The Sun Rising from the West before the Sun rises from the West

reply to post by Chance321


If you think women are oppressed in Islam, why are Western women converting to Islam and why 75 percent of Muslims who revert to Islam are women?

Abu Hurayra one of pious follower of the Prophet Muhammad stated, “The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, ‘The most perfect of believers in belief is the best of them in character. The best of you are those who are the best to their women.’”

A Muslim who mistreats women is disobeying the Prophet of God and God, because the prophet Muhammad speak only what God told him to speak.

Abu Hurairah (ra) relates that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: Treat women kindly. Woman has been created from a rib and the most crooked part of the rib is the uppermost. f you try to straighten it, you will break it and if you leave it, alone, it will remain crooked. So treat women kindly. (Bukhari)

The verse I quoted which exhorts mankind to fear God is from the Bible, but it didn't make a ny difference with you.

The deaf don't hear the call. They are like the dead who are in their graves.

Originally posted by Chance321

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
Is your God the God of the Bible?

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man's all" (Ecclesiastes 12:13

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 12:5

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

***

Allah is The God, who commanded these things.

Fear Him that He might give you Wisdom and appoint a light for you to walk safely through this world in preparation for the next.

I really don't see how the leader of a cult can be a god and that's the way I see islam/muslims are, a cult that still has stone age beliefs(ie, the way women are treated) and does not have the willingness to evolve with the times. My image of God is one that does not rule through fear and intimadation, but is a guide that rules through trust, love/compassion and understanding.

edit on 28-8-2012 by Chance321 because: (no reason given)

that is what is wrong with Christians you can not change what god has said because man feels like it , gay priests for one , gods word is final no man can change it

reply to post by queenofangels_17

The Qur'an are God's Words and the Words I'm speaking to you now are also God's Words not my own. I'm just the pen.

See, you’ve ignored my request for no rhetoric. I’m not surprised.

My request is very simple; show me how the words in the Quran are not just the words of men.

And please do this without using the ploy of “only those with eyes may see” etc.

Explain to me how you believe this to be a truth. You never know, if you do this successfully, I might be interested in what you’re saying.

Then again, if you can’t, it’ll only reinforce my opinion of your, and all other, religions.

And one more point, if I may; if god is speaking through you, as you clearly state above, does that make you his messenger?

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

The Qur'an are God's Words and the Words I'm speaking to you now are also God's Words not my own. I'm just the pen.

See, you’ve ignored my request for no rhetoric. I’m not surprised.

My request is very simple; show me how the words in the Quran are not just the words of men.

And please do this without using the ploy of “only those with eyes may see” etc.

Explain to me how you believe this to be a truth. You never know, if you do this successfully, I might be interested in what you’re saying.

Then again, if you can’t, it’ll only reinforce my opinion of your, and all other, religions.

And one more point, if I may; if god is speaking through you, as you clearly state above, does that make you his messenger?

the best way to see if he is real is ask god to reveal him self to you , he will not just appear in front of you but he will make something happen in your life or reveal something to you if you ask him a question ,
but you have to be censear and mean it when you ask and ask from your heart he will know if you don't mean it give it a go you have nothing to loose , just do it for a week ask one time every day

Originally posted by seethetruth

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

The Qur'an are God's Words and the Words I'm speaking to you now are also God's Words not my own. I'm just the pen.

See, you’ve ignored my request for no rhetoric. I’m not surprised.

My request is very simple; show me how the words in the Quran are not just the words of men.

And please do this without using the ploy of “only those with eyes may see” etc.

Explain to me how you believe this to be a truth. You never know, if you do this successfully, I might be interested in what you’re saying.

Then again, if you can’t, it’ll only reinforce my opinion of your, and all other, religions.

And one more point, if I may; if god is speaking through you, as you clearly state above, does that make you his messenger?

the best way to see if he is real is ask god to reveal him self to you , he will not just appear in front of you but he will make something happen in your life or reveal something to you if you ask him a question ,
but you have to be censear and mean it when you ask and ask from your heart he will know if you don't mean it give it a go you have nothing to loose , just do it for a week ask one time every day

edit on 28-8-2012 by seethetruth because: (no reason given)

Accept his advice because he is a man who sees the Truth.

reply to post by queenofangels_17

So you think that sins will not be punished by God? And that disbelivers will dwell in Paradise with the believers who kept God's words and avoided evil while they were alive? Is this your logic?

God isn’t interested in “sin”!

What difference does it make to the very essence of reality what anyone does with their bodies or thoughts?

Do you really think that this sentient, vibrant, yet non-interventionist force – one that exists beyond our comprehension yet that with every scientific step forward we discover more and more tantalising clues as to just what this force is – that we call “god”, is actively concerned about what I eat? Or drink? Or think?

Please.

I am not advocating a chaotic approach to life; what I promote is a sense of decency and respect amongst all Humans, policed by an inbuilt appreciation for the rights of your fellows, without the overtly domineering and control-ridden doctrine of a magic man in the sky!

The Golden Rule is simple; be nice. This applies to yourself, to others, to all living things and the planet we all live upon.

Of course, it is virtually impossible to make people realise this.

We shouldn’t need the threat of punishment to do what is right. But Man being Man, we need policing.

And this is where the Abrahamic religions fail; they bully.

And why does the creation of god need bullying for misbehaving?

It doesn’t. Coming from a god, Man should be perfect.

However, if our provenance is other than divine, then that would explain our inbuilt predilection for waywardness.

If we were once apes, for example…

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

The Qur'an are God's Words and the Words I'm speaking to you now are also God's Words not my own. I'm just the pen.

See, you’ve ignored my request for no rhetoric. I’m not surprised.

My request is very simple; show me how the words in the Quran are not just the words of men.

And please do this without using the ploy of “only those with eyes may see” etc.

Explain to me how you believe this to be a truth. You never know, if you do this successfully, I might be interested in what you’re saying.

Then again, if you can’t, it’ll only reinforce my opinion of your, and all other, religions.

And one more point, if I may; if god is speaking through you, as you clearly state above, does that make you his messenger?

Here is my Proof that the Qur'an is God's Word and I am indeed His Messenger

In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent , the Most Merciful.

1 Nun. By the pen and that which they write (therewith),
2 Thou art not, for thy Lord's favour unto thee, a madman.
3 And lo! thine verily will be a reward unfailing.
4 And lo! thou art of a tremendous nature.
5 And thou wilt see and they will see
6 Which of you is the demented.
7 Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is Best Aware of those who walk aright.
8 Therefor obey not thou the rejecters
9 Who would have had thee compromise, that they may compromise.
10 Neither obey thou each feeble oath-monger,
11 Detracter, spreader abroad of slanders,
12 Hinderer of the good, transgressor, malefactor
13 Greedy therewithal, intrusive.
14 It is because he is possessed of wealth and children
15 That, when Our revelations are recited unto him, he saith: Mere fables of the men of old.
16 We shall brand him on the nose.

I am Nun. My name is Nur in Arabic and Light in English

I am the pen. The Qalam.

My Lord has favored me and I am not a mad man.

I am of a Tremendous nature.

I will see and you will see which of us is the demented..

If you believe me its for your good, don't think that you will be doing me a favor if you believe, but it's God who gave you favor for guiding you, if you are sincere.

If not, God said that He will brand you on the Nose. Only Allah knows the nature of this brand.

Think seriously before you make an answer, take your time and ask God to guide you, because His punishment cannot be reversed. A brand in the nose which will mark you as a disbeliever in His Revelations, in this life and in the life to come.

Reflect, follow the advice of the man who sees the Truth, because he is a witness to the Truth and in the company of angels and the righteous!

reply to post by Beamish

the thing about the ape thing is if we came from apes why are there still apes and why is there not an ape that is half way between man and ape ,
the difference between man and ape on a dna level is that 2 of man's cromazones have been fused together allowing more cromazones to one dna strand ,
The fusing together had to be done by an out side force

reply to post by seethetruth

the best way to see if he is real is ask god to reveal him self to you

Been there, done that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

I’m pretty damn sure that the many innocent Muslim civilians who died in Iraq died praying fervently to allah to save them.

When it does seem to work, it does not necessarily mean that god, in the sense you mean, responded.

We’re all part of a universal whole, interlinked, connected. The building blocks of life are no different in a star or a new born baby. Energy intertwines itself inextricably between those building blocks, everything we are, make and strive to reach beyond our world.

When we pray, we are talking to ourselves. Connecting. Empowering. We are, after all, part of god. We can make our own realities, albeit small ones.

The awareness – concept, if you will - of god is the awareness of this connection. In some the connection is clearer and they try and make sense of it so they can improve the lot of their fellow Humans.

In others, they see the advantages of fear and control espoused under the banner of the “divine”, and use them to their own advantages.

That makes sense to me.

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by seethetruth

 

the best way to see if he is real is ask god to reveal him self to you

Been there, done that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

I’m pretty damn sure that the many innocent Muslim civilians who died in Iraq died praying fervently to allah to save them.

When it does seem to work, it does not necessarily mean that god, in the sense you mean, responded.

We’re all part of a universal whole, interlinked, connected. The building blocks of life are no different in a star or a new born baby. Energy intertwines itself inextricably between those building blocks, everything we are, make and strive to reach beyond our world.

When we pray, we are talking to ourselves. Connecting. Empowering. We are, after all, part of god. We can make our own realities, albeit small ones.

The awareness – concept, if you will - of god is the awareness of this connection. In some the connection is clearer and they try and make sense of it so they can improve the lot of their fellow Humans.

In others, they see the advantages of fear and control espoused under the banner of the “divine”, and use them to their own advantages.

That makes sense to me.

Those Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, all those poor souls as you want to think of them didn't pray to be delivered as you say.

They died in the best cause, God's cause and died a martyr.

Their souls live though you think them dead, and white robes are given to them in Heaven while they wait for their brothers to join them and complete their number.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

This is the point where we are now. For the wise who knows the signs!

reply to post by queenofangels_17

Here is my Proof that the Qur'an is God's Word and I am indeed His Messenger

Ok. Remember what I said about all the other divinities here?

And you never answered my question as to why allah sent you to ATS.

Now, when you say:

I am Nun. My name is Nur in Arabic and Light in English

I am the pen. The Qalam.

Are you quoting someone else, or introducing yourself?

I ask this because if you aren’t:

My Lord has favored me and I am not a mad man.

Mad?

No.

Fanatic? Tick that box.

FYI: medieval grandiloquence doesn’t impress the intelligent, and I’m assuming that in your eyes god gave us intelligence?

I am of a Tremendous nature.

What can I say? Can we see a picture?

You know, self- aggrandizement isn’t pretty. Humbleness and sensible discussion works better for a lot of people.

I will see and you will see which of us is the demented..

I’ve already said you’re not mad, but if you keep insisting on pointing towards the fact you’re not, then attitudes might have to change. And for the record, I’m not mad either.

If you believe me its for your good, don't think that you will be doing me a favor if you believe, but it's God who gave you favor for guiding you, if you are sincere.

There’s a bit of reverse psychology mixed with a liberal dose of fearmongering. “Believe, it’s for your own good”; translated means don’t believe and you’re screwed.

If not, God said that He will brand you on the Nose. Only Allah knows the nature of this brand.

And there’s more fearmongering. Not everyone responds to threats. I’d expect more from the Lord of Worlds.

Not a thing you posted points towards the Quran being the word of god, nor you being his messenger.

Nothing.

All you did was quote chapter and verse at me. That is not only ignoring my intellect, in fact, it’s insulting it.

I asked you to try and convince me, and all you did was to spout someone else’s words.

Where’s your discussion, Pen?

reply to post by queenofangels_17

Those Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, all those poor souls as you want to think of them didn't pray to be delivered as you say.

What utter rubbish.

No matter what you want to tell yourself, do you honestly believe that on the point of death, either on the end of a gun or in sheer agony, those innocents – men, women and children - were smiling and happy because they knew they were “going to paradise”?

You have a very shallow, naive understanding of the Human psyche. And that’s worrying for a messenger of god.

reply to post by Beamish


God created man in His image, not physical image since God is a Spirit, but as a spirit, good without blemish as the most beautiful pearl. But our body He made from clay. Over time the soul become corrupt due to the lusts of the body and the soul which was once beautiful and white became black.

God sends His Prophets to purify our soul and to make it white as it once before.

Now in this time, my task is to purify your souls and make it shine once again as pearls, so that we will all be worthy to ascend back to Heaven, as a bride preparing for her Wedding.

Only he who hears the call and answered will be purified and sealed with a spirit from God.

*** Let me tell you the history of the apes.

Men did not come from apes, but apes came from man.

Since they were once men, these men were the people who rejected the teachings of Moses. God cursed them to be apes for breaking the Sabbath and for rejecting Moses' teachings about the Messiah coming from the Children of Ismael.

While we're on the point, pigs used to be human too, these were the people who rejected Jesus and rejected also the teachings that the Messenger of God in the Last Day will come from the Children of Ismael.

Did you think about what I said in my last post? Do you still deny it?

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

Those Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, all those poor souls as you want to think of them didn't pray to be delivered as you say.

What utter rubbish.

No matter what you want to tell yourself, do you honestly believe that on the point of death, either on the end of a gun or in sheer agony, those innocents – men, women and children - were smiling and happy because they knew they were “going to paradise”?

You have a very shallow, naive understanding of the Human psyche. And that’s worrying for a messenger of god.

So be it, Beamish.

May God's will be done on Earth as it is done in heaven.


Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!

reply to post by seethetruth

the thing about the ape thing is if we came from apes why are there still apes…
The fusing together had to be done by an out side force

Do you not think that you could have answered your own question there?
I
’ve already stated that - in my opinion - there’s an “outside force” as you rightly put it; so accepting that, maybe the necessary “alterations” to our ancestor’s DNA was implemented on selective groups only?

If we take the idea further into the realms of speculation, maybe only a few, “handpicked” colonies of apes were “altered”, ones that showed the most promise, ones that showed more signs of evolution?

It’s all assumption, until we unravel all of the clues.

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

Those Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, all those poor souls as you want to think of them didn't pray to be delivered as you say.

What utter rubbish.

No matter what you want to tell yourself, do you honestly believe that on the point of death, either on the end of a gun or in sheer agony, those innocents – men, women and children - were smiling and happy because they knew they were “going to paradise”?

You have a very shallow, naive understanding of the Human psyche. And that’s worrying for a messenger of god.

Should I tell you about the story of the wife of a Prophet who have four children and she chose to jump in the fire with her children, one of them still an infant, rather than to worship the Pharaoh. And they died smiling because they knew that they were going to Paradise?

You who hate to lose your life in this world, will lose it and in the Hereafter waiting for you is a greater doom.

He who is sure to get water, never gets thirsty!

reply to post by queenofangels_17

Men did not come from apes, but apes came from man.

Since they were once men, these men were the people who rejected the teachings of Moses. God cursed them to be apes for breaking the Sabbath and for rejecting Moses' teachings about the Messiah coming from the Children of Ismael.

While we're on the point, pigs used to be human too, these were the people who rejected Jesus and rejected also the teachings that the Messenger of God in the Last Day will come from the Children of Ismael.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone…

Pigs?

Ok…

I seem to remember that you mentioned science in one of your previous posts, something about it ultimately proving Islam correct?

Have you ever heard of carbon 14 dating? Look it up. It works, because it’s science.

Do you realise that we have evidence of pigs being domesticated in the Tigris Basin around 13,000 bce? Archaeological discoveries verify this, because they’re scientific procedures.

When was Jesus born? Around 5 bce? This outline date has been arrived at by biblical scholars.

Care to explain this massive discrepancy?

Did you think about what I said in my last post? Do you still deny it?

I’ll reiterate what I said previously; you have done nothing to prove to me that the Quran isn’t the work of Man, or that you are the messenger of god.

And to further that, I’ve just demolished your tales about pigs…

reply to post by queenofangels_17

Should I tell you about the story of the wife of a Prophet who have four children and she chose to jump in the fire with her children…

And isn’t it a convenient story too? Much like all religious stories; designed to bolster the faith of the devoted.
Of course, it could be about as true as your idea of pigs coming from Man…

You who hate to lose your life in this world, will lose it and in the Hereafter waiting for you is a greater doom.

Everyone dies. No getting away from that.

However, life is energy, and energy cannot go away. It’s continuous, everlasting. That’s science. Our thoughts and actions are all the result of energy transfer. What we are, is communicated via energy.

So it is feasible to say that we exist after the death of the material in another form; energy.

You can call it spirit; life reduced to its purest form.

But that spirit’s continuation has nothing to do with doom, as energy is neither good nor bad.

No doom. No hell. No heaven. But a continuation.

It’s your choice whilst you are material to act in a decent way. You owe it to yourself, and those around you.

The fear of punishment does not stop man doing wrong. It never has.

So god’s plan doesn’t work.

reply to post by Beamish


You have a more convenient theory then, you live and die, become energy, no punishment, no reward.

You think God created the World for nothing, all His Creations have no purpose?

So why send Prophets as bringers of glad tidings and as warners?



32 And we sent among them a messenger of their own, saying: Serve Allah, Ye have no other God save Him. Will ye not ward off (evil) ?

33 And the chieftains of his folk, who disbelieved and denied the meeting of the Hereafter, and whom We had made soft in the life of the world, said: This is only a mortal like you, who eateth of that whereof ye eat and drinketh of that ye drink.

34 If ye were to obey a mortal like yourselves, then, lo! ye surely would be losers.

35 Doth he promise you that you, when ye are dead and have become dust and bones, will (again) be brought forth ?

36 Begone, begone, with that which ye are promised!

37 There is naught but our life of the world; we die and we live, and we shall not be raised (again).

38 He is only a man who hath invented a lie about Allah. We are not going to put faith in him.

39 He said: My Lord! Help me because they deny me.

40 He said: In a little while they surely will become repentant.

41 So the (Awful) Cry overtook them rightfully, and We made them like as wreckage that a torrent hurleth. A far removal for wrongdoing folk!

***

reply to post by Beamish



Will you recognize Jesus if he stand in front of you?

Is there anyone alive here today who will vouch for you the time when Jesus was born? But the Living One who doesn't die, who is aware of All things is not enough witness for you?

Will you take the word of Science before God's word?

So how do you explain the coincidence that pigs shares 98 percent of the human genes? According to Science?
With a little modification they will be able to use pig hearts to transplant to humans, but they haven't arived there yet, nor will they, but pig's heart valves are currently being used now with some humans.

Pigs are unclean animals, eating them is prohibited in the Torah, the Gospel and the Qur'an. But men in whose hearts is a disease, men who disobey God's Laws, eat them. Tell me, who are the majority of people who have heart disease? Do doctors ask theml not to eat pork so as not to aggravate the disease? You follow doctors when you are sick, but if you have followed God's Law you will not have it in the first place.

Jesus came to heal the sick of spirit, but only men with physical sickness came to be healed. Woe on you! God is the accepter of repentance but none of you want to accept that you have sinned, and therefore deny yourself the pleasure of tasting God's Mercy.

By Him in whose hand is my soul, whoever believes my Testimony will be healed in spirit and will be brough forth from darkness to light.

Come to me, you who are tired, and you will receive rest!

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds