Ayn Rand The Whore of Babylon - Mitt Romney The False Prophet - Paul Ryan The Antichrist?

reply to post by thomas81z


"didnt know prophecy was done by political affiliation"

nope,, just what people do in reality...

If a dirt bag happens to be a politician ( ) and what they do effects many people of the world,, maybe prophecy can relate to that happening.....

or no,, guessing about the future draws its line at politics?

This thread is ridiculous.

Anyone that bashes Ayn Rand for Objectivism missed the points of all her writings (if the books and papers were even read at all).

Ayn Rand believed that the State exists to support Man - not that Man exists for the sake of the State. Is that ignoble? Are we supposed to be slaves to the government? This is clearly put early on in "We the Living".

She says that the gifted should not be inhibited; people with aspirations should be allowed to climb as high as they can. These people are your innovators. They push society forward. They better our standard of living. Is this wrong? Should we keep those people down? Should we not celebrate and encourage individualism and creativity in all its forms?

On greed as a virtue, she isn't using greed in the sense that most people are accustomed to. It's not necessarily monetary. It is to live your life how you see fit. To climb as high as you can on your own merit. She isn't telling people to take from others. Have you all read "The Fountainhead"? How did you miss this if you have?

Ayn Rand's works become evil when viewed through the lens of conventional humanity. When you don't actually pay attention to what she's writing - when you react without reasoning - you miss the point. My advice would be to (re)read what she wrote. Actually reflect on it, and don't start in on it with a sour disposition. Everything she's expressing in her novels is noble...

...but like Democracy, and like Socialism, and like Communism...like all things dreamed up by Man, the philosophy of Objectivism is limited by Man. The inherent problems with people as a whole is what limits her ideas. People always try and abuse the system - no matter what is. We will always have "bad apples". Those people that ruin "ideal" forms of government are those that ruin Objectivism.

As I already said, I urge people that disregard her to reread her books and actually try to understand what is being said. Her ideas are not inherently evil. It's those that would twist her thoughts that are.

reply to post by NeutralGuard


Instead of writing all those books why didnt she just write a poem .....

" Man is great, do what you want"

reply to post by ImaFungi
I'm sure all books and all movies and all plays could be succinctly wrapped up by one or two lines that express their theme, and yet they all still exist. I don't really feel any further comment is necessary.

Originally posted by NeutralGuard
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

I'm sure all books and all movies and all plays could be succinctly wrapped up by one or two lines that express their theme, and yet they all still exist. I don't really feel any further comment is necessary.

ok ok,.,.., well the way i see it is the complexity of her writing about the complexity of reality and the human situation is what turned you on.,,.,. when I simplify her ideas, and overlay them over reality and the human situation,, I dont think Its a tidy solution to "the" or any problem/s.......
you can say,.,. "thats exactly my point!!! there are no problems,, as long as man is fulfilling his desires"
but my biggest problem,, is having everyone accept that everyone needs not to worry about anyone else,, which is not so bad in my opinion and would be fine,,, if,, i believed that all men were completely innocent,, therefore I think if noone in the world were focusing on the complete picture of humans in the world and what they were doing and working towards, and how their actions affected one another and the whole,, i think civilization would be a bigger mess then it already is.,,.,. i think by noone watching out for the whole,, noone caring about what anyone else is doing ,,, is how small groups of people gain massive amount of power, wealth, and control over a massive amount of people,, and can inflict their desires and vision of reality onto them.,,. this kind of thing is admired and praised by ayn rand,,, robberbarrons,, monopolies,, banking cartels,.,, praise the successful!! please let us shine your shoes!!! God truly loves thee for having thy father die and grant you his inheritance, you are now our master!

this is about the masses being sheep,,, and when the sheep are unaware of the nature of the pastures they dwell in,,, they are potentially allowing wolves to become there sheapards,, well not letting them, they have no choice,, because the wolves rose to power,,, but we should let them because they dont care about us and they are glorious and powerful, we should give up our basic human nature to become slaves of the elite, wealthy and powerful,, for they are the ones that really built civilization,,,

Ayn rand will always be a C word in my mind, and thats just my opinion,, i admire her free thinking but her ideals are devolution,, even though she and you believe the opposite,,

let's stop giving credit/blame to god, and credit/blame to the devil...these are human beings that are simply bad people...make them take responsibility for their actions, and quit blaming mythical beings.

reply to post by ImaFungi

If you read any of the transcripts of her speeches or Q&A sessions, she makes it pretty clear that she doesn't believe people should turn a blind eye to the plight of others. She says that it should be up to the individual to assess whether or not he/she can help, and to help out if they want to. The government should not dictate that to a person. That line of thinking is not evil.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Firstly, to the poster that said they don't "like" what I posted; reality doesn't ask you what your preference is. It simply is what it is. It requires humility to pay attention and accept the truth. I understand how you feel, but if you ever decide to follow God then you will not only no longer dislike this understanding about prophecy but you will actually be comforted by it.

As for the poster who claimed to not know the Sabbath, the Sabbath is easily discerned. I am a little bit angry that you are so lazy as to not even look it up. EVERYONE has access to a search engine. But I will attempt to have patience with you and give you a little information (and if you don't believe me, then ask any spanish speaking person - considering their word for Sabbath, "Sabado" is also the name of the day on their calendar which IS the Sabbath)

Originally posted by NeutralGuard
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

If you read any of the transcripts of her speeches or Q&A sessions, she makes it pretty clear that she doesn't believe people should turn a blind eye to the plight of others. She says that it should be up to the individual to assess whether or not he/she can help, and to help out if they want to. The government should not dictate that to a person. That line of thinking is not evil.

yes but humanity is so much larger then one person,..,..of course you and every other person should mostly worry about themselves,, this is the idea of le redneck,, only worried about whats going on in your immediate area, community,, and why the heck shouldnt you be! but, fortunately or unfortunately the world has changed,,technologically, scientifically, socially, medically, globally, and we are now able to be aware of almost anything,.,.., everyone should consider their interests first,,, but if we objectively view that picture,, that means everyone is considering their own interests,,, the way I look at it is there are necessities that all humans share which by nature are humans first and foremost interests,,, This argument really only comes down to the poor,, if they cannot afford to put food in their stomachs each day,, how can they have the opportunity you think they have, to afford to buy into the high stake game of life which now exists,.,, if harmlessly to you, possible, why wouldnt you and everyone want to see a progressive change to the world which allows all people to be a productive part of ones society, and at the very least eat and be sheltered for their slave work?

you think the problem of poverty will fix itself,,, or you dont think its a problem because you are not worried about it,,, if a problem falls in a world and noones there to notice is it a problem?
do what you gotta do mang, but there will no doubt come a time when all people are seen more as equals,, and this will not be a negative thing,,, equal not in the same house same car sense,, but equal in that everyone can eat, work, and be considered a member of humanity and their society..

reply to post by TarzanBeta

thank you, it seems you have done your homework. day by day my friend

Originally posted by ImaFungi
yes but humanity is so much larger then one person,..,..of course you and every other person should mostly worry about themselves,, this is the idea of le redneck,, only worried about whats going on in your immediate area, community,, and why the heck shouldnt you be!

If you're going to just sling insults around, there's no point in talking to you.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
but, fortunately or unfortunately the world has changed,,technologically, scientifically, socially, medically, globally, and we are now able to be aware of almost anything,.,.., everyone should consider their interests first,,, but if we objectively view that picture,, that means everyone is considering their own interests,,, the way I look at it is there are necessities that all humans share which by nature are humans first and foremost interests,,, This argument really only comes down to the poor,, if they cannot afford to put food in their stomachs each day,, how can they have the opportunity you think they have, to afford to buy into the high stake game of life which now exists,.,, if harmlessly to you, possible, why wouldnt you and everyone want to see a progressive change to the world which allows all people to be a productive part of ones society, and at the very least eat and be sheltered for their slave work?

I don't want to see a "progressive" change to the world, because it is not progress. It is a step down the other side of a slope.

It has taken centuries, if not thousands of years, for Man to push off tyrants in favor of governing themselves; to take freedoms that should have been theirs from the outset and do what they will with their own, limited time on this earth. Upon climbing to the top of that mountain, why would you willingly shackle yourself to a collectivist idea of "working toward the common good"? There is absolutely nothing wrong with helping people out, and there is nothing wrong with giving back to society, but you should NEVER give control over yourself to government. You should never write a blank check that allows them to dictate what you must do.

We still have most of the liberties and rights that our forefathers fought for. Why relinquish them little by little? Why give a government the freedom to make more and more decisions for you? Are you incapable of deciding what is the best use of your money or time? Of course not. In fact, you know better than some random bureaucrat.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
you think the problem of poverty will fix itself,,, or you dont think its a problem because you are not worried about it,,, if a problem falls in a world and noones there to notice is it a problem?
do what you gotta do mang, but there will no doubt come a time when all people are seen more as equals,, and this will not be a negative thing,,, equal not in the same house same car sense,, but equal in that everyone can eat, work, and be considered a member of humanity and their society..

Please don't presume anything on my behalf, because every single time you've done so, you've been wrong. Poverty cannot fix itself. We will never live in a utopian society where this is a reality. Poverty is not a permanent way of life; it should be a temporary state of being. If, however, someone cannot make it out of poverty, how is this my fault? I should give more and more of my money and time (being taxed money is time you're being forced to surrender) so that others can sit and not move upward?

There are always exceptions, but those exceptions go both ways, so they aren't even worth citing.

If we tax all earners at 25% to save the impoverished, and that does not eliminate poverty, do we tax everyone at 26%, then? Do we do that in the name of society and humanity? When 26% does not work, do tax at 30%? When that, too, fails, how about jumping to 50%? Is 50% of all wages enough to save everyone?

What happens when people can make more on welfare from the government than they can working (due to how heavily they're taxed)? Are they allowed to quit their jobs and take a handout from the government? Or can we use force to make them keep working?

Do you see what I am getting at? These are precisely the things Ayn Rand writes about. It isn't ever to be mean. It's not about being calloused and having no soul. We don't trade tyrant kings for tyrant masses; we aren't slaves to anyone but ourselves.

Why is this backwards to you? Why do you presume I am uneducated or a "redneck" for wanting to see people achieve?

reply to post by NeutralGuard


"If you're going to just sling insults around, there's no point in talking to you. "

I wasnt attempting to insult you.,,.,. that truly is my understanding of the term redneck and what it means,, i was not calling you one,, someone living in the boonies is the last person i would expect to be concerned whats going on in africa,,, its just obvious,,.

reply to post by NeutralGuard


" We will never live in a utopian society where this is a reality. Poverty is not a permanent way of life; it should be a temporary state of being. If, however, someone cannot make it out of poverty, how is this my fault? I should give more and more of my money and time (being taxed money is time you're being forced to surrender) so that others can sit and not move upward? "

im not saying its your fault,,, humanity has nothing to do with you,,, it has to do with all humans,, which is billions of yous....

all im suggesting is a revamping of perception of necessity,, eradicating of war and conflict,,, and not taking your tax dollars to do so,, but make it easier for the poor to get jobs,.,. theres always productive work that needs to be done,,,, at the very least the poor can work for companies in factories pushing buttons or in farms picking crops,,, this resembles slavery but if the alternative is death or making you upset receiving handouts,, and they are able to push a button, or pick crops for pay,,, why not? food is the biggest necessity.,,. im not asking you to really worry or do anything,.,.,. but just think about if the world can be made different, to not infringe on your freedoms, but at the same time give every human a productive job, and the opportunity to live in society.,,

i disagree when you say the world cant be a utopia,, i disagree when you say poverty can not be done away with,.,.

parts of the world are already utopian and have been since the beginning of earth,, human systems and creations have been successfully ideal,,,. your freedom filled life is a good example of idealism and utopian,,,,, i may be wrong again assuming but i guess in your lie poverty has been done away with ( i know how hard you work and how much you hate the freeloaders (( i know how wrong i am for assuming that)).,,.,.

but yea,,, its either not my problem ad infinitum and all these problems repeat themselves for future generations and beyond,,,, or its,,, we are intelligent,,, we are human,,, there is a solution to every problem,.,.

reply to post by NeutralGuard


I would never ask you to give control of your life over to the government,,, the government is a wild beast that needs to be tamed,, but thats what the world and its inhabitants get for praising an economic system based off of chaos,,, just like nature is based off of chaos, look at the wild beasts it has manifested,,,. what sets us apart from this nature was our ability to cooperate in uber complex ways of intellect, concepts and information,,.,.,. we all want to eat,, we all want to reproduce,,, we all want to enjoy our time,,,, why cant we?

In all honesty, Where do some of you people get off?

To believe that the anti Christ, the beast and false prophet all come from the great USA.
The USA may be the middle of some peoples universe, but in all honesty, a large proportion of the world really dislike it and what it stands for.
Surely wouldn't it be more logical to have a person that all can admire be the anti Christ?
Someone who will be admired by all nations and religions?

Whilst some may believe that the US is the new Babylon, I think we need to look outside the US for the anti Christ

reply to post by ImaFungi


I'm always astonished how conservatives want to point the finger at the poor, disenfranchised, and impoverished as the problem in America all the while ignoring corporate welfare and war profiteers funded by the taxpayers.

www.humanevents.com...

costofwar.com...

Ideology getting in the way of common sense yet again.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by NeutralGuard

 

" We will never live in a utopian society where this is a reality. Poverty is not a permanent way of life; it should be a temporary state of being. If, however, someone cannot make it out of poverty, how is this my fault? I should give more and more of my money and time (being taxed money is time you're being forced to surrender) so that others can sit and not move upward? "

im not saying its your fault,,, humanity has nothing to do with you,,, it has to do with all humans,, which is billions of yous....

all im suggesting is a revamping of perception of necessity,, eradicating of war and conflict,,, and not taking your tax dollars to do so,, but make it easier for the poor to get jobs,.,. theres always productive work that needs to be done,,,, at the very least the poor can work for companies in factories pushing buttons or in farms picking crops,,, this resembles slavery but if the alternative is death or making you upset receiving handouts,, and they are able to push a button, or pick crops for pay,,, why not? food is the biggest necessity.,,. im not asking you to really worry or do anything,.,.,. but just think about if the world can be made different, to not infringe on your freedoms, but at the same time give every human a productive job, and the opportunity to live in society.,,

i disagree when you say the world cant be a utopia,, i disagree when you say poverty can not be done away with,.,.

parts of the world are already utopian and have been since the beginning of earth,, human systems and creations have been successfully ideal,,,. your freedom filled life is a good example of idealism and utopian,,,,, i may be wrong again assuming but i guess in your lie poverty has been done away with ( i know how hard you work and how much you hate the freeloaders (( i know how wrong i am for assuming that)).,,.,.

but yea,,, its either not my problem ad infinitum and all these problems repeat themselves for future generations and beyond,,,, or its,,, we are intelligent,,, we are human,,, there is a solution to every problem,.,.

You say that parts of the world already are utopian, and that they have been for ages. Like what? The United States is not an appropriate example.

And you're still being very condescending, but I suppose that's your right.

Since you know there are solutions to all of these problems, what are they? You know there are answers, so you must hold them. Please, share them.

You're not going to give any specifics. At best, you'll give some vague, good-vibes answer that either doesn't hold water or would never be implemented.

I am not arrogant enough to presume that I know everything or that I have all the answers. I am certainly not smart enough for that. Neither are you. And there isn't one single person on this planet that smart, either. Nor is there a collective that can solve all our problems. If there were, they would have come out.

No, the general population will continue pushing back and forth on issues that have no real solution, and as you're doing, they'll do so with vitriol (even if masked). Because most people on this planet believe they have the right to tell others how to live their lives. You must believe that you, too, can tell other people how to live. Otherwise, you wouldn't be arguing against my stance.

The position of the collectivist is one of arrogance, and it can only do more harm than good. I understand that it's well intentioned; I don't believe for one moment that you don't believe your stance is for the betterment of Man. I am sure that you are sincere. But every time something like that is tried, it collapses beneath itself.

I'm not sure which flavor of collectivism you adhere to, but I also don't believe it really matters. The Soviets, well-intentioned as they probably were, couldn't stop from imploding. Everything you read about North Korea sounds like they're living in Hell on Earth. Even China has had to turn to more capitalist views. When the point of living is to live for everyone else, there is no point in living.

And again, I have not said that we shouldn't help out those in need. I have stated (multiple times) that people should decide for themselves who to give to and what is an appropriate amount. Why do you keep ignoring this?

As for "people in Africa"... How can we help? Give them money and food? We already do that, and it isn't helping. The best thing for "Africans" (in quotes, because it applies to anyone being oppressed) to do is to figure out how they want to be governed or move. It is that simple. You won't fill a bottomless pit by shoveling more dirt into the hole.

Sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me and somehow the names of all these 'characters' change every election year.

As for "jobs pushing buttons", if those jobs existed, they would be filled by your "poor people". But they don't. If people wanted to pay others to "simply push buttons", they would. But they don't.

Why?

Are employers cold and heartless? Do they not care about the poor? Of course not.

Then what is the problem? Who is preventing all of these people from working?

Well, the answer (in part) is you. And me. And every other person that shops around for the best prices. Every person that values their time is the problem. When you shop for lower prices, you encourage the people that own businesses to drive their costs down. You cause them to compete. They will pay the lowest wages that they can. They will employ automation. They will off-shore. They will do what they have to do to get your business.

And it's not necessarily wrong for you to do so; you appear to have a globalist viewpoint. In your own way, you're helping the impoverished of other countries. I won't condemn you for that. Everyone does it, to a degree. But I do want to highlight that you are part of the problem. To hire people to simply "push buttons" adds an additional cost that will be passed on to the consumer. It will drive prices up. So your simple solution is no solution at all. It hurts business, in fact. It causes businesses to cease being competitive and costs jobs.

reply to post by NeutralGuard


very eloquently put,,, sorry for being condescending but im passionate about this topic,,,,.

If you dont think there are any problems,, there are no need for solutions,.,.

if you think there are problems, but no solutions,, that is your solution.,.,.

I am only saying the process of human progression,, the nature of technological progression, and progression of human intelligence,, will only lead to all humans coexisting on the same lofty plateau of prosperity,.,,

if humans continue to progress that is inevitable,,, until then we can agree to disagree,,, I just wish that occurrence was sooner then later,,, you cant see that time coming its so far off in the future,,,, some people probably dont want to ever see that happen for they like to have people below them to measure their own success and worth,,, I can imagine this occurring thousands of years ago,, I can imagine it occurring right around the corner,.,..