Gun Ownership should they be a restriction or ban on semi or full auto weapons

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by SGTSECRET


As for semi automatic weapons, I do not support any kind of ban. Too many people are confused when they hear semi automatic and assault rifle. Many hunting rifles are also semi automatic, and more than half handguns sold are also semi auto. The only difference between these hunting rifles and so called 'assault rifles' sold to the public are how they look. They fire the same types of ammunition and carry multiple rounds within the weapon. People are just scared of the word 'assault' I suppose.

edit on 9-8-2012 by SGTSECRET because: correction

Well, hold the phone there. The only ASSAULT rifles that any U.S. citizen can be using legally are NOT fully automatic, they are semi-automatic. An AR 15, a mini 14, etc....they are only legal as semi-automatics. If you jack with them and make them fully automatic then you're in possession of an illegal weapon. So that legislation is already there.

edit on 8-9-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

And where did I say we can buy fully auto weapons? I'm holding the phone...trying to find out how this is a reply to me. Might want to read that all again... Says right there "the only difference between hunting rifles and assault rifles SOLD TO THE PUBLIC are how they look." That means they are all semi auto genius.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by doobydoll
Citizens owning guns means the police force have to be armed too, and I don't like the thought of that at all.

Look what happens in the USA, why only yesterday I read a thread on here about armed police in America raiding the wrong address and shooting some family's pet dog dead in front of a terrified child. Absolutely horrific.

But cops in the USA have to be armed because the citizens are armed, I would never go live there because it seems that everyone there has at least 1 gun each. Everyone risks being shot because of it. Life is difficult enough without worrying if I or my family might get shot to death by a neighbour, or even a cop. No thanks.

If I had a magic wand, I'd make every weapon of every description in the world disappear into thin air. I can dream

Incorrect. Cops have to be armed because the CRIMINALS have guns. We can't possibly be deluding ourselves into believing we can prevent CRIMINALS from having banned weapons are we? Even the OP admitted that in the UK guns are banned but they are boring them out to shoot live ammo. So...? The cops have guns to protect themselves from the CRIMINALS, not the legal, law-abiding armed citizen.

edit on 8-9-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

That's a load of rubbish.

Criminals in the US are all armed because it's too easy to for anyone to get a gun there, even legally. This is why ALL your crims are armed and dangerous. The police force have to be armed because most, if not all your citizens are armed.

This is not so in the UK.
Some of our crims are armed, and we have specialist armed response cop units to deal with gun criminals. Our citizens are not armed, and therefore our street cops don't need to carry guns either.

Even if ALL UK criminals have been or are armed today, our cops still don't have guns. What do you think to that then?

Text Orangereply to post by SGTSECRET


I just want to point out a few things since the UN talked about gun banning in the USA we started having all the crazy come out and start shooting guns dont kill people do and so does the goverment this we know they are trying to take our guns away.A people that cant shoot back is a people easy to control.We alll need to wake up and smell the coffee.Its also fact that smoking ciggs still kills more then guns.The world is changing faster then we all want.I dont want wars I want a good life for my kid but see she wont get it til something changes.I want the right to go hunting deer meats way more better any hows lol.But I also want the right to bare arms to be able to protect my family.Iam damn tired of elites telling us how we are gonna live.America lost its way to greed and our poor fathers our turning in there grave over it.Since the begining of this year I have heard so many things about us being killed off iam sick of it.Fact of my findings is alot at RT news and Infowars.com.The military kills way more people with guns then good people do do.Not knocking our military they do what there told but if you ban guns with us then ban them with them to and you know they wont make this fair so its comes to being about our rights again.We arent the fight people its we people by the people for the people well thats how it used to be.I still love america its just so lost i feel sad for everyone that can see whats happen

Originally posted by SGTSECRET

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by SGTSECRET


As for semi automatic weapons, I do not support any kind of ban. Too many people are confused when they hear semi automatic and assault rifle. Many hunting rifles are also semi automatic, and more than half handguns sold are also semi auto. The only difference between these hunting rifles and so called 'assault rifles' sold to the public are how they look. They fire the same types of ammunition and carry multiple rounds within the weapon. People are just scared of the word 'assault' I suppose.

edit on 9-8-2012 by SGTSECRET because: correction

Well, hold the phone there. The only ASSAULT rifles that any U.S. citizen can be using legally are NOT fully automatic, they are semi-automatic. An AR 15, a mini 14, etc....they are only legal as semi-automatics. If you jack with them and make them fully automatic then you're in possession of an illegal weapon. So that legislation is already there.

edit on 8-9-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

And where did I say we can buy fully auto weapons? I'm holding the phone...trying to find out how this is a reply to me. Might want to read that all again... Says right there "the only difference between hunting rifles and assault rifles SOLD TO THE PUBLIC are how they look." That means they are all semi auto genius.

Sorry! I didn't mean that to sound like I was speaking directly to YOU. I was just stating that because both the OP as well as some other posts in this thread (including yours) were worded in a way that seemed to equate ASSAULT to fully automatic. Didn't mean to be so pointed directly at you. No need to search any longer on how it applies personally!

Originally posted by doobydoll

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by doobydoll
Citizens owning guns means the police force have to be armed too, and I don't like the thought of that at all.

Look what happens in the USA, why only yesterday I read a thread on here about armed police in America raiding the wrong address and shooting some family's pet dog dead in front of a terrified child. Absolutely horrific.

But cops in the USA have to be armed because the citizens are armed, I would never go live there because it seems that everyone there has at least 1 gun each. Everyone risks being shot because of it. Life is difficult enough without worrying if I or my family might get shot to death by a neighbour, or even a cop. No thanks.

If I had a magic wand, I'd make every weapon of every description in the world disappear into thin air. I can dream

Incorrect. Cops have to be armed because the CRIMINALS have guns. We can't possibly be deluding ourselves into believing we can prevent CRIMINALS from having banned weapons are we? Even the OP admitted that in the UK guns are banned but they are boring them out to shoot live ammo. So...? The cops have guns to protect themselves from the CRIMINALS, not the legal, law-abiding armed citizen.

edit on 8-9-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

That's a load of rubbish.

Criminals in the US are all armed because it's too easy to for anyone to get a gun there, even legally. This is why ALL your crims are armed and dangerous. The police force have to be armed because most, if not all your citizens are armed.

This is not so in the UK.
Some of our crims are armed, and we have specialist armed response cop units to deal with gun criminals. Our citizens are not armed, and therefore our street cops don't need to carry guns either.

Even if ALL UK criminals have been or are armed today, our cops still don't have guns. What do you think to that then?

edit on 9-8-2012 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)

You really don't know what you're talking about. Maybe it's that big distance between you and the actually place you're speaking of that has your perspective off. No, not ALL our criminals are armed. And HELLO! You just admitted you have to have armed police forces for those armed criminals over there.

reply to post by gavlar1974


Let me get this straight. You are perfectly OK with letting the criminals go around with about any weapon they want, while limiting law abiding citizens like yourself to nothing?

You are perfectly OK with the idea that the only thing you can basically do during a break in is call the local bobbies which will probably show up in half an hour, or possibly the next day? When they get there, they can take a few fingerprints, and try to identify your body. Hopefully they will clean up the mess.

You know the criminals will have them if they want them. That is a given. There is no law in the world that will stop them from arming themselves. You point out the underground gun trade and the ease of which people can convert starter pistols. Even if you eliminated those two supply points, would you take away the ability of criminals to arm themselves? The simple and direct answer is … NO!

Guns are simple mechanical devices with a limited number of simple moving parts. In any modern industrialized society, the machines and the skilled labor needed to make them are readily available. Any competent machinist with a standard off the shelf mill can turn out about any style of weapon you can think of. Through out the world there is millions of people that have the necessary equipment right in their garage workshop. Look up the term “home gunsmith” or “hobby gunsmithing”. In the US they understood that it was pointless trying to ban people from doing it because it is so easy to do, so they made allowances for it in the law and what can happen to the home made weapons when the original owner/maker passes on.

In the UK there has been a few notable bust of back yard workshops turning starter pistols into working guns. Those were just small time criminals that openly sold to anyone that wanted them. Do you actually think that the police will find out where an actual big illegal gun workshop was Those workshops would be owned by the organized crime ring and their sole duty is to provide the guns the group wants.

The only reason why organized crime and despot governments buy arms from outside countries right now is it is moderately cheaper to buy them than make them themselves. But if you stopped international gun trade over night, they would just turn to local production to fill that void. They would hardly notice the difference.

Now that it is perfectly clear that the criminals will have any weapon they want. Are you ok with the idea of being disarmed? To rely on a group that may take half an hour or more to get there and clean up what is left of the crime scene?

The point of home gun ownership for self defense is to equalize a disparity of force. If you can’t disarm the criminal, then arm the victim. It is immoral to disarm someone in front of an armed and ruthless enemy.

It reminds me of an exchange between a news paper and amnesty international in regard to the genocide in Rwanda. The people getting killed were defenseless. The people that was killing them was being armed by the genocidal government. The news paper asks amnesty international why they don’t give the people getting killed weapons to fight back. The response from amnesty international just left my jaw hanging. It went along the line of….

“ It would not be a good idea to give the people weapons because it would introduce an amount of uncertainty into the situation.”

……………………. NO $HIT SHERLOCK!!! That is the whole damn point!!!!!! There is a certainty in the situation right now. The certainty that they will be slaughtered! We want uncertainty. We want the slaughter to be a little less certain, and the survival to be a little more likely!

The same reason why a home owner should have the right to own a weapon to defend themselves. When they are unarmed then it is a certainty that they will be at the mercy of the criminal. Considering that criminals are by definition “untrustworthy” Then the idea of putting yourself at the mercy of one is not an equitable situation.

The only reason why most criminals stick with knives right now is not the difficulty obtaining them. It is because there is no need to have one. Why worry about a gun when the home owner will just sit there and cower while you stab him to death. The British home owner has had the concept of defending himself and his home brainwashed out of him. When someone attacks him, the only thing he knows how to do is cower on the floor and beg for mercy.

Originally posted by doobydoll
Citizens owning guns means the police force have to be armed too, and I don't like the thought of that at all.

Look what happens in the USA, why only yesterday I read a thread on here about armed police in America raiding the wrong address and shooting some family's pet dog dead in front of a terrified child. Absolutely horrific.

But cops in the USA have to be armed because the citizens are armed, I would never go live there because it seems that everyone there has at least 1 gun each. Everyone risks being shot because of it. Life is difficult enough without worrying if I or my family might get shot to death by a neighbour, or even a cop. No thanks.

If I had a magic wand, I'd make every weapon of every description in the world disappear into thin air. I can dream

First, the courts have established that it is NOT the responsibility of the Police to Protect Citizens. It is their responsibility to investigate crimes after the fact. Second, if law abiding citizens were to give up firearms the criminal element would not (ergo no protection). Third, the intent of the Second Amendment goes beyond self defense to the security of the state. Fourth, if you magically wished away all "weapons" then people would use other objects as weapons (ie, golf clubs and baseball bats if not kitchen knives). Fifth, even if you eliminated all objects that could be used as weapons (see 4) then people could still use their bare hands (even without martial arts training). Dream on......

reply to post by doobydoll
Yes finally a person who see sense.A world wide ban, but then what would big companies like Colt do!!Go out of Business or make stun weapons!!! Hell im a genius...lol..End of the day certain elements of world population want pistols, carbines,rifles,high powered sniper rifles auto-semi auto weapons..(Just ask yourself a question would you like a relative hurt or killed by some"Maniac or so called Domestic Terrorist???????#food for thought ...

reply to post by Mr Tranny
Lets put it this way im relatively happy not having gun freaks in lil old UK,i will take my chances with my air weapon and a bat or a knife lol...

reply to post by Valhall


We have only 'specialist' armed response units for such things, all our regular everyday cops don't have guns.
Why do you think that is?

All your cops carry guns, all of them. That's because it's legal for the citizens to have them. Even if an old lady asked for help crossing the road, your cops turn up wearing a loaded gun. So who is he protecting himself from?

All your regular cops carry guns, even if he just directs traffic. Ours don't.

Folk in the UK don't have guns, so therefore our regular cops don't need them. If our gun laws were like those in the US, our cops will have to be armed too. US cops aren't carrying guns to protect from criminals like you seem to think it is, it's to 'protect' from you potentially dangerous armed citizens.

We dont need guns easily accessed in the UK.

It's safer to live in a country where guns are illegal.

reply to post by gavlar1974


This is such a troll.
I can't believe this passes as a thread on ATS. Where are the mods for this garbage?

Anyway to the OP goodluck protecting yourself from multiple, armed, burglars with your airgun.

reply to post by SGTSECRET

You can have a fully automatic if you go thru a thorough background check and are approved by the BATFE and pay a $200 transfer tax and keep the tax stamp with the weapon and do not take it across state lines or let another person use it. Legally owned fully automatic weapons (which are quite expensive for civilians to own vs for law enforcement agencies to purchase) are not being used in crimes. They are "registered" and only transferred to those pass the thorough process.

reply to post by gavlar1974

A "world wide" ban...except for governments. Who protected the Russian farmers (esp. Ukraine), Turkish Armenians, German Jews, Chinese anti-communists and Cambodian intellectuals when the citizens were disarmed and the government had a "monopoly of force" and decided to use it?

Note to the rest of the world....you can have an opinion all you want, but the US will never give up the guns. There is nothing and I mean nothing you do or say that will change this, so if you just want to talk about it knowing its the same as talking about how cool it would be if you found a magic lamp and genie to get 3 wishes well then go ahead.

The fact remains that 70% of crimes committed with guns are illegally obtained. And they pick places you cant carry guns, wonder why that is? Pull a stunt like this in a place like Texas at the mall and the story will read, guy shoots a few people and then was shot by a CHL citizen 60sec later before he was able to shoot the other 50 he was planning.

There are laws that keep fully auto, convicted fellons, etc from buying any kind of gun, yet they always get them. There are already plenty of laws on the books to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Sure anyone over 18 can get a long gun, but handguns, which are the primary used weapon of criminals since you can conceal them, are not easy to get, you must pass a FBI check and you are registered as having that said gun at that point.They pick this one or 2 examples lately of legally purchased guns and crimes and have all you libs and non americans falling all over yourselves shouting , see take the guns and it will all go away....There will always be crime and if you take away the ability for the populace to defend themselves it will get worse. You guys are totally controlled by your government, and from what I can tell dont mind because you have been conditioned this way. The US of coarse has to deal with its increasing gov control as well, but they will never be able to totally control us like you guys are as long as we have the second amendment. So stay in your country and be content that you dont have to worry about the big bad guns and let us take care of ourselves as usual.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrowThis site has its mix of trolls and bullies im not one of them!!!So you go ahead and carry on may be its right or may its so wrong!!!This site also has it good and understanding people which is why i will continue to post on here,y'all have a nice day now...

Originally posted by Wiz4769
Note to the rest of the world....you can have an opinion all you want, but the US will never give up the guns. There is nothing and I mean nothing you do or say that will change this, so if you just want to talk about it knowing its the same as talking about how cool it would be if you found a magic lamp and genie to get 3 wishes well then go ahead.

The fact remains that 70% of crimes committed with guns are illegally obtained. And they pick places you cant carry guns, wonder why that is? Pull a stunt like this in a place like Texas at the mall and the story will read, guy shoots a few people and then was shot by a CHL citizen 60sec later before he was able to shoot the other 50 he was planning.

There are laws that keep fully auto, convicted fellons, etc from buying any kind of gun, yet they always get them. There are already plenty of laws on the books to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Sure anyone over 18 can get a long gun, but handguns, which are the primary used weapon of criminals since you can conceal them, are not easy to get, you must pass a FBI check and you are registered as having that said gun at that point.They pick this one or 2 examples lately of legally purchased guns and crimes and have all you libs and non americans falling all over yourselves shouting , see take the guns and it will all go away....There will always be crime and if you take away the ability for the populace to defend themselves it will get worse. You guys are totally controlled by your government, and from what I can tell dont mind because you have been conditioned this way. The US of coarse has to deal with its increasing gov control as well, but they will never be able to totally control us like you guys are as long as we have the second amendment. So stay in your country and be content that you dont have to worry about the big bad guns and let us take care of ourselves as usual.

Take a look at this ...
gun facts
What do you say about that then?

reply to post by doobydoll

Switzerland has a very low gun homicide rate and yet every adult is a defacto member of the militia and has a military styled assault rifle in their home. I dont want to sound racist (merely a pragmatist who also supports equal rights) but what if we looked at the gun violence in the US by racial breakdown...would that shed any light?

Originally posted by doobydoll

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by doobydoll
Citizens owning guns means the police force have to be armed too, and I don't like the thought of that at all.

Look what happens in the USA, why only yesterday I read a thread on here about armed police in America raiding the wrong address and shooting some family's pet dog dead in front of a terrified child. Absolutely horrific.

But cops in the USA have to be armed because the citizens are armed, I would never go live there because it seems that everyone there has at least 1 gun each. Everyone risks being shot because of it. Life is difficult enough without worrying if I or my family might get shot to death by a neighbour, or even a cop. No thanks.

If I had a magic wand, I'd make every weapon of every description in the world disappear into thin air. I can dream

Incorrect. Cops have to be armed because the CRIMINALS have guns. We can't possibly be deluding ourselves into believing we can prevent CRIMINALS from having banned weapons are we? Even the OP admitted that in the UK guns are banned but they are boring them out to shoot live ammo. So...? The cops have guns to protect themselves from the CRIMINALS, not the legal, law-abiding armed citizen.

edit on 8-9-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

That's a load of rubbish.

Criminals in the US are all armed because it's too easy to for anyone to get a gun there, even legally. This is why ALL your crims are armed and dangerous. The police force have to be armed because most, if not all your citizens are armed.

This is not so in the UK.
Some of our crims are armed, and we have specialist armed response cop units to deal with gun criminals. Our citizens are not armed, and therefore our street cops don't need to carry guns either.

Even if ALL UK criminals have been or are armed today, our cops still don't have guns. What do you think to that then?

edit on 9-8-2012 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)

ok, i gotta ask ... since you claim "that's a load of rubbish" --> regarding officers are armed to meet/match/defeat the armed criminals.

then, you say

This is not so in the UK.
Some of our crims are armed, and we have specialist armed response cop units to deal with gun criminals

so, what is the "rubbish" part, exactly ??

is it rubbish that your specialists are equipped as ours or is it rubbish that you think it's different somehow ??

personally, i think your entire line of thinking is rubbish but imho, to each their own.

reply to post by doobydoll

really ??

It's safer to live in a country where guns are illegal.

show me any country that participates in a gun ban or extreme restrictions (like the UK) that has less violent crime in general (not just gun crime) than the Swiss, please ??

they have mandatory gun ownership and a whole lot less crime than the UK or any other country that has gun restrictions/bans in place.
www.swissinfo.ch...

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen

Originally posted by doobydoll
Citizens owning guns means the police force have to be armed too, and I don't like the thought of that at all.

Look what happens in the USA, why only yesterday I read a thread on here about armed police in America raiding the wrong address and shooting some family's pet dog dead in front of a terrified child. Absolutely horrific.

But cops in the USA have to be armed because the citizens are armed, I would never go live there because it seems that everyone there has at least 1 gun each. Everyone risks being shot because of it. Life is difficult enough without worrying if I or my family might get shot to death by a neighbour, or even a cop. No thanks.

If I had a magic wand, I'd make every weapon of every description in the world disappear into thin air. I can dream

First, the courts have established that it is NOT the responsibility of the Police to Protect Citizens. It is their responsibility to investigate crimes after the fact. Second, if law abiding citizens were to give up firearms the criminal element would not (ergo no protection). Third, the intent of the Second Amendment goes beyond self defense to the security of the state. Fourth, if you magically wished away all "weapons" then people would use other objects as weapons (ie, golf clubs and baseball bats if not kitchen knives). Fifth, even if you eliminated all objects that could be used as weapons (see 4) then people could still use their bare hands (even without martial arts training). Dream on......

I have a better chance of recovery from a few bruises than I would from a bullet through the heart.

UK gun laws make our country a safer place to live than the US.