The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

reply to post by Clairacoustique


Mmmmm....maybe. I suppose it's possible that there are hidden agencies (I think it's very probable that there are "hidden" divisions that operate under the umbrella of other agencies) but I think that the biggest problem with this is that agencies have to have arms and hands. In order to affect the world we live in, they cannot be so secluded as to be undetectable and invisible.

Originally posted by Clairacoustique
It's not the agencies you know and hear about wherein lies the core of the problem you speak.

You're very good at making short, snarky and dismissive comments about other people's theories and research but you never present any of your own.

And it's a shame because from your brief posts you seem to imply you know more than everyone else but never share that no doubt incredibly vast knowledge you possess on these subjects.

No single individual possessing any whatsoever crucially important and true intel about the connections between ET, the military, the government or even things like the MJ12 documents, could publicly disseminate this kind of information and live another day.

Taking this into any equation will make things fairly easy: Anyone you see talking infront of a video camera, claiming to possess knowledge about above mentioned topics who is still alive the next day is a liar.

People who know don't talk. People who talk don't know.

@ OP: The biggest riddle of them all is Steven Greer to me. No doubt he's a complete rip-off with his alien ambassador bullpoop, but I vividly remember that it was *his* Disclosure Conference in 2001 in the National Press Club in Washington that finally convinced me to believe that UFO's are real because you simply can not discuss these witnesses away, it's the most credible testimony *ever* published and recorded. So I simply don't get the whole Greer story, any analysis like this one here would be most interesting.

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
reply to post by Clairacoustique

 

Mmmmm....maybe. I suppose it's possible that there are hidden agencies (I think it's very probable that there are "hidden" divisions that operate under the umbrella of other agencies) but I think that the biggest problem with this is that agencies have to have arms and hands. In order to affect the world we live in, they cannot be so secluded as to be undetectable and invisible.

The "possibility" that there exists publicly unknown intelligence and military operations - including their organizations that create, oversee and conclude - is 100% level of fact.

Originally posted by Clairacoustique


Are you implying that this thread is ultimately bullchips?

Quite the contrary. I find it highly interesting but in my opinion the OP is making it too hard for himself determining the result

Originally posted by H1ght3chHippie
Quite the contrary. I find it highly interesting but in my opinion the OP is making it too hard for himself determining the result

That assumes that, with the information currently available to the public, we can determine the answers posed by the OP and others on questions of intelligence involvement with the UFO research field.

Actually I suspect that not even (some in) intelligence can absolutely discern what's real and what's fabricated.

Interesting though highly mysterious posts going on. But I absolutely do think we can make some progress here. I've only just begun.

Originally posted by The GUT But I absolutely do think we can make some progress here. I've only just begun

"Ahhh sooo!"

reply to post by The GUT


Whew. There is a lot here. I confess I only have time to do a quick skim right now, but plan on getting into this more deeply when I can. Thank you for putting this together.

peace,
AB

Originally posted by TheCh0de
the disclosure project 2001 National Press Club Event: On Wednesday, May 9th, 2001, over twenty military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses came forward at the National Press Club in Washington, DC to establish the reality of UFOs or extraterrestrial vehicles, extraterrestrial life forms, and resulting advanced energy and propulsion technologies. The weight of this first-hand testimony, along with supporting government documentation and other evidence, will establish without any doubt the reality of these phenomena.

I think if you go back and listen to that press conference again, you may be disappointed. There were a total of 19 witnesses, but when you look at what they said they saw, few saw anything at all.

John Cipher, an actor in Hill Street Blues was there to kick off the conference. Steven Greer spoke for a few minutes, but not as a witness. the speakers were:

1, John Callahan, FAA Accidents & Investigations
He tells the story of the 1986 JAL sighting and said some of the presidents men had a meeting about it. He didn’t see anything himself.

2. Lt Col Charles Brown, USAF
A member of AFOSI basically says he believes there's something to it, but hasn’t seen anything himself.

3. Michael Smith, USAF Sgt
He worked air traffic control at Klamath Falls, OR and tracked a UFO at 80,000 feet several times. This was a radar blip.

4. Enrique Kolbeck, Mexican Air traffic controller
He detected 15 objects on radar.

5. Graham Bethune, USN
He says in 1951 he saw a UFO that tailed him

6. Dan Willis, USN
He was in a code room in San Francisco in 1969 when he says he saw a message from a ship in the Gulf of Alaska that was reporting a large UFO coming out of the water.

7. Don Phillips, USAF + CIA
He worked on the SR-71 project and says there was a predecessor of that plane designed for the CIA for tracking UFOs. He once saw some fast lights.

8. Robert Salas, USAF Captain
This is the Maelstrom story where he says UFOs knocked some missiles offline. The story has become very controversial recently with “dueling witnesses.”

9. Dwayne Arnesson, USAF Lt. Col.
Had 3 experiences consisting of his having seen message traffic to the effect that a UFO had crashed in Spitzbergen, Norway, that ICBMs had been deactivated (see above), and that UFOs had been seen around nukes. He personally saw nothing.

10. Harland Bentley, USA PFC
He was working on a Nike base when he says he thinks a UFO crashed and the next day there were 12-15 UFOs in the sky. Ten years later he says he heard an astronaut radio transmission from a moon shot that mentioned a Bogey.

11. John Maynard, USA SFC
He says he saw some documents that mentioned UFOs and had some pictures. He also vehemently says there is a Shadow Government.

12. Karl Wolf, USAF Sgt
He says a photographic technician showed him a picture of a lunar base when he was in a dark room to service some equipment.

13. Donna Hare, NASA
She says a technician showed her a photo of a round dot with a shadow taken on Earth. He told her they regularly airbrushed out stuff like that. She also tells a story she heard that a guard was told to burn some UFO pictures, but he peeked and was beat up by another guard. She also says the astronauts spoke of a UFO on the moon when hey were in quarantine.

14. Larry Warren, USAF
He tells the Bentwaters story. Unclear if he actually saw anything.

15. George Filer, III, USAF pilot, MUFON East Director
He says London air traffic control asked him to chase a UFO. He then relates the Tehran F-4 incident and the Ft. Dix alien who got shot incident, neither of which he was at.

16. Clifford Stone, USA SFC
He says he was on several crash retrieval teams where they recovered aliens and that there are 57 varieties of aliens visiting Earth.

17. Mark McCandlish, USAF artist
Saw a UFO when he was a kid. Saw a working “Alien Reproduction Vehicle” at an air show and drew a picture of it.

18. Daniel Sheehan, lawyer
Tells the story of carter asking for UFO material and Bush, Sr. refusing. He turned to the Congressional Research Service where he saw some symbols on a picture of a UFO and managed to trace them. He also worked for the Jesuits and had contacts with the Vatican which refused to disclose anything to him

19. Carol Rosin
She worked with von Braun who told her we should not weaponize space.

When you look at what these people are saying, few of them saw anything. many of them are telling third party stories they heard from someone else. Only a couple of them actually saw a UFO. Most of the "sightings" were of pictures, radar blips, or message traffic. Some of them, such as Clifford Stone, have severe credibility problems, and some, like Carol Rosin, are just political and aren't witness to anything.

The conference was certainly well-orchestrated, but when you look at what the witnesses actually said, it isn't all that impressive with quite a lot of hearsay.

reply to post by nomadros

I'm not wanting to appear troll like here, but I know a bit about the world in question in this thread (if you get my drift) and even if people wanted to go off reservation and find stuff out, they couldn't. It is a world of compartments within compartments and you only know a little of what happens within you compartment.

Then you must include the disinformation in and among compartments.

To wit, topical threads with fluffy subject matters [ahem] are funsies, all in all, but absolutely worthless in driving to the bottom of much of anything black ops. And therein lies the core.

Originally posted by Clairacoustique

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
reply to post by Clairacoustique

 

Mmmmm....maybe. I suppose it's possible that there are hidden agencies (I think it's very probable that there are "hidden" divisions that operate under the umbrella of other agencies) but I think that the biggest problem with this is that agencies have to have arms and hands. In order to affect the world we live in, they cannot be so secluded as to be undetectable and invisible.

The "possibility" that there exists publicly unknown intelligence and military operations - including their organizations that create, oversee and conclude - is 100% level of fact.

I'm assuming you're not referring to the more "mundane" secret agencies that you would find treated as 100% fact in a newspaper article. Outside of the things I've already mentioned (hidden departments, unacknowledged units like Delta Force and CIA Special Actives Division, etc. etc.) I've never seen 100% proof of such agencies, though I'm not closed to the possibility that they exist. Would you be so kind as be more specific, and tell me exactly what organizations you are referring to, along with providing evidence?

Thanks!

The Gut -- you say you're a believer?

Is this blind faith? I'm just curious -- is this an existential leap of faith as Kierkegaard recommends for Xstianity?

Gee I mean have you had "signs"?

Or is your belief based on evidence?

Is your belief in E.T.s? Physical bodies from outerspace?

Or is your belief in "spirits" that can manifest in any form?

Maybe I'm missing something - sorry if I missed your information.

I'm just curious -- you seem to be able to astutely work the available information and are aware of the CIA disinformation but you say you are still a believer.

So. Am I missing something? Despite the CIA disinformation you think there is evidence worthy of "belief"?

Can you share this evidence or post the link where you share it? thanks

The "possibility" that there exists publicly unknown intelligence and military operations - including their organizations that create, oversee and conclude - is 100% level of fact. ]

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
Outside of the things I've already mentioned (hidden departments, unacknowledged units like Delta Force and CIA Special Actives Division, etc. etc.) I've never seen 100% proof of such agencies, though I'm not closed to the possibility that they exist. Would you be so kind as be more specific, and tell me exactly what organizations you are referring to, along with providing evidence?

Thanks!

I wouldn't think of boring you with silly, anecdotal history; no, not me.

Originally posted by Clairacoustique
I stringently suggest that the inherent superficiality of this so-called "analysis" moots the value of the thread to entertainment only.

Posters should be required to sit with laps full of buttery popcorn.

That was a GREAT slam. Seriously, I've read it a few times and got a good chuckle each time. Who wrote it for you?

However, we're gonna use the same reasoning we've been using and see what we can extrapolate.

Since you infer some knowledge and connection to the shadow world, and since I know who you are, and yet you add nothing of substance to the conversation we can infer one of two things:

1.) That you are doing a very ineffectual job at trolling and you don't know squat, or

2.) You actually are "connected" and I'm on the right track.

Either option doesn't speak to you being very effective or of much concern. You're actually more of help, albeit unintentionally, than you can comprehend. Keep up the good work.

To those who are contributing: Thank you & Stick around...things are gonna heat up.

reply to post by Clairacoustique


I guess I'll take that as a no then
But, if you decide to change your mind, you know where to find me.