The Sun Rising from the West before the Sun rises from the West

reply to post by Akragon


109. al-Kafirun: The Unbelievers

1 Say: O disbelievers!
2 I worship not that which ye worship;
3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

Originally posted by wittgenstein
Note that queenofangels_17’s version of Islam has nothing spiritual in it, just rules and regulations. His version can be summed up in one sentence, “Do this or the boss man will smite you.” His whole version of Islam is VERY primitive and is an insult to the Koran.

Like loves like.

6:111 And though We should send down the angels unto them, and the dead should speak unto them, and We should gather against them all things in array, they would not believe unless Allah so willed. Howbeit, most of them are ignorant.

reply to post by queenofangels_17

Blasphemy against the Bible?

More assumptions? Really?

Knowing full well that i said the bible is NOT Gods word... you still assume i meant the bible?

Blasphemy against the spirit my friend... the bible is just a book.

Are you the one who said before that it ceased to be taken as " God's Words" after the advent of the Internet?

Please refer to the above statement...

The gospels written by anonymous writers who may or may not have known Jesus personally, such as Paul the Apostate, who lead too many sheeps astray, like you?

Like me?

I regularly speak out about Paul and his doctrine... Clearly you do not know me... So again you assume that i've been led astray when in fact i point people to HIS words and no other...

And speaking of which, wasn't Muhammad a murderer and a rapist? Yes that is an assumption because i don't know much about him... but i do know his words are not the words of Jesus.

If I say there are other gods than the One True God, I blaspheme.

According to your book...

And im not saying you should say there are other Gods... there is one true God, and what you write makes me wonder if you know of him at all...

If I say that the Bible is corrupted by men such that scarcely can the Truth be found, I do not blaspheme, because I speak the Truth.

Correct... that is the truth...

How is your book any different?

May God guide you to the straight path, If he wills

He has... and continues to every day of my life...

Why do you avoid answering quesitons?

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by Akragon

 

109. al-Kafirun: The Unbelievers

1 Say: O disbelievers!
2 I worship not that which ye worship;
3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

I said i have no religion... and im not a "disbeliever"... But i am noticing your God and mine are not one and the same.... according to you and what you've shown

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Lostmymarbles

 

So why play Russian Roulette with your soul?

Better yet...

Why worry about the commandments of men... which came from a book that is thousands of years old?

Do you believe you can damage your soul by eating something?

Is the spirit not more then the flesh?

I do not worry about the commandments of men, I worry for myself and my soul. My studies and research have lead me to believe that the commandments are just part of a much greater set of rules, ones that allow you to connect with your soul. Far older then just a mere few thousand years, try 10s of thousands of years.

And eating something that is considered "unclean" prevents the individual from being able to connect with their inner conscience (i.e. soul, spirit, whichever term suits you).

Every now and again a "messenger" comes along to help guide us in the ways of life and attaining peace and harmony. They teach us forgotten knowledge and forgotten ways of life. Things that we can do and those that we cannot or should not do.

A lot of the current religions are also connected with ancient religions. There is also much evidence from around the globe spanning countless millennium that show ancient cultures knew of a inner spirit/soul and had forbidden foods because such foods would prevent the individual from connecting with that inner self.

So it is not a question of damaging my soul by eating something, but that I would not be able to connect with my soul by eating something.

Therefore, why play Russian Roulette with your soul?

Do you not wish to connect with your inner self? With your spirit/soul? Do you not wish to truly know who you are and what your true potential could be?

If certain foods could prevent these things, then why eat them? You can consider them temptations and whether you are strong enough to fight the temptation or cave into it.

I myself eat fish, chicken, fruits and vegetables, and sometimes beef. I am slowly weeding out certain foods as I learn of their impurities or when I find out that they are forbidden foods. It is hard but then again are you strong enough to know the right thing to do? And even when knowing it, can you execute it (do it)? Or do you turn your back and hope for the best and hope that you are right and that the ancients were wrong?

As for your last question, the spirit is separate from the flesh, it is trying to get back to the flesh and become a part of it. To become whole, in mind, body and spirit. But what we eat becomes part of the flesh and depending on that, it would either attract the spirit or repeal it. Like magnets, if the spirit finds the flesh (body) to be clean and welcoming then it could come back to it but if it finds it unfit to hold the spirit then it would be turned away from the flesh.

All this is up for debate and interpretation (whether it's your own or that of the group you follow).

For me, I am trying to reconnect with myself and therefore I will do my best to avoid that which could prevent this. And from my studies, pork happens to be one of these things. When 3 of the main religions (there are other religions which also state this) in the world say to stay away from something, it might be wise to heed that warning.

If you know something is wrong or have been told it yet you continue to do it. What does that say about yourself?

I could go on and on but I have other stuff I must do. Maybe one day I will make my own post about what I think and feel about the stuff I have learned and/or been taught.

Everyday I am trying to better myself.

One must learn to crawl before they can crawl, then one must then learn to walk before they can walk. It is a long journey, but then what part of life isn't a journey?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by Akragon

 

109. al-Kafirun: The Unbelievers

1 Say: O disbelievers!
2 I worship not that which ye worship;
3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

I said i have no religion... and im not a "disbeliever"... But i am noticing your God and mine are not one and the same.... according to you and what you've shown

That makes you one in the eyes of My God.

God is the one who knows the heart and guides whom He wills.

The number that He has appointed will be completed, and none will be lost. If you're not one of them..

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


You have your beliefs and im not here to question or try to change them...

But as i've said, nothing you eat can defile your spirit...

as for this...

the spirit is separate from the flesh, it is trying to get back to the flesh and become a part of it.

Im going to have to disagree with this in part... The spirit and the flesh are one... The spirit is not trying to "get back" or become a part of the flesh... they co-exist within the same space.

It is the spirit that guides us to what is right... And its said Gods laws are written within the heart of man... and even "look within"...

Have you read Thomas per chance?

When you make the outer like the inner... when you make the two into one... You will enter the kingdom?

Originally posted by queenofangels_17

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by Akragon

 

109. al-Kafirun: The Unbelievers

1 Say: O disbelievers!
2 I worship not that which ye worship;
3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

I said i have no religion... and im not a "disbeliever"... But i am noticing your God and mine are not one and the same.... according to you and what you've shown

That makes you one in the eyes of My God.

God is the one who knows the heart and guides whom He wills.

The number that He has appointed will be completed, and none will be lost. If you're not one of them..

Then im sorry to say... Your God is a liar... And i do not know him...

Nor do i wish to know him... He seems very much like the God of the OT... and i dispise this false God...

My God knows me, and i him... because i know his son...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by queenofangels_17

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by Akragon

 

109. al-Kafirun: The Unbelievers

1 Say: O disbelievers!
2 I worship not that which ye worship;
3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

I said i have no religion... and im not a "disbeliever"... But i am noticing your God and mine are not one and the same.... according to you and what you've shown

That makes you one in the eyes of My God.

God is the one who knows the heart and guides whom He wills.

The number that He has appointed will be completed, and none will be lost. If you're not one of them..

Then im sorry to say... Your God is a liar... And i do not know him...

Nor do i wish to know him... He seems very much like the God of the OT... and i dispise this false God...

My God knows me, and i him... because i know his son...

The OT God and My God are indeed one and the same.

If You don't want to know Him, nor does He want to know you.

My God has no son, no mother, no father.

I agree your God is not my God, so the message is not for you, it's for my God's people.

You like to quote from the hidden teaching but its truth is still hidden from you....

Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."

reply to post by Lostmymarbles

I could go on and on but I have other stuff I must do. Maybe one day I will make my own post about what I think and feel about the stuff I have learned and/or been taught.

I would like to see such a thread...

reply to post by Akragon


And as I stated, are you sure about this, 100% or do you hope that you are right and others are wrong?

In that nothing you eat can defile your spirit?

Are you 100% sure? Did you make the rules to where this is true? Or do you hope that this is true?

It is the spirit that guides us, I agree with you, but as you can see all around us, many people are very very lost. Where is their spirit to guide them? Or is there spirit waiting to enter the body to help guide them?

Because nothing is certain, we should not dismiss the possibilities or probabilities of what can or cannot be. Limiting oneself is only damaging and endangering oneself, but keeping or having an open mind helps opens our eyes to knew things.

Thomas Paine? Common Sense?

As for the last part, that is what I wish to find out. It is a learning experience and a journey after all. I know not what is on the other side but I shall try my best to find out and help others.

But my belief and research has lead me to believe that entering heaven is not as easy as we have been lead to believe and that there more steps to it then just repenting.

I do not know what they are but that is what I am trying to find out.

reply to post by queenofangels_17

The OT God and My God are indeed one and the same.

If You don't want to know Him, nor does He want to know you.

I suspected as much... I know him... And he does not like me... because i don't preach religion or anything but love... words from a book only support what i preach...

My God has no son

You are not his child?

I agree your God is not my God, so the message is not for you, it's for my God's people.

You like to quote from the hidden teaching but its truth is still hidden from you....

What truth?

Please show me...

Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."

I recognize that the so called God of the OT is not the same as the one Jesus spoke of...

and why are you quoting Jesus when you follow Muhammad?

reply to post by Lostmymarbles

And as I stated, are you sure about this, 100% or do you hope that you are right and others are wrong?

In that nothing you eat can defile your spirit?

Are you 100% sure? Did you make the rules to where this is true? Or do you hope that this is true?

Did he not call himself "the truth, the life, and the way"?

I believe if he said it, it was likely true...

It is the spirit that guides us, I agree with you, but as you can see all around us, many people are very very lost. Where is their spirit to guide them? Or is there spirit waiting to enter the body to help guide them?

They do not recognize what is within us... That which is already "present"

Because nothing is certain, we should not dismiss the possibilities or probabilities of what can or cannot be. Limiting oneself is only damaging and endangering oneself, but keeping or having an open mind helps opens our eyes to knew things.

Do what you think is best my friend, am not one to dictate what you must do... I smoke, i drink.. I love pork...

I am far from Perfect

*shrug*

Thomas Paine? Common Sense?

Who?

reluctant-messenger.com...

As for the last part, that is what I wish to find out. It is a learning experience and a journey after all. I know not what is on the other side but I shall try my best to find out and help others.

But my belief and research has lead me to believe that entering heaven is not as easy as we have been lead to believe and that there more steps to it then just repenting.

I do not know what they are but that is what I am trying to find out.

As are we all... this is why we turn to Scripture from far earlier, simpler times... I believe people were much more in touch with God back then as compared to now... We live in a BOX these days...

I believe "entering Heaven" is much simpler then what has been told... In fact All will be saved We all return to the source when we pass...

reply to post by Akragon



Please do not take my questioning of your views as attacks or criticism.

I ask these questions so that I may learn something new, something that would make me think outside the box or better help shape my perspective and views on life. But also to do the same for you.

We cannot learn if we do not ask, and what we ask would determine what we learn. Sometimes a slight push is needed to help us in the right direction. And that is another reason for asking so many questions.

I am a research freak, I do not take things for face value. I have learn the error of those ways many times before in the past, which is why I will do research for things that I am not familiar with or told about.

Also with luck perhaps a 3rd party who stumbles upon this might give their insight which would open the doors to new things. It is exciting to think of the potential of learning new things which would better my life as well as those around me.

reply to post by Lostmymarbles

Please do not take my questioning of your views as attacks or criticism.

No worries... i welcome questions, attacks or criticisms...

reply to post by Akragon


Could you post a source or a verse for where you read that what we eat would not defile our bodies?

I am a follower of J. C., as in follower, I live my life by the way he lived his, by what he ate and what he did. And with J.C. being an Essene Jew, he did not eat pork, which is one of the other reasons why I stay away from pork. I do not worship J.C. because that would go against what God told Moses on Mt. Sinai.

My interpretation of J.C. saying "the truth, the life, and the way" is that we should live our lives as he had done. That if we live the way he lived his life then we would be one step closer to getting into Heaven.

Other "messengers" have said the same thing, to live your life like that of the scriptures.

I believe Buddha said something to the effect of:

When you see me you see the scriptures, when you read the scriptures you see me.

We are all far from perfect hehe, there have only been a small handful of individuals whom could be considered perfect in the way they lived.

But fixing our problems is also part of the journey.

As for Heaven, I believe there are more then 1 step to get into Heaven, something I read by Edgar Cayce leads me to believe this, as well as several other religions what deal with reincarnation.

When we get to a certain point, whether saved, rescued or learned, we graduate to the next step in life. That there are several steps that lead to the path of Heaven and this life we live one is just 1 of several steps. Being saved here helps us move on to the next step, thus getting us one step closer to the Kingdom of Heaven. How many steps there are? I do not know, but supposedly our inner spirit/soul does know and if we can connect with that inner self, we might be able to learn these things.

But it seems that there is a deadline to get certain steps completed, and that deadline is the Day of Judgement.

Of course this is all up for debate and interpretation.

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


Matthew 15

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.



Mark 7

Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.....

...........

....

Heres the nail...

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


You are indeed a true follower of Jesus.

16 Oh, I swear by the afterglow of sunset,
17 And by the night and all that it enshroudeth,
18 And by the moon when she is at the full,
19That ye shall journey on from plane to plane.
20 What aileth them, then, that they believe not
21 And, when the Qur'an is recited unto them, worship not (Allah) ?
22 Nay, but those who disbelieve will deny;
23 And Allah knoweth best what they are hiding.
24 So give them tidings of a painful doom,
25 Save those who believe and do good works, for theirs is a reward unfailing.

You don't distinguish among the messengers, and you don't look at the form but what is inside.

Believe in the One God and continue on doing good and avoiding evil.

The dwellers of Paradise are facilitated on the path of goodness until they reach their destiny.

Peace and good tidings!

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

The OT God and My God are indeed one and the same.

If You don't want to know Him, nor does He want to know you.

I suspected as much... I know him... And he does not like me... because i don't preach religion or anything but love... words from a book only support what i preach...

My God has no son

You are not his child?

I am his faithful slave.

I agree your God is not my God, so the message is not for you, it's for my God's people.

You like to quote from the hidden teaching but its truth is still hidden from you....

What truth?

Please show me...

Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."

I recognize that the so called God of the OT is not the same as the one Jesus spoke of...

and why are you quoting Jesus when you follow Muhammad?

Because Jesus and Muhammad and all the Prophets are as one, they brought one message, One God.

His disciples said to him, "Twenty-four prophets have spoken in Israel, and they all spoke in you."

He said to them, "You have disregarded the living one who is in your presence, and have spoken of the dead."

I tell my mystery to whoever is worthy of my mystery.

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

The true followers of Jesus will know the meaning through Divine inspiration...

reply to post by Akragon


I'm not sure about the Book of Mark, but the Book of Matthew has always seemed a bit off to me. It also seems that some of the worlds worst dictators love the Book of Matthew. Hitler's favorite book I believe was the Book of Matthew and that it was one book that he memorized.

It's just a bit disturbing when dictators and butchers of humanity favor certain books in the Bible.

It has been a while since I've reread the Bible, so I am not up to par with memory on where certain verses are located, but I do believe that it is said in that Bible that there would be those who would try to trick us into believing what is false as real. That certain things would be put in place to test us and it would be up to us to discern the truth from the false.

And seeing how the Bible was selected from certain gospels, texts, and scriptures by those of whom Constantine picked during the Council of Nicaea at 325 A.D. and that those books deemed unworthy were burned and destroyed. Those who held possession of such books were put to the death, also makes me cautious of certain books in the New Testament. Not the whole books or all of the New Testaments, but parts and verses that seem to contradict other parts of the Bible.

Books like the Book of Enoch, The Lost Books of Genesis, which were books that had been deemed sacred by the Essene Community as well as other religions communities were all destroyed, making it more then a little confusing why certain books once favored by all were now outlawed and banned. While others were deemed acceptable and placed into the New Testament.

We also have "lost in translation" to deal with, when books were translated or transcribed into "modern" or other languages.

The interpretation for the following texts that you quoted (except possibly the last - which could be a translation thing) could be interpreted as such:

That what goes into the mouth can be viewed as words or knowledge.

When people read, many read while moving their lips, thus, putting knowledge of what they read into their lips. This knowledge would not defile their bodies, but how they use this knowledge could. What they take from reading/learning would not be bad, but what they tell others about what they have read could defile themselves and others.

Knowledge is power and throughout time, not many could read and those who knew how to usually were the leaders of their communities. How they used this knowledge would define whether they used it for good or for the benefit of themselves, thus defiling that which comes out from their mouths.

It is okay to accept knowledge and to learn but how you use what you learn could be the interpretation of the defiling thing which comes back out from the mouth. Whether you preach of peace or chant for war.

History has shown us how many dictators, monsters, and such have misused knowledge in their favor and have corrupted many with the power of what they knew by what they said. Spanish Inquisition comes to mind, as well as how the Popes would tell individuals something different from what they read in order to gain control of the masses. A reason why Martin Luther of Germany was so hated for having translated the Bible into common tongue for all others to be able to read. This upset the clergy because it took power away from them.

This is all up for interpretation of course, but as you can see, this interpretation of mine is not to far fetched and does have merit, especially when considering and looking back on history and those who were leaders of the past.

For these reasons, I have been studying all 3 holy books (as well as those holy books of other religions) and taking from them the similarities which deal with being good, kind, compassionate, and forgiving. As well as what foods one should eat as well as those that we should not.

Of course this could be problematic for quite a lot of individuals, which is another reason why I am studying other texts and cultures, hoping to find the truth through the mist of lies that span throughout history. After all, it is the victors and conquerors who write the history books.

Does make one wonder about whether what they're doing is good or actually bad.