The 800 Pound Gorilla Everyone Ignores

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by BennyTheBlade
reply to post by newcovenant

 

lmao i dont deserve to live here? First off i didnt choose to live here. I was born here. If the only way one deserves to live here is by being a blind fool im glad i dont. The system is a scam to the fullest extent. Its a joke. Its a failed system. The economy is proof the gov is a failed system. Voting does nothing to change that failed system, only further it along. If wanting clear proof that the voting is fair makes me unamerican that heck with it, im not proud to be american anyway. I cnat see why everyone wouldnt want to know for sure its fair. Thats just idiotic. Secondly, no offence? Thats pretty offencive so im sure it was intended. Be a man and say your being offencive. You sir are an ignorant waste of my time and i want nothing to do with your childish comments. Just because i demand the system be proven fair you think you deserve more than i do. I pitty the fool. Get over yourself already. Thank you come again.. Oh and ps, you failed to explain your logic. That link you posted doent offer any reason why it should be law. If anything thats more reason i should have the right to choose if i care enough.

edit on 27-8-2012 by BennyTheBlade because: wanted a proper explanation of a past question.

It's a great system and among the best in the world. Why do you think we still have people trying to get into the country and very few trying to get out of America? It is just a shame people in ignorance due to an incomplete education or perhaps simple childish immaturity think it was easy or free. People fought and died to give American people the right to vote in free and fair elections. You can demand all you want, you can cry and stomp your feet but no body is going to do your homework and prove the system is fair to you or anyone else. That is up to you to study history a little and realize what you've got here and appreciate it or move out of the country if you think some other country does it better. Political Science 101. Simple. No need to chastise me, or call me ignorant since I know more about the election process than you seem to. There is no need to accuse me being a waste of time just because it irks you I am a patriotic American who is glad for and accepts the responsibility to vote. You admittedly, are not and do not.

You must be in the top percentile of earners to be so satisfied with the goings on in the respect to our entire system! No Offense but anyone who really believes that their vote makes any difference is living in fantasy land!
I don't contest that Americans have it better then most other countries! The truth is we are on the fast track to changing this! America now has the highest income, healthcare and edjucation disparity then in all of the industrialized world! If it was'nt for the healthcare and defense industries profits, we would only be a former shadow of ourselves!
I don 't understand how any election can be free nevermind fair if it costs 3.5 billion dollars to have an election!
I guess Inequality has become the American way for every facet of our lives!
I please ask that you do not reply with the PC "love it or leave it" Cause we are all entitled to live her no matter how disillusioned we are with our socio-political system! If we disaggree with our society then we should have the right to voice that opinion and the ability to make changes to that system! I am so tired of being looked upon as unAmerican because I dissagree with my countries policies! From the views of TPTB we should all just suffer in silence if we din't like something! Or as Bill O'Reilly likes to say "If we can't support our troops we should just Shut up"! Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

reply to post by newcovenant


at this point im begining to think you have deeper motives. Perhaps you were sent here by some agency to demorilize the free thinkers and attemt to convice others that we are uneducated to help strengthen the beleif in america being fair and just. You have no valid argument on how or why the election is fair and after all, thats the only point of this thread, to discuss how or why the election is or isnt fair and how to fix it. Please move on so we can get back to our convo. If you could just offer one ontopic answer to any question i have asked i will respect you. Untill than i will be ignoring all further posts so dont waste your time.

Originally posted by jeantherapy

Originally posted by BennyTheBlade
reply to post by jeantherapy

 

one important thing you over look. The fine folks running for office still get to vote too and surly they will cast a vote for themselfs. And congress will vote and so will the senate. And wifes and family of canidates will too. It will never be zero votes. Could be justa handful but thats all it takes.

Of course, but if the figures were accurately reported back to us then we could see if only a thousand people in the whole country voted; wouldn't that send some shockwaves?

I personally think that registering for voting and voting is nothing more than data collection for the Elect to see how ready we are for more bread and circuses, along with signing on to be an Employee of the Corporation of the United States and therefore bound to what the constitution claims the Govt is not permitted to do.

You are voting for CEO of said company.

if you found out that Taxes were compulsory for anyone that signed up thru voter registation would you still pay?

Or would you NOT SIGN?

reply to post by hawkiye


i agree

oh right, then theres a Spanish company thats tallying the votes--

mmhhmm, real transparent, real american.

stop voting for the CEOs of these International Corporations, PLEASE!

It's the illusion of choice,nothing more.I love hearing all that "If you don't vote then you have no right to complain and love it or leave it." utter garbage from people who should know better but every 4 years you see them trying to convince themselves and others that their vote really counts.I have to ask how do you keep doing this when it's clear as day that it does not matter who is sitting in the White House?

And on the flip side, why should anyone be allowed to vote in an election if THEY can't be verified.

Almost every country on the planet has laws requiring photo ID to be allowed to vote. It's absolutely insane that Americans allow anyone to vote just on their word that they are who they say that they are.

Originally posted by babybunnies
And on the flip side, why should anyone be allowed to vote in an election if THEY can't be verified.

Almost every country on the planet has laws requiring photo ID to be allowed to vote. It's absolutely insane that Americans allow anyone to vote just on their word that they are who they say that they are.

SSN, Drivers Licenses, I.D.--can all be faked, and frequently the ssns of the dead are used to formulate fakes.

there is NO way to account for every vote. Signatures are worth money and traded on the Black Market.

its all a game, its rigged, and the only way to win is not to play.

After reading this whole thread a lot of people have gotten worked up over the largest Survey besides the National Census. The US presidential election is an indirect vote, sure the electors are trusted to vote as the majority of their districts have...but only in one state: New Mexico it is a felony not to vote the same as the majority of your district did. Want to know what the other states penalties are? A 100 dollar average fine and a slap on the wrist...that is if the state even has a requirement, over half of the states don't.

The political parties nominate the electors, months ahead of the actual election...does any one honestly think that in the over 20 states where members of the Electoral College appointed by their party, getting 1000's if not millions of dollars to vote their way don't or won't? The elector system was setup in the days when every vote couldn't possibly be counted, there was no instant communication all over the world...it was horse back. So in those days the system made sense.

With technology today, every single vote can count...where the push of a button in the voting booth could seal your choice, with a printed receipt as proof...you take that receipt home and log on and punch your receipt number into a 3rd party checks and balances website. There is no need for the Electoral College and it's corruption, they are not recounting 3 or 4 times in districts to be sure; they are counting how many ballots to throw out, to show their chosen victor. There were many many ballots found hidden and tossed in dumpsters after the Bush fiasco, they made sure to draw out some nonsense about hanging chads, to buy time to cover their tracks.

If you think it is a good honest system; then why does it seem that peoples dead relatives, miraculously rise from the dead to place their choice in the big survey.

Vote on the local level, if you really want change. If we want to bring citizens voices back to the table, away from corporations pretending to be people; when in fact they are an entity...we have to vote local, for good honest human beings and send them up the pipe, that's how Ron Paul got there as well as a few others.

reply to post by hawkiye


99% is rather high since most people know the counts at least are fair since they are presided over and watched for fairness and accuracy by someone from both parties. I wish every vote was hand counted because computers can make mistakes. During the 2000 election FL got new voting machines ordered by Jeb Bush after the hanging chad fiasco and there was a newspaper story one brand new machine already had something like 18,000 votes on it so yours is a legitimate question. There is room for error in almost everything but when votes are counted and the issue is a Presidency each side has a stake in making sure the other does not cheat.



Here are some important events in U.S. history that were decided by just a few votes:
www.knoxclerk.org...

Richard Nixon, not John F. Kennedy, would have become President of the U.S. in 1960 if one person from each voting place had voted differently.

If just one U.S. Senator had voted differently, U.S. President Andrew Johnson would have been removed from office in 1867.

Texas might not have become part of the United States in 1845 if one U.S. Senator had voted differently. The vote in the U.S. Senate was 27-25 to invite Texas to become a state. If it had been a tie, Texas would not have been asked to become part of the Union.

Why Vote? FOX NEWS

More than simple responsibility, voting it is a sacred trust bequeathed to us all through the centuries, a proposition for which blood has been spilled many times in each of the succeeding centuries – to preserve that right for ourselves...

Why vote? Because in America, that is the way we change things. That is the way we reform the system. That is the way we guard against the threats to our liberties and exercise our responsibilities. That is the way that we keep America free.... it matters that you vote. It is your voice – and the only person who can silence your voice is you. So applaud, complain, march, protest, petition – these are your rights but, without your vote, they are meaningless actions, backed up by nothing.

reply to post by newcovenant


Yes your right if nixon became president.... JFK would be alive today and wouldn't have been shot. If only less people voted.

reply to post by rainbowbear


I haven't paid income taxes in several years just state sales tax and maybe a sin tax on alcohol.

reply to post by jeantherapy

Is this Mitt Romney?

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


No, I haven't paid income taxes because primarily I have earned too little, most recently my income has been off the books. I am the polar opposite of Romney when it comes to financial standing.

reply to post by hawkiye


You're right. The only way to verify how the pre-determined candidates actually did? Have an independent organization of citizens who canvass individual voters, precinct-by-precinct, state-by-state, and count the votes. I'd give you specific examples of fraud going on in my state, but who wants to die young? Not I.

Please see introduction.

Law versus ethics.

Check out the National Union Party.

If RP had this backing in 2012, like Lincoln did in 1864--->
What's the first word in the first link?

Legally.

I would have voted for Alan Greyson;

reply to post by newcovenant

99% is rather high since most people know the counts at least are fair since they are presided over and watched for fairness and accuracy by someone from both parties.

LOL Seriously? Go back in the thread and find my post where I posted all the evidence. No they don't know no one knows they have no idea what goes on. You have no clue if the vote count is fair. You are assuming it is based on personal belief and nothing more.

One and two sentence replies ("wisecracks") can kill good discussions Please be an example for our newer members and make every post matter.
ATS policy on comments that do not add to the discussion

I keep seeing the same statements by people, so I feel the need to reiterate this.

No one dictates to me what my duties and responsibilities are but me unless I'm being paid to do a job. And even then, I will not perform said job if I take ethical or principled issue with said duties.

No one dictates to me whether or not I can "complain" (read: express disapproval, as is my human and American right) but me.

No degree to which others "take me seriously" on the basis of whether or not I vote is relevant to me. I am free to express myself. You are free to not take me seriously. It's a fair balance in my opinion.

No one dictates to me whether or not I deserve to live here or not. I was born here. I am an American citizen, and am proud to have the right to be saying this, and to refrain from voting or to vote without any compulsory measures in place to force me to do so.

I will not vote for the lesser of what I perceive to be several evils, or take part in a system which I personally regard as being abhorrent. Nor will I tell others what to do with their conscience or their own sense of duty and responsibility. If their conscience demands of them that they vote, then they should vote, and I will not judge them for that or tell them not to.

Those are my principles, beliefs, ethics, and morals, to which I owe my highest allegiance and have the greatest duty to act upon by my standards. And no one will persuade me otherwise.