The 800 Pound Gorilla Everyone Ignores

Originally posted by hawkiye
I'll just get right to the point. Can someone please tell me why I should vote in elections that cant be verified?

edit on 26-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

Why would you vote, even, if the vote could be verified??

Most people in here, says they are against Dictatorship, but still they vote??
60% dictating what the rest of the people should do, is stil a DICTATORSHIP!

But your right, it is not the majority who is dictating at the moment. Your on the right path, continue and you might find some better answers than i can give you

Someone told me today:

Act like your daughters husband

Meaning, do what you want others to do.

If you dont want to be dictated, dont dictat others, so the answer is NO, you should most definitely NOT vote, no matter what. That is, if you are AGAINST dictatorship.

Hope that make some sense to you, have a nice day

reply to post by Kastogere

transitioned into what now resembles a democracy....

You might want to download a new calendar app because it's not April 1st today.........

In case you were not....

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Democracy allows people to participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I said resembles....IE giving the impression that it is without fitting a black and white definition of such....i still don't think you got the point of my post.

And no i wasn't kidding....America is a hooker looking to make easy money on the backs of her people opening far and wide for whoever has the fatter wallet.

Theres no equal say in this country...its a f**kin popularity contest......or do you not see that?

Who would succeed if no-one voted? Seriously, what would happen?

And when politicians backtrack on promises they made to win votes, why can't we have a vote of no confidence on the grounds that they lied? Why should we be forced to have proven liars continue running things? If we have a right to vote them in, why don't we have the right to boot them out?


People are creating their own vote of 'no confidence' in the system, by refusing to vote. How else can people express their lack of confidence in a corrupt system?

Originally posted by Kastogere

I said resembles [referring to democracy]....

Theres no equal say in this country...

Yeah... again read the link I gave you.

"there is no equal say in this country" does NOT resemble democracy.... Christ. Could you be more contradictory?

or do you not see that?

Meh.

reply to post by doobydoll

If we have a right to vote them in, why don't we have the right to boot them out?

And that is democratic.

A very valid question. Not just POTUS but any authoritative position..

Does it bother most people? Guess not.......

Quite sad.

reply to post by hawkiye


We've voted the same way for hundreds of years and so who is to say any of the past presidents were legitimately voted in? Do you think people were more honest years ago and no voter fraud or miscounting of the votes occurred? You say that people were caught voting fraudulently on film. I'd like to see that film. It is not a crime to register to vote under a fictitious name, a dead person or a criminal. It is a crime to commit voter fraud but to do that you have to follow up and actually VOTE. BTW, I think it should be a crime not to vote.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


There's one big problem with that. How are you being represented fairly if you don't get to choose who is representing you in the Electoral College? I don't remember any elections for the Electoral College. Do you?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Did you watch the video i posted? no? Waste of time is it? Just like voting no doubt. Apparently you are willing to accept a text book political definition over the reality of the implications of such. And yes, in a failing democracy, which is what we have now, there is no equal say. Your quoting a black and white definition without realizing the grey area that it creates as we transition into a fascist state of being.

Lemme guess history wasn't your best subject right? Hell even political science doesn't teach in such absolute definitions.

Yes, on paper your definition sounds peachy and righteous...only take a look outside the book and tell me what you see. If reality matches that definition you ran to...then you are more obtuse than I thought you were.

What we live in resembles democracy based on the enforcement trend in the law of the land at the moment and only superficially. However, we are not a republic as we started out to be, and we sure as hell wont be this perceived democracy for much longer.

So, if you believe in your text book definition more power to you. See you in the bread line comrade.

A couple of members hit the nail on the head. Vote in smaller elections that will affect you locally, as they are a bit harder to rig considering things cannot get lost in the shuffle as easily...At least I hope so. As far as voting on a national level, there is no way it is not rigged. Not after all of the evidence we have had to the contrary, which really came to light when Bush first won, although it has undoubtedly been going on before this.

It is true however that electronic voting has exacerbated the problem ten-fold, if not more, as it is much easier to do, and carries much less risk. I wish the majority would take up a campaign calling for major election reforms, and until those demands are met, no one voted. But even if that were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised to see the numbers come up in the usual fashion, the majority of votes simply fabricated of course.

It has been brought to light, by persons affiliated with designing the machines, that they could be rigged. ANY voting methods that are available for use today in the USA are fixable. We need a computer based system with open-source code, with built-in counter-measures, along with personal accountability via surveillance of anyone involved in tabulating the count, etc...There needs to be a system that is either impossible to rig, or a system that would need the complacency of many, many people to succeed in being rigged. That would be better than what we have now, seeing as at least someone may blow the whistle.

Oh, and we need to cut back on the non-violent drug offenders we imprison, while at the same time vastly increasing the number of crooked politicians and those affiliated with them that we put in prison. Maybe I should run for president. Actually, there are probably 500 people on this board that I would rather see in office than many of the candidates we have available to us, or have had available to us in the past...For any major office.

Here's a good example of how *Subversion* Tactics have been used in the Western world.

Imagine all the most powerful people who have the greatest influence in our world,

Have ANY of them been ELECTED into those positions?

No. The CEO of Coca-Cola probably has more say in the running of our countries than our leaders.

Ponder that.

And it all happened under our noses, and not with our objection, hence, may as well be, with our consent.

reply to post by newcovenant


Um why should it be a crime not to vote??? Wouldn't it be a law then not a right?

What happens to the people that have to work when. The polls are open.
Or are you going to pay for the gas to bring all the people unable to drive to the voting office?
Or how about the people in hospitals, will you cure them just so they can come into vote?
Hmm what about the people who have mental disabilities such as Alzheimers? Are you going to lock those people up and pay for them to go to jail.

Just for not voting for someone who wouldn't vote for you. But ok while were at it let's take all rights away and just make them laws. Making the prison system even more crowded than it already is.

That'll show em

Originally posted by TheCaucasianAmerican
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Um why should it be a crime not to vote??? Wouldn't it be a law then not a right?

What happens to the people that have to work when. The polls are open.
Or are you going to pay for the gas to bring all the people unable to drive to the voting office?
Or how about the people in hospitals, will you cure them just so they can come into vote?
Hmm what about the people who have mental disabilities such as Alzheimers? Are you going to lock those people up and pay for them to go to jail.

Just for not voting for someone who wouldn't vote for you. But ok while were at it let's take all rights away and just make them laws. Making the prison system even more crowded than it already is.

That'll show em

Take rights away?
The fastest way to see your rights taken away is to give up your say in what happens.
You do know you can MAIL your vote in, people in hospitals can usually still lick a stamp, solves your gas and transportation problem and most places have early voting, so working is no excuse not to vote. I don't think you've ever voted in your life or you would know all that...anyway...continuing...

If you are a participant in a Democracy and you do not vote, you may never know, much less get, what the majority of people really wants. Say half the people in the country don't vote...what we end up stuck with is only what the VERY INTERESTED PARTIES want. These are people who not only vote they rally others to vote like them. Not a lot of fact checking and making an educated choice, they are followers. What seems like the wrong people get elected because they have a team securing votes for them. These highly driven parties have their own agendas and they don't always coincide with the people but if the people don't get out and vote....all you have left is the Glee Club (you know, that part of the student body that actually CARED) and they are going to get in. Only in this Nations' case that Glee Club consists of huge corporations that want civil rights revoked and to be able to treat workers like modern day slaves, or like China. If not they will take their business to China and get the labor there. They want to put people back to work alright. For double the hours and half the pay. Think about which party wants to keep minimum wage down and NOT to provide workers health care. They have corporate sponsors pulling those strings. Don't kid yourself and don't roll over and play dead. VOTE.

reply to post by hawkiye


First off, thanks for getting right to your point -- unlike way too many rambling posts here.

And I completely agree with you. The US voting system is a sham. And even if your vote sorta counts, 5 of 9 Supreme Court Justices can nullify it. After the 2000 election in which the exit polls contradicted the election results, TPTB apparently did away with exit polls because one never hears about them anymore.

Some have commented about the related issue of the Electoral college, but this issue pertains to all voting, not just for the president.

And if the 800 pound gorilla in the room is this issue, then the elephant in the room is the fact that the government breaks the law all the time in all kinds of respects and/or protects rich/powerful people and companies breaking the law. Another aspect of this is that the government at all levels lies to the people all the time and the stooge "news" media doesn't call them on it.

My only suggestion to a soution is that a grassroots movement for campaign reform and vote verification must begin. This would seem to be an issue that little folk of all political persuasions could agree on. The little guy/gal needs to be separated from the Republican and Democratic parties. Both these parties are controlled by monied interests.

where's the 800 lbs gorilla?

reply to post by hawkiye


Well currently its the Republicans that are working incredibly hard and spending a ton
of money to disenfranchise voters. This is happening everywhere but especially in
swing states like Pennsylvania Ohio and Wisconsin. So I have a feeling your vote counts.
This sneaky work, and the millions of dollars spent, say so.

And it appears that many replies say "whatever.. they are both the same."
Which I feel is what people say when their candidate is losing.
They are certainly not the same. Big differences in governing and direction.

How can myself and many others vote with confidence when we believe the whole voting system is rigged?

Would any of you play cards if you believed that the dealer is a cheat?

reply to post by hawkiye


Even if the vote was fairly counted I wouldn't want to vote either candidate anyways.

The only difference between obama and romney is ones black ones white...when it comes to doing anything that may actually benifit the average american citizen they will both side with the corporate shadows lining their bankbooks.

The whole idea of a party system is a joke and an illusion to make us believe we are being given choices. In the end, anyone who our government tells us we need to vote for and force feeds us through the media are nothing but puppets to the machine.

Until an average citizen, with an average background can run for office and receive the same respect and facetime as the multi-million dollar funded counterparts we are forced to choose from, the system will remain corrupt and broken.

i would say its more like the 180 lb gorilla in the room.


i wont vote for either one of them

I couldn't agree with you more. McCain had proof of voter fraud in Ohio, I believe it was, back in 2008 and he did nothing, in fear of being called a racist. I truly believe that with the last elections, things took a turn for the worst. It seems that with everything Obama touches, nothing is off-limits and the rules go out the window. If he can find an under-handed way to game the system, he has no problem doing just that. Don't get me wrong, I believe all politicians lie and mislead but Obama has taken it to a whole new level. From untraceable campaign donations to his ACORN minions registering NFL football teams to vote, these people have absolutely no sense of integrity or doing the right thing.

Think about the arrogance of that man; he has spent millions of dollars to keep his past hidden but has the audacity to call on Mitt Romney to release more tax returns than is required of him. Sure, tax returns were easy for Obama; he was a loser who never had a real job to speak of...nothing to hide there. He never owned or ran a business so that's a non-issue. For all practical purposes, he's a lifetime ward of the state, living off of everybody else's hard work. He has absolutely no problem playing the race card anytime things get heated and the Republicans let him get away with it.

Yea, I agree, our elections are broken and we can't believe anybody. The voting machines are insecure and TPTB already know who they want to win the election. We see fraud being investigated but we don't see any elections nullified because of it. We have candidates suing individual states because they don't like their voter laws; anything to get an extra vote or two, regardless of whether or not those votes are legitimate.

When somebody has an issue with voter ID laws, that tells me one thing; they don't care if illegal votes are cast. Notice how it's the Republican side that has no problem with making sure only legal votes are counted but the Democrats take issue with that, under the guise of not wanting to "disenfranchise" poor people. Hmm, if your platform actually worked, you wouldn't have such a large base of poor people, now would you?

But, I'll vote just like I always do. It may be for naught, but at least I know I'm participating in the civic process.