Hebrew Alphabet is based on the Star of David..

reply to post by adjensen


I noticed it again on his site; not saying which is where I got it.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by adjensen

 

I noticed it again on his site; not saying which is where I got it.

Where you got what? A longer version of the Gospel of Thomas?

So you mean to say that this Richard Cassaro guy, who is behind that Freemason page of yours, and who cites a quote from Thomas that doesn't exist, also claims to have a longer version of that text than the only surviving copy from Nag Hammadi? Do you see a connection there, perhaps?

reply to post by adjensen


This is not at all what I said. You are creating fictitious arguments and attributing them to myself. I believe this is referred to as a straw-man argument?

What I said was, his website was not the first place that I have seen that quote or reference.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by adjensen

 

This is not at all what I said. You are creating fictitious arguments and attributing them to myself. I believe this is referred to as a straw-man argument?

What I said was, his website was not the first place that I have seen that quote or reference.

No, I'm not creating a fictitious argument, you just keep confusing things. You said that you had a version of The Gospel of Thomas which is longer than the one that I sent you, and I am still waiting for you to produce a link to it.

And I would like to see what other web site you've seen that quote, because as I said earlier, his website is the only place that has part of it: "By union with each other and union within oneself" (although it now also returns this thread; and I'm not being snarky by using lmgtfy.com -- the google link itself breaks ATS)

reply to post by adjensen


Labeling is against my religion, champ... Ooops, that slipped.

One Of the Best Books on the Subject of not just the Letters of Alphabets, but of Number and how they are Embedded into All aspects of Life is one of the Best Books I have Ever had the pleasure to read.

A Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe

If you take this book and use it as a study guide for a few weeks, slowly absorbing all the information it will ultimately change the way you view the Universe and your place within it.

Trouble is modern Hebrew script is not the same as the ancient Hebrew script that was written 2500 to 3000 years ago when most of the Old Testament was written. This Alphabet was not as square as modern Hebrew which takes its written script off Aramaic. Sorry.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


That's no secret among the Jewish people, I've known that since I as a kid.

reply to post by adjensen


I am not confusing anything. You are still continuing to put words into my mouth. I did not say I have copy of the longer Gospel of Matthew. I'm saying that which you posted is merely a condensed version rather than a full text.

reply to post by adjensen


www.amazon.com...

This would be a start for you.

Also

48) Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in this one house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move Away,' and it will move away."

It appears that it is a quote/combination of 48 and 106.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by adjensen

 

I am not confusing anything. You are still continuing to put words into my mouth. I did not say I have copy of the longer Gospel of Matthew. I'm saying that which you posted is merely a condensed version rather than a full text.

Sigh.

No, it isn't. The Gospel of Thomas is a "sayings Gospel", not a narrative. It is a list of things that the author was claiming Christ said. There is no story to it, just random sayings and discourses. It is not a "Reader's Digest" version of the "real" Gospel of Thomas, those 114 sayings are all there is and likely all that there ever was.

As a historian, it is interesting, because textually, the things that we know Christ said (because they are also in the New Testament,) appear to be closer to what he actually said (hence the belief that some of Thomas may either pre-date the NT Gospels, or have been copied from a source that pre-dated them.) Then there are the things that we know Christ could not have said, because they represent a form of Second Century Gnosticism.

And what is left are things that Christ MIGHT have said, but which are not in the Bible. Those are the interesting ones, because they would represent new facts about Christ and his teachings. Unfortunately, Thomas has been intentionally written in such a way as to confuse the actual sayings of Christ with the fake ones, so there is no way to tell if the ones he might have said, he actually did.

reply to post by adjensen

(22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

106) Jesus said, "When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will move away."

www.sacred-texts.com...

www.gnosis.org...

You were saying?

reply to post by adjensen


I did not mean that to be taken as referring to a 'narrative'. I meant more along the lines of missing sentences and etc. Sort of like the Bible is really a condensed version of all the works that make it up; but how pieces are missing like the Gospel of Thomas, Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees, and others.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by adjensen

 

I did not mean that to be taken as referring to a 'narrative'. I meant more along the lines of missing sentences and etc.

No, that is not correct. The Gospel of Thomas, as presented, is as complete as we know it to be -- there is nothing left out.

Sort of like the Bible is really a condensed version of all the works that make it up; but how pieces are missing like the Gospel of Thomas, Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees, and others.

No, that is also not correct. The books that are not present are not "missing", any more than a James Michner novel is missing from my collection of Ian Fleming novels.

Setting aside the books you feel are missing from the Hebrew Bible, I will explain why the Gospel of Thomas is not a part of the New Testament. The books that were selected weren't chosen at random, there was specific criteria for their inclusion. Which was:

1) A book had to have an Apostolic connection - it had to have been written by an Apostle, or by someone working with an Apostle
2) A book had to be in general, widespread use - it couldn't just be used in a couple of churches here and there
3) A book had to contain teaching that was in harmony with all other accepted scripture

So, let's look at Thomas, with these criteria in mind. It fails test #1, because it was not written by, or with, anyone who was an Apostle. It is claimed to be written by Judas, the twin brother of Jesus. Only in the Syriac Christian community was such a bizarre notion claimed. It fails test #2, because it was only used by Gnostic Christian churches. And it fails test #3, because its Gnostic teachings are in complete conflict with the Old Testament, as well as the other circulating Christian texts (which would later become the New Testament) at the time Thomas was written.

So, I hope that you can see that it is not "missing" -- it has no business being in the Christian Bible, because Gnostic Christianity is a different religion. Their texts have as much use to a Christian as the Koran or the Vedas -- nothing wrong with reading them, but there is no insight into Christianity to be found within.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by adjensen

 

One wonders however, about what I would call the 12 emanations of the Magi, and if some of those streams might have been stamped out by a seek and destroy mission once the official cannon of the Bible was laid in stone. There was an inner INNER circle of secret wisdom teachings that Jesus initated his disciples into, where did that go?

Jesus revealed secrets from the foundation of the world, he revealed the meanings of the parables to them and they passed them to us. The people he kept secrets from were the pharisees because he was passing judgement on them so they couldn't be saved. He came to "give sight to the blind and blind those who saw".

John 9:39-41

39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”

40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”

41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

And this was prophecy of judgement came from:

Exodus 32:33-34

33 And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. 34 Now therefore, go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you. Behold, My Angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit for punishment, I will visit punishment upon them for their sin.”

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas

(22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."
You were saying?

As I already told the guy who thinks that Paul is a Gnostic, for some reason, while there are some common words in those two passages, they are clearly not the same quote. Inside/outside, upper/lower, male/female are generic dualist terms, so their duplication doesn't mean anything, particularly when you compare how they are used -- male and female, in particular, are used in very different manners. In addition, "when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom." does not appear in your Freemason quote at all.

No, these are not the same quotes, unless the translator who did the Freemason version was a complete dolt.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by adjensen

 

One wonders however, about what I would call the 12 emanations of the Magi, and if some of those streams might have been stamped out by a seek and destroy mission once the official cannon of the Bible was laid in stone. There was an inner INNER circle of secret wisdom teachings that Jesus initated his disciples into, where did that go?

Forgot to reply to this, thanks for reminding me, Lonewolf

Christianity is an open religion -- everything that we need to know for salvation can be found within the pages of the Bible. So if the bit in the Bible about Jesus sharing "secret knowledge" with the Apostles wasn't about just explaining his parables, if it was not later revealed, we know that it was of no importance to us. It might have been something about preaching methods, or something of their future, or how to do miracles, but whatever it is, it doesn't concern us.

Contrast that with Gnosticism, which would require one to find a "master", study under him for years and years (paying the whole time, one presumes) and, once you were considered "worthy", he might share with you the Gnosis. God help ya if he died while you were still studying, lol.

I had a discussion with someone on here a long time ago, who claimed that they were a Gnostic, but she had no idea what the Gnosis was. I teased her for a while, but eventually told her what it was. I think she was disappointed, lol.

reply to post by adjensen


I guess it's a good thing I'm not a Christian, then isn't it? I decide for my self what I want to learn and believe.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by adjensen

 

I guess it's a good thing I'm not a Christian, then isn't it? I decide for my self what I want to learn and believe.

Yes, that is a very good thing! The most important thing to remember, though, is that truth is truth, regardless of whether we agree with it or not.

You have made a number of factual errors in this thread, but have been mature enough to recognize many of them and admit your error, which sets you apart from a significant percentage of ATS posters. I am not here to change minds, I'm simply here to correct mis-statements of fact, so I appreciate when people acknowledge their error and veer back toward the truth.

reply to post by adjensen

So, let's look at Thomas, with these criteria in mind.

So, I hope that you can see that it is not "missing" -- it has no business being in the Christian Bible, because Gnostic Christianity is a different religion.

Brainwashing goes deep. So it's mostly quotes from Jesus, left out of a book about Jesus.