The catch all mental health disorder... Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by BlastedCaddy

 

Here we go again, another thread about a condition only professionals would be able to properly diagnose. You do not understand the critera that needs to be met in order to make the diagnosis. Sure you can read a list of behaviors, but what they mean to a lay person and what they mean to a professional are totally different. Also, you cannot medicate away Oppositional Defiant Disorder. So its not a diagnosis used to push medication.

 

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Seconding BlastedCaddy on this. I'm not a "professional" yet however. Psych major, early childhood development minor might count for something.


They do use this as a bridge to medicate these kids, and it is becoming a more pervasive "slippery slope" sort of umbrella diagnosis. I fear that it may gain momentum and bleed over into adults in a few years.

On that note... This rather puts it into perspective I think.

www.youtube.com...

How much more blatant can it get that the Psychiatric profession is being used as a tool of the state? Such a dandy catch-all label for any child who seriously questions authority or the current social paradigm. Had ODD been an official "illness" when I was a child I would have surely been diagnosed with it.
Fortunately for me I was diagnosed as having an existential crisis at 16. I am certain the antidepressants they put me on did more harm than good. I never felt better than after I had stopped taking them and gotten over the withdrawl. I felt like a normal person again.
This is another dangerous tool for psychiatric professionals to use as an excuse to further drug up another generation of children instead of allowing them to have feelings and working through them.

Reply to post by Sly1one

Firstly, ODD is a diagnosis given only to children. Its not just given because the child disagrees sometimes. This disorder can be corrected with proper treatment. The only way an adult would even be considered for ODD is if they had a long history of behavior problems reaching back into childhood. In that instance it would be a case of ODD going untreated and causing problems in adulthood.

As for being in a mental health facility, depending on the circumstances of admission, no person with any diagnosis would be listened to. But it is my understanding that if you are being held against your will you can request a court hearing to prove your competence and get out.


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Reply to post by redhorse

Undergrad psych is a joke. Everything you learn is general and very basic. You cannot do much of anything within the mental health field unless you go to grad school. ODD is usually comorbid with other disorders which is why kids who have it are sometimes given medication.


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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by redhorse

 

Undergrad psych is a joke. Everything you learn is general and very basic. You cannot do much of anything within the mental health field unless you go to grad school. ODD is usually comorbid with other disorders which is why kids who have it are sometimes given medication.

 

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I'm sorry, perhaps I was wrong. Do you have an academic pathway to skip under-grad psych and just get to the usefull part? I would be really excited about that. I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that it was a pre-requisite to graduate work. So, I'm incredibly curious about your own credentials at this point.

As far as being "comorbid with other disorders", as I said, ODD is often used as a bridge to these other disorders to justify medicating these kids. It started out as a generalized, umbrella diagnosis and is becoming more of one.

When I first heard about this condition, about 10 years ago, it was posited as a joke disorder, a bogus Psych syndrome, probably to balance up a research grant or something. But the concept of it intrigued me. I'm not a trained Psychiatrist, but I soon realised that I had been (suffering isn't really the word. I made other people suffer it, maybe) exhibiting it's symptoms for as long as I can remember. Only when I was a kid, the school diagnosed my behaviour as being a "contrary little bastard".

If I'm instructed how to, or told to do something, I'll genuinely assent to carrying it out, as instructed. But when I'd start the task, I'll do exactly what I've been told not too. Not as a simple act of defiance. Or rebellion. But just because. It got me into trouble at school. It got me into trouble after I'f left school. Only with the Police, involved, it was only natural to sublimate this "syndrome" as genuine rebelliousness. So I became a petty offender, with recidivist tendencies, then a pro active anarchist, with no qualms whatsoever when the Plod got all "Helmets and bin lids", and tried to move us on. I spent half of the 80's fighting running battles against the Police all across rural Southwest England. Bottles and bricks, against boots and truncheons. I have the scars to remind me. (And the convictions.)

But if I could go back and do it all differently, I wouldn't change a thing. I can't think of one act of State resistance I'd do differently. I've never done anything that has given me cause to lie awake at night. And I've done some crazy # as well. Stuff that there's no need to focus on now, but I have acted according to my conscience throughout, and this delightfully surprising and endearing little syndrome has often provided the impetus to actually take a stand in the first place. It has given me an incorrigible sense of optimism, a sense of humour that can still appal even the most broad minded of persons, and a natural opposition to just about anyone who tries co-opting my conscience.

The drugs, the occasional spells in prison, and especially the chaotic lifestyle didn't faze me. I just became a Discordian. Embraced my inner Chao. An obscure but well documented ret-conned Godform, like Eris, with the fluidity, and possibilities that having a life full of chaos brought, has been a most instructive and thoroughly righteous ride.

And Oppositional Defiance Syndrome? My bogus, yet reality defining friend, I owe it all to you, Hail Eris!

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
Most of my clients are diagnosed with ODD. After working with kids for about ten years with this diagnosis I feel it is a crutch label to medicate our children and makes an excuse for lack of parental supervision. By that I do not entirely blame the parents. I blame society as a whole making it impossible to live without duel paychecks. Afterall subbing your parental duties to a low budget daycare will ultimately create greater social/detachment disorders.

I have yet to see it carry over to anyone over the age of 22. The label of ODD that is
That's all I got.

edit on 27-8-2012 by BlastedCaddy because: (no reason given)

I agree fully... Ritalin and other drugs are destroying the minds of children, and they are used in place of actual leadership and discipline.

its more of the Docs fault than the parents, at least thats what I believe.. A parent takes the child to the Dr for a cold, he notices the kids a little hyper, like most kids are at certain ages, he tells the parent, give the kid this, itll help him.
Parent gets it filled, Father finds the meds on the counter, Father pours meds in toilet..
True story, ask my kid

Btw, it was ritalin.. shoulda kept it for myself, lol..

Originally posted by QUANTUMGR4V17Y
It is just another disorder so that people with poor parenting skills can use as an excuse for their ignorance and lack of abilities to parent.

Who could have seen that one coming?

I dont know if this has been posted. Over the years what i'd like to label "shake & bake psychology", the normal trend for this was to give the parents something (usually because they demand to know what is wrong with little Johnny so they can insta-fix it.)

Anyhow, if we take a walk back in time, the first catchall i can think of was Hysteria, which was basically used as a diagnosis for women in the early days of psychology (Freudic era), there is a movie by the same titled which is loosely based on history, feel free to watch it (its not a movie for the kiddies) and kept me amused without picking holes in it .

Moving to modern day the first iteration of the new "hysteria" was ADD, then we moved to ADHD. From my experience (since we didnt have these diagosis when i was at school), the subjects that suffered from these disorders required either: Patental Structure & Change (Disipline & more structure at home), Dietry Change (a few diagnosed with allergies to sugar for an example, or a lower sugar diet) or "sporting theoropy" (which was getting the kids involved in some form of sport as an outlet). Then we moved to ADHD, which was one of the most commonly misdiagnosed disorders, and having child care workers diagnosing this in 3 year olds which cased it to become a "catch all" where the same solution to resolve the behavioural problem(s). Now there are legit cases of both ADD & ADHD, howver they are in the minority.

Now to ODD, this is a legitimate diagnosis. However, most of the symptoms in your youthful years could also be a number of things ranging from: "Teenages doing what they do best" (Defy parents and "the man"), dietry or lacking of structure.

If you ask me, ADD & ADHD ARE clinical disorders, however they are over diagnosed, or systemic of an underlying learning disorder (again a smaller number) or lastly a gifted student. ODD, to be in teenagers and children its simply behavoural nothing more nothing less. You tell a teen not to do something, and whats the first thing they want to do?

Edit @OptimusSubprime - nice to see someone shares my views on ODD


Edit 2 - @Juggernog - Ok, that's not cool. I'm of the opinion that Ritalin should only be perscribed by a clinical psychologist, and not by a GP :/, assuming youre American?

I respect that everyone has an opinion, however, unless you have personally raised a child with certain conditions, your comments on this subject are highly uneducated and frustrating to see how many people may assume the child's behavior is due to negligent parenting. Let me inform those who are on the outside looking in.
My son was three, almost four when he began behavioral therapy for high aggressive behavior and hyper activity. This was not enough to convice me that he needed to be medicated so we continued therapy for around a year. I tried many different approaches to discipline: possitive reinforcement, rewarding for good behavior, time out or taking toys away for misbehavior, calm talking, intimidation, and as much as I know it is frowned upon by proffesionals, yes I spanked. No matter what I did, nothing was working. Then one day I had a meeting with the director of the preschool he was going to and I was told he had stabbed a little girl in the arm with a pencil, and slapped a teacher's glasses to the ground, stompped them then picked up pebbles from the play ground and threw them in that teacher's face. On occasion, he woud hide under tables or desks and say he wouldn't come out until the "man in black" in the corner went away, someone who wasn't there. (I will comment more about his visuals later).Nothing triggered this behavior. Two parents were already threatening to sue the school and/or myself for the amount of pain he had already been cauing to other kids. As a parent, I'd completely understand the urge to protect your child and I know they must have been infuriated. As the mother of the child who was causing all this pain to other childen and their parents, I felt I had run out of options and exhausted every resource I had available to me (even our church) without turning to medications.
It was the summer before he was to start public school and I knew that this had to be handled differently from then on out. I certainly didn't want my son to miss out on educational opportunities because he would be under school suspension or in the principal's office most of every day. On the other hand, as a spiritual person, I was still battling with the idea of medication and found myself doing Google searches on schizophrenia verses being spiritually sensitive. How would I know the difference. What if he has some sort of gift of seeing beings that most of us can not? Would medicating him block his "gift" or was he really meantally ill or seeking attention? I couldn't decide. What I did know, was that no matter what gift he may have, there was no doubt, he had issues with aggressive behavior and even started to hurt animals.
One of the diagnosises was/is O.D.D. Many proffesionals will say there is no medication that can be prescribed for O.D.D. and will recommend continuous therapy and counsiling to help self manage. He was also diagosed with unclasified mood disorder, and ADHD. We have had our ups and downs with medications and I have even attempted to ween him off to see if he would have a better handle on his behavior as he got older, with hopes he'd "grow out of" the old behaior patterns. No such luck. He wound up in the principal's office, started seeing people who weren't there, and needless to say became highly aggressive and defiant. The only obvious difference was that he was getting taller and stronger.

There is still a long road ahead. This is not only a strain on the child who craves to be like the children in his school who he deems "normal", this process is a major strain on the parent and can even jepordize his/her job/career. The parent sacrifices much more than the parent of a child without behavioral disorders.He is 9 years old now and he is in my care at least for the next 9 years to come and I will do whatever it takes to help him become a model citizen and let him know his worth in this world is just as important and anyone elses. I'll be damned if I will allow people to call me a lazy parent because my son is on medication. I will not appologize for going down the road that will help my son be more successful in school and personal relationships. My only hope is he continues his therapy and/or medication in 9 years, cause I can tell you honestly, I'm afraid to see those old behaviors acted out by a stronger, young man. A little bit of me really fears for his future and the harm he could cause to myself, himself, or others.

I hope this has given you a little insight and helps you to be not so quick to judje the parent of a medicated child. Sometimes there are no other options. So, I ask this: Would you say I was a more responsible parent if I let someone (who is eventually going to be an adult) walk around in your neighborhood unmedicated, knowing he might eventually get a kick out of hurting you? Don't speak of something you know nothing about, plz!!

reply to post by ptdait


As discussed in my post (and im sure others), there ARE legitimate cases of ADD & ADHD there is undenyable proof the disorders exist. It's the legitimacy of some dianosis that we (or i) are questioning. To me, what you are describing is a text book case, and would require medication to treat effectively until theoropy has 'done its job', that is all assumed of course.

I am not aiming my comment toward anyone person. It was a general response to other comments on this post. I mainly was trying post an informative reply to those who don't fully understand the subject matter.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


LOL.

Ha ha ha .

For those who keep saying, that ODD is only used for children, then I suggest you read this:

theintelhub.com...

Government officials scan Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter, and YouTube for evidence of criminal activities, activists and possible suspects who may have not committed a crime just yet.

According to the psychiatric manual, the DSM-IV-TR, oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a mental disease wherein free thinkers, non-conformists, civil disobedience supporters, those who question authority and are perceived as being hostile toward the government are labeled mentally ill. Psychiatrists refer to this mental defect as “Mentality III”.

This mental disorder is defined as: “a recurrent pattern of negativistic, defiant, disobedient, and hostile behavior toward authority figures that persists for at least 6 months.”

Apparently this is the new trend, and what they're doing is a kind of Pre-Crime, using ODD and psychiatric incarcination for those who are expressing their dissatisfaction with the government and its corruption.

This was connection to Brandon Raub's case.

There is some indication this is happening suddenly to a lot more and suddenly people are disappearing.

For some reason its not letting me post a link and saying (no link) so I'll try another.


theintelhub.com...

Marine Veteran Brandon Raub’s Attorney says he is getting calls from veterans and people all over the country reporting psychiatric detention for political speech.....

Whitehead told Beck that he is getting calls from military veterans all over the country who have also been bjected to the same Nazi style psychiatric detention for their political views.

Perhaps more alarming was when Beck asked if people of left-wing ideology – specifically members of Occupy Wall Street – are alo being detained. Whitehead responded, saying he can’t say for sure because people all over the country are just disappearing.

Found the interview video on youtube, think its important information. Seems this ODD is being used in the Pre Crime capacity and denying Constitutionally protected rights of citizens.


Locked Up by the Thought Police for Facebook Posts

Originally posted by Unity_99



Apparently this is the new trend, and what they're doing is a kind of Pre-Crime, using ODD and psychiatric incarcination for those who are expressing their dissatisfaction with the government and its corruption.

This was connection to Brandon Raub's case.

There is some indication this is happening suddenly to a lot more and suddenly people are disappearing.

.

Then I guess, I like my son, have O.D.D. But I ceratinly won't go into that on a public forum.

Reply to post by redhorse

Sure you have to complete undergrad to go to grad school, but undergrad psych is not indepth enough to count for anything. ODD is not used to medicate children because you cannot chemically treat ODD.


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Originally posted by Unity_99
For those who keep saying, that ODD is only used for children, then I suggest you read this:

theintelhub.com...

Government officials scan Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter, and YouTube for evidence of criminal activities, activists and possible suspects who may have not committed a crime just yet.

According to the psychiatric manual, the DSM-IV-TR, oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a mental disease wherein free thinkers, non-conformists, civil disobedience supporters, those who question authority and are perceived as being hostile toward the government are labeled mentally ill. Psychiatrists refer to this mental defect as “Mentality III”.

This mental disorder is defined as: “a recurrent pattern of negativistic, defiant, disobedient, and hostile behavior toward authority figures that persists for at least 6 months.”

Apparently this is the new trend, and what they're doing is a kind of Pre-Crime, using ODD and psychiatric incarcination for those who are expressing their dissatisfaction with the government and its corruption.

This was connection to Brandon Raub's case.

There is some indication this is happening suddenly to a lot more and suddenly people are disappearing.

For some reason its not letting me post a link and saying (no link) so I'll try another.


theintelhub.com...

Marine Veteran Brandon Raub’s Attorney says he is getting calls from veterans and people all over the country reporting psychiatric detention for political speech.....

Whitehead told Beck that he is getting calls from military veterans all over the country who have also been bjected to the same Nazi style psychiatric detention for their political views.

Perhaps more alarming was when Beck asked if people of left-wing ideology – specifically members of Occupy Wall Street – are alo being detained. Whitehead responded, saying he can’t say for sure because people all over the country are just disappearing.

edit on 27-8-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

This is the point of my Thread. I'm not sure why people are concentrating on kids. The point is that ODD is starting to be used as a means of identifying those who oppose the system and the globalist agenda.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Its why I wrote that post up, and sought for links, because too many comments dismissing this as happening, and saying its only kids being categorized. When its appears to have stepped a notch or two. But I also think this whole thing is some kind of experiment and its all done on purpose to set the public up in some way.

Reply to post by OptimusSubprime

ODD is not being used for anything sinister. Again its not a diagnosis given to adults. The quoted article does not include the actual DSM critera for ODD. Its nothing but baseless hype to scare paranoids into thinking the government is after them.


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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

ODD is not being used for anything sinister. Again its not a diagnosis given to adults. The quoted article does not include the actual DSM critera for ODD. Its nothing but baseless hype to scare paranoids into thinking the government is after them.

 

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I wouldn't say it is baseless...

Veterans being rounded up nationwide