The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

reply to post by The GUT


Thanks Gut. There are some key terms and references in here that I have not yet researched. Thanks for the fresh (fresh to me) material I love coming across some things I have not yet delved into. Which is rare I might add (haha)

Originally posted by Saucerwench
reply to post by URmyHON

 

I had (and a friend and sibling) ufo-and-mib experiences back in the late '70's, and simultaneously, me and friend were majorly dabbling in occult stuff. We had an ongoing ouija board communication with an entity who often insisted "my planet is Mars", and my sister told me years later, that a demon attacked her in our basement at that timeperiod. My friend's phone would almost constantly ring while I was visiting, with no caller there. 2 mibs walked into our view, then vanished. And we were witnessing various ufos.
It would be interesting for Big Ufology (mufon......) to survey "abductees" about their paranormal experiences and dabblings, I'll bet theres a huge percent.

Such is why the majority of abduction phenomenon is associated with the Psychological paradigm.
Schizotypy or Schizotypal Personality Disorder (SPD)

Please note that there is such a thing as a "Healthy Schizotypy" as described in the first link.
It doesn't necessarily mean you're "crazy" in the sense that most people understand the term.
'Crazy' is not a clinical term.

Magical thinking; belief in ghosts, demons, aliens, imaginary creatures and beings, playing with occult, and even seeing/experiencing events and associations ascribed to such are all hallmarks of Schizotypal Personality Disorder as described in both first and second link.

This isn't to be confused with Schizophrenia, though there's some commonalities. SPDs can function and even thrive in some instances without much clinical assistance.
The experiences of an SPD are real in the sense that the SPD experiences things as real though they are not occurring in actual reality since the experiences are the subjective product of their Schizotypy effected mind.

The following paper may shed some light into some current scientific understanding regarding the abduction phenomenon: The Psychology of Alien Contact and Abduction Claims

The ordinary Nature of Space Alien Abduction Memories may also prove rather informative reading.

This is not meant as a criticism, or accusation. It's merely descriptive as how most such experiences can be described and attributed under the Psych-social paradigm.

Originally posted by Saucerwench
reply to post by Druscilla

 

You weren't there, maam, so keep your long shnoz out of my reply I was making to someone else. Kay, dearie?

edit on 1-9-2012 by Saucerwench because: stupid bimbo #.

As a matter of import, this is an open public forum.
Anything and everything said in the open public forum is everyone's business and prerogative to reply.
Anything anyone wishes to remain out of the public forum can readily be said in a direct U2U between anyone such you desire privy consort with.

You made a statement wondering about occult relations with abductees, This has been studied and commented on in academic/scientific circles. Thus, I gave you an answer.
If you don't like the answer, that's not my fault.

Please note I went out of my way to politely inform the post was not a personal criticism.
The post is informational.
Take it as you will.

Second and final time I'm saying this. PLEASE post with courtesy and stop bickering. Addressing one another is fine as long as it is on topic and polite.

If we need to walk away from the computer for awhile to make this happen, then do that. It's not worth the trouble to, well, get in trouble.

Hefficide
ATS Moderator

Originally posted by Druscilla

Such is why the majority of abduction phenomenon is associated with the Psychological paradigm.
Schizotypy or Schizotypal Personality Disorder (SPD)

This is not meant as a criticism, or accusation. It's merely descriptive as how most such experiences can be described and attributed under the Psych-social paradigm.

As far as I can read she used your post as a chance to include information pertaining to "the majority of abduction phenomenon" and then went out of her way to say that "this is not meant as a criticism or accusation"

This means that it was not directed at you specifically.

In the future if you feel a post is inflammatory, insulting, or personal - violates the ATS Terms & Conditions, or falls short of the Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link. policy - then please use the alert button to let staff know and do not reply in thread.

Remember... YOU are responsible for your own posts.

Now back on topic please.

Hefficide
ATS Moderator

reply to post by Saucerwench


Druscilla is a very well respected member of ATS and her intelligence is evident............as is yours.

Thought I'd get that in before 5.......4.......3........2.......1

Heff does his magic.

No............he got in before me

Originally posted by Druscilla

Magical thinking; belief in ghosts, demons, aliens, imaginary creatures and beings, playing with occult, and even seeing/experiencing events and associations ascribed to such are all hallmarks of Schizotypal Personality Disorder as described in both first and second link.

This isn't to be confused with Schizophrenia, though there's some commonalities. SPDs can function and even thrive in some instances without much clinical assistance.
The experiences of an SPD are real in the sense that the SPD experiences things as real though they are not occurring in actual reality since the experiences are the subjective product of their Schizotypy effected mind.

Druscilla - not to focus on the negative about psychiatry - read Thomas Szasz for that -- or study how the CIA dominates psychiatry (Ewen Cameron was CIA MKultra and head of the World Pschiatry Association, or some such).... so ignoring all that....

Let's update our science shall we? Magical thinking? the occult? Really -- is it all schizotypal?

Tell that to the Mayo Clinic doctors -- ranked one of the top world medical research hospitals.

External Qigong for Chronic Pain, Results from a peer-reviewed, randomized, controlled, clinical study Ann Vincent, Brent A. Bauer, et al Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota Jamia Hill, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minnesota Objective: "Chronic pain is highly prevalent in the general population. Adequate clinical management of chronic pain is an ongoing challenge and a purely pharmaceutical approach has proven inadequate. We investigated the efficacy of external qigong [Spring Forest Qigong technique] as an adjunctive treatment for chronic pain." Conclusions: "Subjects with chronic pain who received external qigong experienced reduction in pain intensity following each qigong treatment. This is especially impressive given the long duration of pain (>5 years) in the most of the participants," writes lead author Ann Vincent, MD, MBBS, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota.

See abstract here: Ann Vincent et al, Am. J. Chin. Med. 38, 695 (2010). External Qigong for Chronic Pain Ann Vincent Correspondence to: Dr. Ann Vincent, Division of General Internal Medicine, Mayo Clinic, 200 First St SW, Rochester, MN 55905, USA. Division of General Internal Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota, USA Jamia Hill The Department of Epidemiology University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA Kelly M. Kruk College of Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota, USA Stephen S. Cha The Division of Biomedical Informatics and Biostatistics, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota, USA Brent A. Bauer Division of General Internal Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota, USA

So are the medical doctors from the U of MN and Mayo Clinic schizotypal? Because they don't just BELIEVE in

occult, magical thinking

They have proven it works -- in a

very impressive

manner as external energy transmission against chronic pain not treatable for five years by Western medicine.

O.K. I present this as counterevidence to your claims about what constitutes schizoid thoughts, etc.

Now I realize that the "mainstream" culture will continue to be mind-controlled by materialist psychiatry -- despite quantum biology documenting quantum nonlocal entanglement in animal brains already -- bird migration, electric fish and according to some biologists, like Dr. Mae-Wan Ho -- humans.

She has tons of research online.

My first physics class was quantum physics at Hampshire College -- a harvard trained professor taught the course. He said people should take quantum physics first because quantum physics is the foundation of physics. But of course most take the wrong classical physics which is materialistic as the foundation of reality -- so people are brainwashed by incorrect science. Not to mention incorrect math and logic but I won't get into that now.

So I'm not saying that the people who claim to be abducted by aliens are not schizotypal -- by standard definitions of psychiatry -- sure - and it might be worse -- but on the other hand I am saying that occult energy is very real and so is magical thinking. If the alien abduction experience is connected to this then it should not be used to automatically discount the experience -- subjective? yes but more likely holographic which means external reality is a projection of internal energy -- an eternal interactive energy experience.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong

Yeah, about that:

External Qigong for Chronic Pain, Results from a peer-reviewed, randomized, controlled, clinical study Ann Vincent, Brent A. Bauer, et al Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota Jamia Hill, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minnesota Objective: "Chronic pain is highly prevalent in the general population. Adequate clinical management of chronic pain is an ongoing challenge and a purely pharmaceutical approach has proven inadequate. We investigated the efficacy of external qigong [Spring Forest Qigong technique] as an adjunctive treatment for chronic pain." Conclusions: "Subjects with chronic pain who received external qigong experienced reduction in pain intensity following each qigong treatment. This is especially impressive given the long duration of pain (>5 years) in the most of the participants," writes lead author Ann Vincent, MD, MBBS, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota.

You've been throwing around theories that sounded like you knew what you were talking about, so I decided to look into Qigong and I found out that it's for the Schizotypals that Dru referred to:

Investigating Woo: Spring Forest Qigong “research” Written by Colin Wright in Review, Science at October 29, 2011

This is a follow-up to my previous post investigating a study from the Mayo Clinic in collaboration with the University of Minnesota claiming that external qigong, a form of ancient Chinese medicine, is an effective treatment for chronic pain.  My critique apparently got on the nerves of at least one person, Drew Hempel, qigong enthusiast and woo extraordinaire, who offered his assurance regarding the validity of the study and its methodology.  Sadly, it’s not assurance that I am after—it’s evidence. 

...This is perhaps the most revealing, and certainly the most crippling aspect of the SFQ study.  One gets the impression that proponents of ancient Chinese wisdom, especially those purporting the validity of a force, or energy, called qi (also known as “chi”), desperately want to demonstrate its reality scientifically.  They have science envy... 

...Indeed, many believers of qi, and the use of qigong as a means to “regulate its flow” and achieve “dynamic mind-body integration,” whatever that means, claim that qigong is extremely effective in treating serious conditions and illnesses such as late-term cancer, multiple sclerosis, and Parkinson’s disease.  So, one would think, scientifically demonstrating qigong’s efficacy with respect to the amelioration of acute, chronic pain should be a cake-walk.

However, when actually given the chance to put up or shut up, most paranormal “researchers” fail to implement the most basic of techniques to ensure reliability of their results.  This failure usually arises due to the lack of adequate controls set up to help rule out alternative hypotheses.  The SFQ study is, sadly, no different.

...This is their idea of a control, and it is seriously inexcusable methodology.  This study is masquerading around as science, attempting to persuade people of the legitimacy of qigong, yet their actual intent—to deceive—is all too apparent due to the lack of adequate controls protecting against the placebo effect.

Can you tell me how the "science envy" of Qigong relates to psyops and ufos in non-woo-woo language please? Feel free to be as long-winded and incoherent as you want...

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


Something you neglect to highlight is that this Spring Forest Qigong treatment (in the study) is an adjunctive treatment; a tertiary aside in addition to primary care.

Note: In addition to Primary Care

Essentially, it's physical therapy coupled with meditative practices on top of primary care. Patients would bear out similar results in performing breathing exercises while doing a Tai Chi kata:


The efficacy demonstrated in your citation is an illustration regarding the benefit of adjunctive treatment programs enacted for providence of minimal impacting focused and structured physical activity effecting both patient distraction as well as minimizing recovery times and/or assisting in pain management.

In more layman terms: "Take this pill/shot/treatment AND exercise", as opposed to just "Take this pill/shot/treatment" indicates marked improvement in pain reduction as evidenced in this study.
It has nothing to do with metaphysical energies, hug-a-rainbow crystal power, or any sort of other 'magical thinking'.

Thus, your post has no relevance in retort to my post, which was already tangent from the main topic (though related as it applied to UFOs) where no further requirement for wandering off-topic was necessary.

Should you care to cite references and appropriate documentation regarding the topic of The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs or otherwise comment in civilized polite discussion regarding the actual topic under discussion, then such response may very well hold legitimate relevance to the total conversation.

Should you wish to enjoy further debate regarding Eastern and Western approaches to medicine, please feel free to start a thread relevant for such discussion.

My research has taken a surprising turn of events. It seems I have been sorely mistaken. Both Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green and Col. John B. Alexander are outstanding members of the intelligence community after all.

I just trashed all my misguided research and files and hit empty. This topic is one I won't be revisiting.

Thank you all for your participation and see ya around, God willing.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong

Awesome video!

It makes no sense…..unless…..they’ve discovered something absolutely huge about the nature of reality. Matrix-like huge. (No, not THE Matrix, “Matrix-like.”) What if they have discovered that Reality, i.e.: Capital-R Reality, is far different than we suppose? What if our own individual purpose on this Earth is not a nuts and bolts dust to dust existence, but involves issues far greater and more gut-wrenching and potentially de-stabilizing information than we could possibly imagine?

Well, yes, this is where I end up with it. You can go some pretty weird places from there: we are part of a ID food web, we are hatchling "Gods", we are little Quantum calculating machines spitting out a ticker tape reality, and so on and so forth... Much is suggested, nothing is known.

And I think the Spooks are almost as much in the dark as the rest of us, judging by the hysterical quality of the smoke bomb campaign. Two layers, both intentional:

1. "We don't know stuff."
2. "We totally do know stuff, but we think you just aren't ready for it."

I propose a third layer:

"What little we know scares the almighty existential piss out of us. If we're having a hard time not acting like newly beheaded chickens, we certainly aren't about to consider the possibility that the American public, who we perceive as overgrown children, will handle it any better. Moreover, we don't want to look like a bunch of idiots in front of the international community by copping to our failure to get a grip on the phenom."

post by Druscilla[/url]

It's Wonder-Woman's invisible jet. We have it. Everyone knows we have it. It's cool. But, you can't see it since it's secret.

Kewl analogy! Completely barking and off topic but yet a kewl analogy...of something?

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by schuyler

 

Keeping the secret in and of itself, as trivial as it sounds, has become a marriage not easily divorced from, and still immensely enjoyable for the whole intrigue of it above all other intrigues.

Then again, that is, if there is a secret at all.of something may very well just be the endless machinations of intelligence circles playing with themselves, among themselves, involving the unwitting public as all part of some big game of psyop smoke and mirrors.

Yeah, the psychosexual element rings sadly true. I think what was intended to be conveyed was the idea of some glamorous cool kids club of spies, where one keeps a secret because it feels so awesome. But the passages above tell another story.

Coercion and negatively reinforced in-group dynamics.