Can India liberate Tibet if it wanted to?

YEP YEP. You Indians sure are lacking in the aircraft forum with all the critisizing and the negative comments. LCA has been developing for so long but why is it still not in service??? Oh I guess Indians are too afraid that it might fall apart during real combat or you just can't find the parts to fit into your paper tiger? MCA MCA......How many hundred years is that gonna take to develope? Yes Yes, Indeed very lacking......

[edit on 31-10-2004 by COWlan]

Originally posted by Hawkssss
yeah, why don't you explain it to us what you have done sine you are such an expert ??? Like what LCA, which has all but failed over 10 years. And the Pak-Fa is a russian project. MCA is still on the drawing board. So what have you made so far and how and where there is any indication of your technical prowess?

@Howrunner,

Brasil is doing rather well in civil aviation with Braer (spelling) selling many small to medium-sized jets. But, in terms of military stuff, you are no where near where russia is. Can you explain how and what Brasil will and has surpassed russia in term os military industry???.

[edit on 31-10-2004 by Hawkssss]

[edit on 31-10-2004 by Hawkssss]

Did I say I was Brazilian?

I wasn't talking about military.
But I will.
A quick history lesson for you. In the 19th C Russia was known as the "great bear" and sometimes as the "sleeping bear". Those "in the know" would speak in awe of what would happen when Russia awoke. Russia never awoke. The Czar's Russia was so moribund they lost to the Germans and the Bolsheviks. Anyone with their eyes open would have seen it coming after the drubbing the Japanese handed them in 1904.
One hundred years later and Russia hasn't changed. The Soviet Union won exactly one war. They used to call it the "Great Patriotic War". They ran out of Afghanistan and they're doing as spectacularly well in Chechnya now that they're "Russian" not "Soviet".
You obviously learned your lessons from them well, as much like the Chinese all their tanks did was kill protesters, except they killed Hungarians, not uni students.

As for Brazil and Braer, perhaps you missed the inaugural flight of India's new exec-jet. It's a funky little twin pusher-turboprop.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Please, my indian friend, put aside your patritism and think about it. Within a decade, China will most likely achieve parity with the Russians and the Europeans in almost all areas and only lag the Americans. Where do you think India will stand?

Acheiving parity with the Russians ain't that much to brag about. They're an enonomic basket case that is rapidly going backwards in terms of democratic reforms. They can't solve Chechnya and their solution to economic problems is to lock up Khordokiovsky. Soon Brazil will acheive parity with the Russians...

I must say that you are not very well educated in Russian stuff. But i will not start it in this thread cause its not ment for this. If you want to discuss this start another thread and I might educate you alittle. Or maybe you are just to closed minded.

Out,
Russian

Originally posted by Pavel
But if it does India will fuk up China. India's millitary is allot more modernized, and will probablly have the suport of the west starting with U.K., if there is good reason for the war.

Please you are a very closed-minded person. I am very sorry to have a person with the same name as me so clsed minded. India has the support of Dell and other computer companies. Also they have support so some countries. USA has a military ban on India for bulding Nukes. But China is a huge trade partner of USA. China is much needed to USA and it is in USAs interest to have China growing economicaly. I am not trying to say that USA would stand on Indias side. USA and others would try stop the war. Also remember we are talking about India invading China not the other way around. Why do you think USA puts perssure on Tawian so they dont try to gain independance?

Out,
Russian

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Please, my indian friend, put aside your patritism and think about it. Within a decade, China will most likely achieve parity with the Russians and the Europeans in almost all areas and only lag the Americans. Where do you think India will stand?

Acheiving parity with the Russians ain't that much to brag about. They're an enonomic basket case that is rapidly going backwards in terms of democratic reforms. They can't solve Chechnya and their solution to economic problems is to lock up Khordokiovsky. Soon Brazil will acheive parity with the Russians...

I must say that you are not very well educated in Russian stuff. But i will not start it in this thread cause its not ment for this. If you want to discuss this start another thread and I might educate you alittle. Or maybe you are just to closed minded.

Out,
Russian

Not at all. Happy to chat...

Hmm...How good can the Indian army be?IMHO,Chinese troops are better trained than Indian troops.India is a third-rate country,and poses no threat to China.If India ever does try to take over Tibet,China will squash it.The Indian air force is nicknamed the "Flying Coffin" for a good reason,all their aircraft are flying pieces of poo

Being a pluralistic democracy all the info you want about India is available. Being an oligarchic monopoly China keep their info secret.
The Indians nick-named it the flying coffin themselves. A lot like the Paras calling the RMCs "Crap-hats".
The Russians killed the general commanding the Strategic Rocket Forces with a launch malfunction back in the old USSR days and covered it up, do you think the Chinese are going to shout their failures to the world?
Plus, how good are the PLAAF boys? One of them flew into a slow-moving Elint sniffer, for god's sake. That would be like me driving an AC Cobra under a Semi when nothing else was on the freeway.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Hmm...How good can the Indian army be?IMHO,Chinese troops are better trained than Indian troops.India is a third-rate country,and poses no threat to China.If India ever does try to take over Tibet,China will squash it.The Indian air force is nicknamed the "Flying Coffin" for a good reason,all their aircraft are flying pieces of poo

Look you closed mind person... Indian airforce is train better then the Chinese one and their army is nowhere close to being a third rate army. India has an advanced military but their ONLY problem is that they dont have large numbers of the aadvanced military.

Out,
Russian

Originally posted by Hawkssss
yeah, why don't you explain it to us what you have done sine you are such an expert ??? Like what LCA, which has all but failed over 10 years. And the Pak-Fa is a russian project. MCA is still on the drawing board. So what have you made so far and how and where there is any indication of your technical prowess?

Like I said...go to the aircraft forum and read stealth spys posts on the LCA, very informative...

The time taken for the LCA is well worth its the first of its kind in many ways.Im sorry but we take like to take care while developing our defence projects, not turn one model out every year like a cell phone!!...

And well I may not be much of an expert but im quoting one of your nationals exhibiting his aircraft expertise in the aircraft forum...

"To say the truth, I think the LCA is a really ugly plane. In the pictures I can see RUST, that shows how good the project is going."

"rust".....im so sorry , you guys are the 'real' experts!!
The 'wax n shine' experts that is!!

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Being a pluralistic democracy all the info you want about India is available. Being an oligarchic monopoly China keep their info secret.
The Indians nick-named it the flying coffin themselves. A lot like the Paras calling the RMCs "Crap-hats".
The Russians killed the general commanding the Strategic Rocket Forces with a launch malfunction back in the old USSR days and covered it up, do you think the Chinese are going to shout their failures to the world?
.

They don't get this, the chicoms on this forums..no democracy means no failures publicised..period!

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Plus, how good are the PLAAF boys? One of them flew into a slow-moving Elint sniffer, for god's sake. That would be like me driving an AC Cobra under a Semi when nothing else was on the freeway

Again, i've made the same point before!!...Thats the only "media exposure" the PLAAF has got in recent times!! You people 'proud' of that? That showed pilot error 100%, and the chinese government couldn't cover it up so they made a martyr out of the poor shorte-sighted bloke who flew that jet!!
The failures in the IAF have been publicised, that doesn't mean that the PLAAF has a better flight safety record.

[edit on 2-11-2004 by Daedalus3]

Currently, the LCA is being plagued with problems from engine malfunctions and set backs on its radar developement. LCA's military induction time is being set back to 2009 while China's J-10 is already in production of three a month (which I believe is a fake number). In a year or two China's HQ-15, HQ-16 and HQ-17 will be in full production at $10 million per battalion (or battery, forgot the jargon) which is a HELL lot cheaper than the S-300 and will have similar performance to it if not better.

The LCA is a defence aircraft, not a front line fighter which means it shouldn't even be considered fighting in China. The Su-30s you guys got will have to do that. And I believe 40 Su-30s will not deal catastrophic damage. The first 50 J-10s are already deployed in YunNan which is near the Indian border.

On tank technology, China is the first country in the world to actually field a laser dazzler which according to some sites will provide the T-98s with an advantage over any tank on earth.

You know what, lets stop talking about the future superpowers waging war over each other. It is already certain that China is the next super power where India has a good chance at it. Lets make the whole Asia form an aliance and kick the hell out of someother country

[edit on 2-11-2004 by COWlan]

How about,there is no reason for India to go into Tibet just like that,they are happy just as they are,and "liberating" it would just be like Iraq and Kuwait in Gulf War I.In this case,I reckon the US would do something nasty about it.

[edit on 2/11/04 by W4rl0rD]

it's really funny for the indians to dream about getting Tibet .lol For god's sake, they can't even control kashmir against a much weaker Pakistan. How are they going to deal with China?

BTW, China just surpassed Japan as the world's 3rd largest trading nation after US and Germany and India is not even in the top 20. lol And they think they can beat china. lol

Ven the tiny ireland has more global trades than the mighty india just like the little ireland has more olympic medals than the mighty india. lol


ank // country // Total trade // Exports of goods and services // Imports of goods and services // balance of goods and services (in bn$ at medium 2003 exchange rate)


1 Etats-Unis 2543,06 / 1011,5 / 1531,6 / -520
USA

2 Allemagne 1636,41 / 863,9 / 772,5 / 91
Germany

3 Chine (avec HK) 1065,78 / 548,5 / 517,3 / 31

4 Japon 1035,65 / 542,4 / 493,2 / 49

5 France 959,83 / 485,6 / 474,2 / 11

6 Royaume-Uni 957,07 / 448,0 / 509,1 / -61

7 Italie 729,56 / 364,8 / 364,8 / 0

8 Pays-Bas 684,77 / 357,1 / 327,7 / 29

9 Canada 609,66 / 314,6 / 295,0 / 20

10 Belgique 574,59 / 297,7 / 276,9 / 21

11 Espagne 474,58 / 228,0 / 246,6 / -19

12 Cor�e, R�publique de 442,94 / 225,1 / 217,8 / 7

13 Mexique 374,2 / 178,0 / 196,2 / -18

14 Singapour 329,66 / 174,5 / 155,1 / 19

15 Taipei chinois 325,45 / 173,3 / 152,2 / 21

16 Autriche 279,65 / 138,8 / 140,8 / -2

17 Russie, F�d�ration de 251,01 / 150,3 / 100,7 / 50

18 Suisse 245,59 / 131,4 / 114,2 / 17

19 Su�de 242,74 / 131,5 / 111,2 / 20

20 Irlande 232,01 / 128,4 / 103,6 / 25




[edit on 2-11-2004 by Hawkssss]

IMHO,what the Indians say in this post is biased crap,i mean,how the hell can they get Tibet without China taking proper military action and stuffing the hell out of them?Please,don't think your "GREAT" country is so "GREAT",You are ignorant enough to think you can take on China.If you really got Tibet,i bet the US would side with China,with the UN also supporting them.

Originally posted by COWlan

You know what, lets stop talking about the future superpowers waging war over each other. It is already certain that China is the next super power where India has a good chance at it. Lets make the whole Asia form an aliance and kick the hell out of someother country

[edit on 2-11-2004 by COWlan]

Thats what i've been trying to say since the very beginning. It helps my -India-China-Russia axis scenario too!! There should be regional unity in this forum. Please explain this to your "enraged'' chicom buddies!!

How can you not be "enraged" after reading BS like this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

wow whats that stink? oh, still rolling in the pathetic chicom pooh.

Originally posted by aryaputhra
wow whats that stink? oh, still rolling in the pathetic chicom pooh.

don't tell me i stink.Its your funny Indian fragrance

I�ve been seeing a trend here that has been put forth by non-western posters that in the event of a Indo-China conflict the west will support China politically at least. Here are my reasons why that will not be the case:

1). China is not a democracy( no freedom of speech, opinion etc..)

2). China has ICBMs a weapon that poses an immense threat to no other entity except the west. The west does not take to that lightly.

3). China has always had a sense of �unknown� and predicting its moves and reactions have been a problem. The xenophobia it exhibits in various aspects does not rub well with the western powers.

4). China has stolen military tech from the US since the dawn of its military advancements..SLBM tech, ICBM tech come to mind instantly. India on the other hand has only contributed to the technical prowess the US is able to exhibit today. (>25% of NASA is of Indian orgin).

5). Although I don�t approve of thisits a fact. The next on the list of the American fanatic�s hatelist after the muslim, is the chinaman. They deem you to be sinister, untrustworthy�and that�s a fact not a dissent from my behalf. Its not the same with Indians. Public opinion in western countries will decide their stance on this war. It already happened for countires like France and Germany vis-�-vis Iraq.

Hence nobody will support China overtly in this war.
Also the point one makes about �China being invaded� is flawed. If we are to hypothesize this war, then we must do it correctly. China has an expansionist policy, not India. India would not go to war with China (esp start one) unless it had good reason. And this reason would be based on its democratic constitution. So the worst the west could do in this situation w.r.t. India is sit on the fence. They will definitely not help any country overtly, but covert assistance is another matter. Plus if the Chinese don�t know that then the west can feign non-alignment.

Same with Russia. Russia is not in the position to help anybody now, though it will definitely side India over China. Russia is the only country in the world who has backed India on Kashmir ever since the problem started. Similarly we�ve done the same for Chechnya. India is the only formidable ally Russia has ever had an so a weak India is not in Russian interests. They�ve �helped� us in every military conflict, including the time when the Americans brought the seventh fleet in to the bay of Bengal in the 71 Indo-Pak war to try and scare India. The russians used warned that they would thwart any attempt made by the americans to undermine Indias success in that war. They even brought akulas into they bay to pester the 7th fleet. Risking nuclear war with the US over a non-communist ally (that time) is the greatest risk/overture Russia(USSR) could have made.
Their help may not be overt but it will be there DEFINITELY .

This also follows suit for all of south-east Asia and most importantly Japan/South Korea. They will both definitely take India�s side.
And now who will support china? Pakistan and north korea?!!)

Even though we are hypothesizing, lets be realistic, in times of war one does not prioritize w.r.t. business partners, one prioritizes w.r.t. to trust, faith and reason.

The fact is if such a war happens(theoretically of course! ) IMHO most western countries will definitely support India covertly. Overtly I don�t know, and honestly I doubt, but covertly (real time intelligence, logistics, maintenance, rearming etc.)

I�d like to hear what western posters would have to say about my opinions here�


[edit on 2-11-2004 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 2-11-2004 by Daedalus3]