The catch all mental health disorder... Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)

reply to post by VforVendettea

Why don't they just call it, (CBU) Can't Be Used and stop with the games. .

Well, I think they are calling it "special needs" in the schools. They are in line for the "special treatment" when the time is right (my opinion of course...based on oh.....history).

Reply to post by redhorse

Ummmmmm. If you study psychology at the graduate level, you have to pick a concentration, that concentration along with your field work and research, will determine what population you end up working with, what type of counseling you practice, etc. All of what you learn is concrete. ODD is not an umbrella diagnosis for anything. It just usually occurs with other disorders. Similar to how most people with OCD also have an anxiety disorder.


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Reply to post by ScatterBrain

I feel like parents are to blame for what you are referring to. I mean a child may be diagnosed with ADD but nobody looks at the childs diet. A change in the diet could improve concentration and cut down on hyperactivity. Its the parents job to protect their kids and make sure they are taking the best course of action. Outside of that though, every adult has a choice of treatment. You can seek counseling without seeing a psychiatrist. Most people who are prescribed anti depressants are not expected to stay on them long term. They are usually supposed to provide a boost while counseling handles the dirty work.


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reply to post by Evil_Santa


Hi Evil_Santa,

I understand your search and desire to heal yourself. I think many who go into the field do so because of their own desire to understand and to also help themselves and problems in their own life.

I had a child (2nd son) who at 3 years old would gouge his face bloody in the middle of the night and I can still remember the screams as if he was being slaughtered right there in his bed. In fact, he carried those deep, long scars on his face all of his childhood. I also remember his words to me when he was about 5 yrs old, "When I grow up, I am going to take a knife and cut you up" (where did he get this stuff right?) . I remember when he was 17 yrs old, I saw a little trace of a scare still. It was a nightmare indeed.

But I want you to know something, when the doctor gave me the drugs to give to him AND I administered them the first day, I saw what the drugs did to him AND I knew that was not right either. I raised that child without the drugs and it required much time, effort,discipline, philosophy,education and supervision.... I call it love for short. I wouldn't have the space on this page to describe how wonderful and loving he turned out to be. It would take longer to go into detail on what all I had to do to turn this little murderer (the doctors said he was a danger to our family) into the sincere and loving person he is today.

Now I understand and know that there are many brain injuries that cannot be resolved by the methods I used but, I do see much harm caused by pumping our kids with drugs for reasons that are clearly suspect.

I don't know how many parents have a serious talk with their doctor about the long term effects these drugs have on the child but they should. An honest doctor with limited knowledge will admit he does not know. A honest doctor who has done his homework on the matter will admit there is a trade off that occurs and their are repercussions in the long term that come from medicating their child with these drugs for a prolonged period of time.

Good luck to you evil santa

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

 

I'm sorry to hear about such a traumatic childhood, and I have experiences with similar parental figures - my mom was a borderline sociopath with hardcore narcissistic and manipulative tenancies.

You should know that sociopaths don't have a definitive diagnosis in the DSM and they fall into the anti-social personality disorder category which has traditionally been considered untreatable, however recent studies using neurofeedback (retraining how brainwaves function) is showing extremely promising results towards treating this disorder.

The link below goes over 13 individuals who went through 80 - 120 sessions, and 12 of the 13 showed significant improvements (50% or better on psychotic symptoms) in personality testing, after neurofeedback therapy.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

What i'm saying is that the field of neurology and psychology is rapidly advancing using objective based tests to measure abnormal ways that the brain functions, and this data is being applied through objective based therapy to treat conditions without drugs or talk therapy. ODD is a legitimate disorder, but unless one is trained in how-to diagnose someone based on an all-encompassing picture of that person's behavior (which is almost impossible in a 60 min interview) just reading the symptoms and applying a diagnosis of a condition can be given to just about anyone. Everyone shows symptoms of just about anything that's listed in the DSM, but it's when those symptoms become a focus point of a person's life, and causes them significant duress due to it, does it become a disorder.

edit on 28-8-2012 by Evil_Santa because: (no reason given)

lol
i'm aware that "sociopaths don't have a definitive diagnosis"
i've had bibliophilia since i learned how to read: daddy's library remember?
sociopath is what came closest, my original diagnosis was monster,
based on the innescapable conclusion that dad was a murderer and if i wasn't carefull
i'd be the next member of the family to get it.
as for trauma...


mmmmmmm.... nahh

i simply swore to myself that i wasn't going to be a victim, period.

in any case i was raised by my grandma
most of my childhood, i only lived with dad a couple of years when i was 6

alas, that neurofeedback stuff [studied it back in the late 70's early 80's.
you do know that a lot of that stuff was more related to Psi-research?]
comes too late for dad, he made the mistake of demanding that grandma, on her deathbed,
[according to the doctors and they were wrong like 20 times too] "hurry up and die already"
not knowing witnesses including myself were entering the ICU.
well grandma came back from it and told him she'd be burying him
6 months later it all came true
she outlived him by 2 years


and none of those witnesses/relatives who'd called me crazy
since i was a kid for telling them what was what re dad
ever said sorry
oh well, at least they've never called me crazy again

i see you've been searching for understanding re your mom
similar story here
but went beyond the psych books into shamanism and psychonautics
my specialization [ in psych.] is Metamorphosis or as you'd call it MPD and the nature of identity

though i never fully dissasociated, once upon a time, i was 5 people at once,
perhaps because i used method acting as a springboard

so take it from one who knows
you cannot be Objective about the Subjective
nor will Mind, Imagination, the Soul, or Spirit
ever show up on a scope, only secondary resonance effects within the brain
again, until you make the inner journey, you wont find true answers
just their shadows on the wall of the cave


look up dialectic materialism: the neuroscientific view is amazingly similar
sort of like a repackeged version
toss in genetic predestination [eugenicist tripe]

and its almost as if the 21st century is going to be a repeat of the 20th
concerning parapolitics and ponerology




this neurfeedback stuff you linked looks promising
basically the patient is being guided to heal him[her]self

instead of being "fixed" according to some arbitrary [and changing] standard

]reply to post by OptimusSubprime






I think I got it too...

It looks like Obama has the medical industry in his back pocket now; disagree with the one and they label you as crazy. I like this country less and less every day.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Lol. This isn't funny, but I had to laugh. I've got ODD bad. And they're gonna need more than medication to cure me of it. Nice write-up OP, thanks for bringing this crap to our attention. I wonder what else they'll start calling a disorder in the not-too-distant future?

reply to post by acmpnsfal

I feel like parents are to blame for what you are referring to. I mean a child may be diagnosed with ADD but nobody looks at the childs diet. A change in the diet could improve concentration and cut down on hyperactivity. Its the parents job to protect their kids and make sure they are taking the best course of action. Outside of that though, every adult has a choice of treatment. You can seek counseling without seeing a psychiatrist. Most people who are prescribed anti depressants are not expected to stay on them long term. They are usually supposed to provide a boost while counseling handles the dirty work.

I agree parents actions don't always square up with their stated intent. I suspect the reasons vary. Some have not been educated to understand how the body and brain develops and what our bodies need, even though we all expect this to be in the core curriculum in our education system. Too often this education is sought after while the baby is already on the way...and must settle for a crash course in which there isn't enough time..what should they learn first right?
I would argue that parents need to be educated in these things first. Then when some nurse wants to jab their newborn with a vaccine, the parent would know that toxic exposure during this critical period can have life-long effects on brain development and behavioral functioning. They would know exactly what is being offered in that injection, and take the proper course of action to truly protect their child. It might be smart to carefully consider this first way before that consent form is shoved in your face and your new baby is just hours old. Know your rights and how to work around a coercive system to protect your child if need be, a parents duty starts right away.

Just like when I was taking the abnormal psychology course, we give 2 seconds of attention to factors that may cause harm in a young child, while giving more than reasonable amount of time towards how to cope with the results. Only when we reach the area of adolescence do we give a respectable attention to causes when it is self harming such as street drugs or alcohol. Why do we do this? Why are we turning a blind eye to pumping toxins in a baby when their brains are most vulnerable and their BBB has not fully developed (I know this is controversial...it seems to me that it was agreed that the BBB was not yet fully developed in a newborn until we decided to intrude and pump toxins into the infant's brain, so now we just decide to manipulate the findings to match whatever serves our purposes?).

Prior to research completed in 2010, scientists believed that the blood-brain barrier was not fully developed until well after birth. Researchers announced in 2010 that studies prove the blood-brain barrier is fully developed before birth. Read more: www.livestrong.com...

I mention the vaccine because I heard new parents are being forced/coerced into giving permission for this particular vaccine to be injected within the first 24 hrs of birth. To me...this is absolute madness and I have yet to see a serious discussion to remotely validate this particular practice.

I agree diet may affect a child's behavior temporarily and you would expect a doctor to first try to eliminate a poor diet as a cause before giving an invasive treatment. Also, understanding the developmental stages of a child are not all equal. As one child is less focused than another child of the same age doesn't mean something is wrong with the child but that it is perfectly normal that we develop at varying rates (we are not all the exact same ya know). Often the parent just needs to be consistent in their routine and discipline ...do what they say they will do, follow through, be reliable, dependable. I find that many parents are being manipulated and even bullied into getting their child on medication, for very normal behavior and normal responses to the stimuli being presented in the classroom environment.
sorry I strayed...yes, I agree diet is also important

So how do you tell these ODD people from ordinary odd people?

reply to post by ScatterBrain

Eh, im torn on vaccines. I mean there is a possibility that a vaccine could cause an unforeseen problem, but whats the alternative? Childhood vaccinations have cut childhood mortality rates. So at the end of the day, do you want a dead child or an alive child?

how else do you think they are going to get us into those camps lol

Originally posted by QUANTUMGR4V17Y
It is just another disorder so that people with poor parenting skills can use as an excuse for their ignorance and lack of abilities to parent.

Who could have seen that one coming?

Yes, there are some parents out there who don't care, but my daughter has ODD, mainly because she has a very low IQ caused by Autism and brain damage from missing part of her brain. So please, let's not lump all parents together. I've done everything I can for my daughter. I've volunteered in her classroom, volunteered on class trips, been investigated by DSS because her shirt had a stain on it from her spilling milk at breakfast and her bus arrived before she could change. You name it, I've been there, done that. I've even had my butt kicked by her, had her placed on pysch hold, Involuntary Commitment, and even Jail even though I did not want to go that route. I finally got my daughter in the placement that I've been trying to get her all along, residential placement for at least 6 months to a year for behavioral modification, then onto permanent residential placement. Believe it or not, if you really are mentally ill or need the help, it's very difficult to get it. But if you piss off the government, they're quick to find a bed to lock you in, a bed they didn't have for someone who really needed it. Sad.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
Most of my clients are diagnosed with ODD. After working with kids for about ten years with this diagnosis I feel it is a crutch label to medicate our children and makes an excuse for lack of parental supervision. By that I do not entirely blame the parents. I blame society as a whole making it impossible to live without duel paychecks. Afterall subbing your parental duties to a low budget daycare will ultimately create greater social/detachment disorders.

I have yet to see it carry over to anyone over the age of 22. The label of ODD that is
That's all I got.

edit on 27-8-2012 by BlastedCaddy because: (no reason given)

I agree fully... Ritalin and other drugs are destroying the minds of children, and they are used in place of actual leadership and discipline.

I do agree with this, but it also doesn't help when some medication does help some children and you have the schools telling the parents that they have to take the children off that medication and put them on a school approved medication. The schools try to play doctor and that's when it gets dangerous. For example, years and years ago, my daughter was on adderall to help her in school. This really worked for her and it helped her focus, she wasn't jumpy and bouncy, she behaved better, etc... The school told us she was no allowed to take it because she was picking at her cuticles and making them bleed exposing other children to blood. Because of that, we had to put her on Ritalin according to the school. OK, fine. We put her on Ritalin and she began attacking kids in the school, me, the nurse, you name it. It just made her violent as all get out. She wasn't violent before the Ritalin, so I told the doctor to take her off it and either not put her on anything, or find something that would make the school happy. They put her on clonidine. One in the morning and one at night. Now she was crawling under the teacher's desk to take a nap in the morning and the school was getting pissed about that. And how I needed to explain to her that school was a place of learning not sleeping. That's all fine and good, but you try explaining medication side effects to someone with the brain of a 3 year old.

The schools are now trying to muscle in on the doctor's game and tell the doctor's what they can and cannot prescribe the kid's. And some doctor's are listening. Sometimes you get the good ones who tell the schools where they can shove it and put the kid's interest above the school's.

Originally posted by ptdait


I hope this has given you a little insight and helps you to be not so quick to judje the parent of a medicated child. Sometimes there are no other options. So, I ask this: Would you say I was a more responsible parent if I let someone (who is eventually going to be an adult) walk around in your neighborhood unmedicated, knowing he might eventually get a kick out of hurting you? Don't speak of something you know nothing about, plz!!

I've gone through a lot of what you've gone through. My daughter was just occasionally violent until her father asked for a divorce. She has ODD, ADHD, Autism, Traumatic Brain Injury, an IQ of 50 that put her at moderately intellectually disabled, as well as other major disabilities.

After her father asked for a divorce she became so violent, especially towards me. In the past I could handle it. I thought I could handle it now. I tried to keep her in her residential school, for home placement, but her father disagreed, so I had to pull her from her school and move. That made her angry. Her father moved away. That made her angry. He didn't want to take her, that made her angry. The only person she could express her anger with was me. She went from having the communication of a 9 year old to the communication of a 5 year old, so it was hitting and lashing out all the time, and I had the bruises to prove. I don't know what pissed me off more. My sister saying the same thing one other poster said, "Bad parenting.", or my husband saying she was beating me because I was spoiling her, or the psych doctor at the ER saying she was beating me because I DIDN'T spoil her and I SHOULD. So basically I was asking for it and I got it, so what was I complaining about? *eyeroll*

Counseling was backed up for 6 months. Her med management had to be handled by the ER, so they kept playing "let's drop this, let's start this, let's tweak this" meanwhile, no one is monitoring her meds. When you're dealing with psychiatric medication, you CANNOT play with it like that and not expect something to happen. But see, I'm a parent. And I'm not suppose to know anything about this medication even though some of it she's been on for years and some of it she's had bad reactions to in the past. But hey, the doctor always knows what is best and brushes you off. That drove me nuts. I wish she had her old doctors, at least they listened and cared about her as a patient.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

ODD is not being used for anything sinister. Again its not a diagnosis given to adults. The quoted article does not include the actual DSM critera for ODD. Its nothing but baseless hype to scare paranoids into thinking the government is after them.

 

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I wouldn't say it is baseless...

Veterans being rounded up nationwide

I wouldn't say it's baseless either. Thankfully Brandon was able to get out of the hospital, but how many more are locked up that we don't know about. And truthfully, I wouldn't doubt that this is the first time this has been done either, just the first time we've known about it. I'll bet since every major war things of this nature have gone on. Either disappear outright through murder, or through psych wards as John Doe's.

It is not as obscure as you think. It is a fancy term for "issues with authority".

Who (not all) goes into the army? People who are trying to stay out of trouble, can't focus enough to go to school, and tend to get into brawls.

How many people have you heard say they are going into the army to straighten themselves out. But their issues with authority don't stop upon registration., as they hope.

So it is no wonder that there is a higher concentration of these people in the military.

reply to post by acmpnsfal

Eh, im torn on vaccines. I mean there is a possibility that a vaccine could cause an unforeseen problem, but whats the alternative? Childhood vaccinations have cut childhood mortality rates. So at the end of the day, do you want a dead child or an alive child?

Are you saying that a child will die if we do not get that hep b vaccine in its body within 24 hrs of birth? How reasonable is that? I would argue that people have the value vs the risks backwards. This strays from the topic so I can't discuss it here but I have studied this issue. there are threads here somewhere on the matter.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


You have no idea what your talking about. The reason "ODD" is being used more is to generalize a group of behaviors that previously were very specific such as" antisocial personality disorder" for example. They did this about ten years ago with teens so that doctors couldn't LABEL them with a group of rather permanent drastic diagnosises that sit on your health file for the next health worker to come along and read the history. The traits you described are considered to vary in the persons mood and stage of life, hence "defiance". The previous way of diagnosing had and has a way of influencing health care members that the problem is permanent and unchangeable, "it's just a personality disorder". Now it's more a view point of defiance of the patient based on stressors at that moment in life. Kinda like the tides coming in and going out. Believe it or not their trying to minimize the effect of labelling a mental health patient causing less of an impact on their lives.
Hmmm. Or you can always go with Tom cruise and say psychiatry is all bunk...

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
Most of my clients are diagnosed with ODD. After working with kids for about ten years with this diagnosis I feel it is a crutch label to medicate our children and makes an excuse for lack of parental supervision. By that I do not entirely blame the parents. I blame society as a whole making it impossible to live without duel paychecks. Afterall subbing your parental duties to a low budget daycare will ultimately create greater social/detachment disorders.

I have yet to see it carry over to anyone over the age of 22. The label of ODD that is
That's all I got.

edit on 27-8-2012 by BlastedCaddy because: (no reason given)

Agreed rarely in adulthood. But the medication aspect is getting rediculous, don't raise them... Medicate them... Sad!