Eyewitness: 4 Man Team Behind Sikh Temple Shooting

reply to post by Vitruvian

I think the most fascinating thing about this latest media circus is the quote from Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center which is being scrubbed from the internet. You can Google this exact phrase before it is gone.....


"Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) said they started tracking Page when he tried to purchase goods from the neo-Nazi group National Alliance"


Now the real question is how would Southern Poverty Law Center know about a purchase from the National Alliance neo-Nazi group. Does National Alliance feed information to Southern Poverty Law Center. Read about the SPLC to find out what they do.

And what does it mean when somebody ''tried to purchase goods''?

This smells.

Originally posted by XXX777
reply to post by Vitruvian

 

I think the most fascinating thing about this latest media circus is the quote from Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center which is being scrubbed from the internet. You can Google this exact phrase before it is gone.....


"Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) said they started tracking Page when he tried to purchase goods from the neo-Nazi group National Alliance"


Now the real question is how would Southern Poverty Law Center know about a purchase from the National Alliance neo-Nazi group. Does National Alliance feed information to Southern Poverty Law Center. Read about the SPLC to find out what they do.

And what does it mean when somebody ''tried to purchase goods''?

This smells.

Star for this~!

Excellent observation~! I wounder if they get their infro from the 'security' company Anon hacked awhile back ??

This is getting a hell of a lot of attention in the united states but not so much internationally. I must admit that I had to spend a good amount of time today getting caught up on all the news reports and discussion going on right now about this(thanks ATS for all the coverage on this). I watched it unfold on twitter but later I had to go back to read a bunch of news reports and read a lot of discussions on ATS to get caught up.

So...about there being more than one shooter. This man was a hardcore white pride kind of guy. Those types are usually very well connected to each other. Someone knew he was going to do this and most likely he had help. These types don`t take action alone. They are `scared` that the `white race` is going to be destroyed so they stick together like glue. I am sure he had a lot of help planning this and on the day it happened he most likely had some people looking out for him to make sure it went down. Now, did others actually get involved in the shooting? That is a good question. Groups like this don`t like to put anymore people at risk of being killed or caught by the police than they have to. They can never be too sure which one of them will turn state evidence if arrested by the police. I think the guy had support on the day of the shooting but it is unlikely that others actually had to balls to help him kill.

I mean, I lot of these `white pride` types are not as hardcore as they seem. At rallies and on net videos they all act like tough guys but the real situation is usually different. They are looking for acceptance in their chosen social group but most of them are not killers. I think this guy acted alone during the actual killings but I am sure he had some support the day of the killings.

All the `white pride` people out there are going to be laying real low for a while. They really have no choice but to try to be invisible as they can for at least the next few months. It will be hard for the police to track a lot of them down. Another problem is that DHS and the FBI have greatly reduced their man power and funding for keeping tabs on extreme `right-wing` hate groups. I know people don`t like it but `white pride` groups do fall under extreme `right-wing` groups. That means that there is not going to be a lot of background information for the police to work with. The police need to rouse all the known `white pride` hate groups in the local area and quickly. Try to talk to all of them in a very careful manner. Talk to the leaders first and then work there way down form there. The police are going to have to make it very clear to them that this is a mass case which has gone beyond protecting `white pride` hate group`s freedom of speech. Go as far as telling them that if they do not work with the police that it will be harder to `protect` their freedom of speech in the future.

I'm thinking about the Colorado connection.
Mass shooting in Aurora with legally purchased guns. (frieghten people at home, multiple incidents now)
Mass shooting in WI also with legally purchased guns in Co.(make other states think Co laws are too lax)

What IF they planned on first just pushing a gun ban in Colorado (sell it to the people as state by state basis, divide and conquer).
New capitol of the NWO has be rumored to be in Denver.
This would give the NWO a huge DMZ for operations and security.

COINTELPRO is in full force on this website, laughable indeed.

Originally posted by XXX777
reply to post by Vitruvian

 

I think the most fascinating thing about this latest media circus is the quote from Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center which is being scrubbed from the internet. You can Google this exact phrase before it is gone.....

"Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) said they started tracking Page when he tried to purchase goods from the neo-Nazi group National Alliance"

Now the real question is how would Southern Poverty Law Center know about a purchase from the National Alliance neo-Nazi group. Does National Alliance feed information to Southern Poverty Law Center. Read about the SPLC to find out what they do.

And what does it mean when somebody ''tried to purchase goods''?

This smells.

Good afternoon! I've lurked forever, and it's time to chime in. Yes, I signed up today. I hope what I have to say is of value to you.

In my misspent youth, I had affiliations with a white power group and I'd like to share some insights. The National Alliance sells books and CDs. The only way to really know if someone bought from National Vanguard Books (their book store) is for them to share the information. I bought books from National Vanguard Books back in the day, so I'm sure the SPLC has my name too.

In the 1990's, a great many of the neo nazi, white supremacist and separatist organizations (these are necessary distinctions) were infiltrated by informants for the FBI and ATF, in an apparent attempt to prevent acts of violence. The group I met were infiltrated. They also happened to be a propaganda cell and not into violence (thankfully). Some were ex-cons on parole and were still about trying to recruit people and "set up networks" (their words). I believe they were let out for the purpose of doing scout work to find would-be white power folks and controlling them. Some where ordinary folks that in fear or desperation fell into the wrong crowd. These folks kept detailed notes of every email printed out so they can blackmail you later.

I can't put my finger out it exactly, but I believe the neo-nazi and white supremacist movements are largely owned and controlled by federal agencies. This is how suspects are "on the radar" of agencies. They're useful idiots who can be pushed into committing crimes when needed. Or to almost commit crimes and get caught. I feel like I'm forgetting to mention something, but I can't remember what it is. Anyway, I hope this is at least useful information for your discussions.

reply to post by harryhaller


And to boot, six months ago I wasn't even Christian for 50 of my 59 years....................it's gotten so obvious it's not funny.

Thank you for the nice comment.

The book is really worth getting....................LA Marzulli and Russ Dizdar both have their own websites.

Google them to find. Russ's is shatter the darkness dot net and he gets into mind control and sleeping cells now being activated thus the craziness increasing.

They both say it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Choose sides and suit up...............show time.

These mass shootings have sure become more prevalent and common in these recent weeks, with all the gun regulation debates, and UN gun ban regulations looming...

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

reply to post by freedomwv


I guess we have to remember those words of Breviek when he said There are many more ready to go

Originally posted by muse7
Guess you can't be a terrorist if you're white huh?

Is the label terrorist only reserved for brown people with AK-47s?

These were terrorists, these terrorists attacked innocent women and children just like the 9/11 terrorists killed thousands of innocent people.

You're already blaming the "left" and "liberals" when the ones that are politicizing this horrible tragedy are the people that have the 2nd amendment tattoo'd on their ass

pretty sure this has largely been classed as a "Terrorist" act, like McVeigh (though a recent shooter with clear Islamic overtones was not referred to as such)

Leave your received wisdom somewhere else yeah

regardless of whether there is some conspiratorial angle to this, unfortunately, as countries in the west become more fragmented in terms of race and culture, more such shootings will occur- that is not me supporting such actions, I oppose violence against my fellow man, I am just (sadly) aware enough to realise that history shows us a move towards a majority of minorities inevitably results in violence and conflict

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Makes you wonder! hmmm? Good memory

I hope there not going to try to use Colorado as a divide and conquer state. I know alot you out there believe that
Colorado is all liberal state now, but it still has alot of gun lovers armed to the teeth here that are fully aware of what's to come.
It's the Californians that are bringing this liberal bs here. If only Holmes would have stayed in Cali.

Originally posted by texasgirl

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by deadeyedick

 

The physical evidence. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate. For example a 1991 study found that in 45% of cases where an innocent person is found guilty it is due to faulty eyewitness testimony. There are other studies that place this number over 50% in the US.

Another example comes from the FBI. During training on of tasks potential agents witness a "crime." After they are asked to state what they saw. I can't remember the exact numbers but most fail this task. Most of these individuals have been trained to observe and even they have trouble accurately remembering what they saw. Do you really think an untrained observer is going to have a better memory of what occurred, especially when they're fearing for their life?

But then again there were 101 witnesses who claimed there were more than 2 shooters at the Columbine massacre, each one with a story that eerily matched the other witness stories.

I guess we have to wait and see how many witnesses come out and say there was more than one shooter

So basically 101 witnesses were wrong, yes? I mean there's video footage of just the two jerk offs (Harris and Kleybold) shooting up the place, and after a huge investigation I'm pretty sure every agrees that Columbine was done by just those 2 kids.

It's no mistake how these 101 people's stories seem to match, that's how bad eyewitness testimony works. One person can sway an entire group with false information. There are many studies on this.

My feeling is 4 shooters would have killed alot more people than 6. Remember the 7th victim was the supposedly the shooter. As far as going for specific "targets", this was not an assasination, and if it was an assasination made to look like a random shooting wouldn't killing a bunch of "average" people along with the high priority targets make alot more sense? (When I say average I mean no disrespect to the dead or thier families, but people are saying the 6 killed we somehow more "important" than everyday /average people)

This one witness (or two) who are saying they saw a four man team of white guys dressed in black, imo is most likely saw a four man police tactical group take down the shooter. Pronbaly a late comer to the scene who only saw the end of the event from a block away.

Sure it could be a huge cover-up. Anything is possible.

But in all the video I've watched (and I've watched alot) about studies on eye-witness testimony it's terrible, terrible, andeven more terrible. Even when giving details about a simple theft in broad daylight, let alone a shooting in a dimly lit church, or dark movie cinema. I have to lean toward this being just one or two people being poor witnesses to a traumatic event instead of a huge government psy-op only to kill 6 or 7 people.

Again though anything is possible, I wouldn't be on this site if I didn't believe that. I'm just thinking of the most reasonable explanation , imo.

If there was a hostage situation, where is the news coverage, even the msm is usually all over those situations like a cheap suit.

and as far as the 4 man " White Pride" team of one shooter, and 2 lookout's and driver..., that's not what the witness said. He said all 4 came in together in dressed exactly alike shooting people. Sounds more like he saw a Police team clearing the scene, and in his panicked state figured those "guys with guns" must be the "gunmen".

Will have to wait for more information to come out. But I don't have high hopes of that, especially after the Aurora incident. Enforcement agencies are really playing these cases strangely close to the vest. So yes this is definitely worth looking into, I'm not saying it doesn't deserve firther discussion and investigation. Quite the contrary. Keep questioning the Official Stories but one or two eyewitnesses with stories that don't match up to the large perentage of others, just doesn't make it for me at this point.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Vitruvian

 

So it couldn't possibly have been a bunch of yahoos who can't tell the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim?

It is possible one dim-witted yahoo could be that stupid...? maybe... but four? I doubt it.
But then, what "white-supremist" doesn't know the difference between a Sikh and Muslim?
No, I'm not buying this for a second. There was an agenda here... reminds of the Fort Hood
shooting...

reply to post by miniatus

I reject that argument.. I've been around on ATS especially long enough to know that what might be "obvious" to one person doesn't make it in any way true.. so evidence I think is always the best course.. People get so convinced about a topic that it's absolutely true in their mind.. when it may not be true in the world of facts... evidence is never an obstacle of truth, it's something used to arrive at truth.

And I strongly disagree in a world where CGI can produce evidence of anything. But what I was getting at is that the lack of evidence can most definitely, without argument, be an obstacle for truth.

youtu.be...

dont know if this has been shared or not. but its got a few local news clips in it. it still leaves alot of questions.

Since this guy had "white-supremicist" bands, he probably carried some power in the genre. I mean, in a genre that only has a few thousand followers, I imagine that he may have carried some weight.

Page played bass in a number of white-power bands — Youngland, Celtic Warrior, Radikahl, Max Resist, Intimidation One, Aggressive Force, Blue Eyed Devils, and more recently, Definite Hate — before starting his own, End Apathy, in 2005.

Link

Another thing to note is, if there really was more than one guy in this massacre, it means that it wasn't a white supremacist who was confused and thought that the Sikhs were actually Muslims. It's highly unlikely that more than one white supremacist got confused. What do white supremacists have against Sikhs?

Oops, didn't realize that this had already been said in one way or another.

I think it was a black op to take out those priests.

That's why I don't think there was a higher body count.

Otherwise not a bit more of what I saw and heard make sense.
When I heard the live broadcast, which I started listening very early in the incident, minutes after it was reported, before ambulances or the bureau got there...

Now if it were one shooter they were not acting like it. All those pictures - this is AFTER - all these picture sof drawn guns looking in dumpsters, making people stay inside during the investigation, calling in a hostage negotiator AFTER the 'lone gunman' was dead?

"The best information is that it was one shooter"

(What makes it best. information, why not, the most accurate?)

The single most influential witness report I have heard - on what I think - is the one where they talked about how he made the priests lay down and then shot them.

I realize I am using the word priest rather loosely, but basically, those that conduct the services on a professional basis.

----------------------
When i was younger, I was into the punk scene. The skinhead scene ran along right beside it, same venues. I knew a few of these bands and these guys were no more militant racists than my big toe is. They had these names but they weren't like ....a militia or into guns. Some of them had names that were more to SHOCK than to do anything else. IE moonstomp, gestapo

Those dudes were more likely to sit around feeding their little dogs hotdogs than to go out and shoot someone. It would LOOK very alarming, but believe me, it wasn't. None of them believed the crap they sang about - except they were not real happy with society telling them how to look and dress.

I'm not saying SOME band might not really be more than a stupid band of guys that sing crap so they can play dress up and get laid, but I lived in the middle of inner city punk for a few years and never saw it.

reply to post by hadriana


If this is the case, do we have any information on those who were killed? Possibly any high-profile cases? For instance, in the Aurora, AR shootings, there were some Air Force enlistees who had access to interesting information regarding space and space technology.

Anything similar to that here?