

Now please remember what was said about how man evolved from a COMMON ANCESTOR and the difference between monkeys and apes, then you wont make the same mistake!

The thing is when i was growing up in school they taught me we came from monkeys, nothing about common ancestors. I have taking this knowledge in, when people come off hostile how is one not supposed to look bad, it's a shame.

It was an easy thing to check I mean on here people always say they never believe an official source with the internet FACTS are easy to check if you have kids make sure they dont go to the same school.

That's the good thing about being on here you get to see both sides, BELIEFS have no proof FACTS DO that's the best way of seeing what is most likely to be the best answer.

common sense, which a lot of these people THINK they have. Just how they THINK they know FACT, the way I see it this world has been consumed by speculation.

reply to post by iKnowWhatISeen


You would have had more stars flags and support had you just stuck to god bashing. Once you questioned other beliefs by faith such as big bang and evolution your stock dropped like a stack of potatos.

Do not question such things as even a rational discussion against such hypothesis is taboo and they should not be challenged. kinda like when the concept of god and the church was not supposed to be questioned.