Lucifer and the Masonic Lie of Theosophy

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I do agree with alot of your theological views on things i for one am a believer in Jesus Christ however i take a different view on the Bible then a typical Christian, first off what i mean by this is i feel the old testament is flawed by the prophets in certin instances when not factoring in Jesus words from the new testament first.

What i mean by that is i feel that when one reads the Bible the first chapter they should read is about Jesus and his teachings then take that knowledge that Jesus taught us about God then apply it to the old testament, for i feel it wasn't until Jesus teachings that the true nature and and intent of God is explained, i'll give you a example when Moses recieves the ten commandments one of those commandments was "Thou shalt not kill" and as soon as he came back with the commandments to the people he killed those who where worshiping the golden calf clearly breaking one of God's commandments meaning that even tho he did recieve the commendments from God he him self did not understand them and his teachings were flawed like most of the prophets pre-Jesus, in fact Jesus taught that people who had different faiths and even the non believers could be saved something clearly Moses did not understand.

Also i don't subsribe to the concept of duality i think such a concept is flawed and nonsense you don't need bad to have good in fact you should always be striving for good and the final resting place which is Heaven is nothing but good, so when one tries to teach balance with bad having to be a part it's B.S.

reply to post by King Seesar


But good is also the absence of bad - without one, we could not define the other. Other than that, that's a good point - balance would indicate striving for equal parts good and bad, which makes no sense.

reply to post by darkbake


True but why should we need to define anything if good just was then we would have reached harmony and not knowing bad would be a good thing, but i understand your point.


Plus the concept of duality means good and bad essentially existing on the same plane which is impossible because they would destroy each other and chaos would always be the result.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Theurgy is the answer. The ritual of Masons is that they can rise, by their own work and merits, to the status of god.

Again, where specifically in the ritual does this take place? Where is the mention of your pal Lucifer that I do not believe in?

I am trying to show yo that the rituals and oaths you take are ritual magic.

That is so considerate of you, I really enjoy when you prosthelytize and blather on about Jesus and how mean old Satan (who I do not believe in unlike you) is getting me to think I am God by doing 'ritual magic'. Maybe if you keep this up for a few more centuries I may convert to the cult of Seventh Day Adventism and start believing in the Devil like you do.

Originally posted by EnigmaticDill
I can see that you haven't taken much thought into the reason why you will never hear a Mason say your going to hell, because most do not believe in it because they do not believe in Biblical principles.

Hell is a Christian concept and the Old Testament does not mention going to Hell or the Devil. Shows how much you understand your own book.

Originally posted by darkbake
Lucifer and God exist and represent nearly opposite philosophies.

I disagree. Lucifer was a Miltonian mistranslation and is a being that Chrisitians use to frighten each other into belief, 'Follow Jesus or you will go to Hell and the Devil will get you.'

Originally posted by EnigmaticDill
Then that means you do not follow the Bible. What exactly do you follow, secular humanism, you can slap a label on anything.

Your either in it 100 percent or your not, you dont pick and choose what suits your needs, its just like everything else in their "beliefs" ideals, whatever you want to call it.

Do you follow the Bible 100%, EnigmaticDill?

You don't wear clothing of mixed fibers?

You throw stones at adulterers?

You don't cut your facial hair?

The only evil in the world is ignorance and those who strike fear into those to live in ignorance. Satan is the bringer of light and knowledge. The bible is a subliminal tool to remove true knowledge from the public, the truth is that we are our own gods and we manipulate our reality. Most people are too low on bioelectricity/chi are usually sick are prone to misfortune. Chi is the light the fills the aura, the more chi the stronger the aura. The bible gets people to willingly giving there power to the damned jahova or fictitious god, leaving the xians/masons/illuminati to do whatever they please with the power. Xians are those who took the original true spiritual religions and corrupted the minds of MILLIONS for at least 2000 years. The sooner people realize that we have the power to change everything, the entire existence of this planet will be for the better and Satan gives us that knowledge. Hail Satan.

Originally posted by nexile666
The only evil in the world is ignorance and those who strike fear into those to live in ignorance. Satan is the bringer of light and knowledge. The bible is a subliminal tool to remove true knowledge from the public, the truth is that we are our own gods and we manipulate our reality. Most people are too low on bioelectricity/chi are usually sick are prone to misfortune. Chi is the light the fills the aura, the more chi the stronger the aura. The bible gets people to willingly giving there power to the damned jahova or fictitious god, leaving the xians/masons/illuminati to do whatever they please with the power. Xians are those who took the original true spiritual religions and corrupted the minds of MILLIONS for at least 2000 years. The sooner people realize that we have the power to change everything, the entire existence of this planet will be for the better and Satan gives us that knowledge. Hail Satan.

edit on 5-8-2012 by nexile666 because: spellling mistake

Lucifer is the bringer of light.

Thus the name.

Lucifer, aka light bearer, is the anthropomorphism of the planet Venus, which is known as the morning star.
And ironically for you Christians, you might want to go read your book where your Jesus fellow calls himself the bright morning star.

Satan translates into Hebrew as "the oppressor", I think.

The character of Satan made his first biblical appearance in the book of Job.

Satan and Lucifer are two different characters in literature, but thanks to Milton, as was noted by augustusmasonicus, most Christians now perceive Satan as the fallen form of Lucifer.

But besides all that Nexile666... Your post doesn't make any sense, at least to me.

The only thing that we have the power to change is ourselves. .
Now, if one wanted to argue that everything is actually within each of us, then I can see grounds for this argument.

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Truth is personal business, we all (living creatures) perceive differently (one size does not fit all) for infinitely many reasons (genetic make, outer circumstances, location etc.) and God is just as personal business.
I prefer to see life and death as a cyclic merging of water drops with the ocean, it does not matter what you and me think as the truth, or which religion we choose to relieve the so human fear of deaths' eternity (the only reason, combined with human striving to explain what could not be gasped with reason, any religion ever invented by mankind could thrive).
Light is personal business (We all humans perceive colours differently, The beauty is in the eye of the observer, When the sun sets, small people throw long shadows)
Hence I try to do my best and behave loving and ethically throughout this life, towards all other forms of life I encounter on my constant learning path. Everything else is going to be a surprise.
For me there is no literal Hell or Lucifer as in Satan or a Jesus Saviour I can project my fears on. Evil is done by men not Lucifer.
A very catholic friend of mine asked me once what I was thinking with regards to the literal existence of Lucifer, my answer was that if he ever existed his reason for being evil was the lack of love and compassion he has been shown by his parents (creators).

That's an outstanding answer, especially the part about Lucifer. If we only knew the back story, we would have a chance to understand the front story. I agree with you actually. My reasoning for this is John 2.

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

An important thing to spot in this is that God does not need our testimony. He already knows us. This is why embracing faith in God is important. He is the one that works out our faith. As with any Father, our trust of our parents is their work, not ours.

However, do we also have a job in this? Yes. We must show deference.

reply to post by SubAce


I agree with you, but there is a timing in this for ALL of us. The quickening is something that cannot happen until an appointed time. Read Esdra II online. Esdra suffered from the fear that so few would be saved, not knowing about the long-suffering nature of God with man. You are totally correct, but let me simply add two points from my perspective.

1) Read my article on Water Baptism and John the Baptist. You can find it in the link in my signature.

2) Hebrews 9:23-28

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Here in this world, we are the image of ourselves. This implies that the image we see is not us, but a rendering of us in word. Genesis 1:27 states this and the verses above states this. In v. 28, we see that we are all waiting for salvation to arrive. We won't get there until a few things happen. First, Acts 24 states that Paul believed that BOTH the wicked and righteous would be raised on the last day to life. When is this last day? Well, it's one generation after Israel becomes a nation and the captivity in Babylon was ended. 1948 is the starting of the final generation, or the last tick of the precession of Earth's pole. 26000 years divided by 360 gives you a generation of the pole (72.222 years). Enoch said that the watchers were judged at 70 generations past the time they receive the judgment. 70*72.222 is 5055. Add this to when Enoch delivered the message (950).

Barnabas Said

Epistle of Barnabas 15:4

Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end."

How can we then see when the timeline of God brings the Holy Spirit and Salvation?

-Adam to Abraham 2000 Years of Age 1 (FATHER)
-Abraham to Jesus 2000 Years of Age 2 (SON)
-Jesus to Today 2000 Years of Age 3 (HOLY SPIRIT)
-Day of Rest (Day of the Lord) 1000 years (SALVATION)

We cannot kid ourselves into saying that we can testify of our own salvation until we are presented it by God.

John 2 says this:

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.[d] 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

Until you hear, "Well done," you are still working toward the goal. The Holy Spirit will come during the allotted time of peace when Christ reigns on Earth and the enemies are the footstool. When does this happen?

Revelation 1:7

“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

Elijah is pictured in 1 Kings 17 as controlling water and bringing the widow woman's son up to heaven and down to earth in a living manner. We then follow this to the first century when John the Baptist is baptizing. This is symbolism for how Elijah prepares the way.

For the generation who pierced Christ to be here today, they must be born again. This is the Acts 24 reference of Paul saying that the resurrection would include EVERYONE!

All 7 billion souls, the fullness of the gentiles coming in, are here now. All eyes will see and all knees bow, even those who pierced Christ. What will they see?

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

We are waiting for the baptism of spirit so we can find salvation. We will live in the last 1000 years and see multiple generations of grandchildren. As in the days of Noah.

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I do agree with alot of your theological views on things i for one am a believer in Jesus Christ however i take a different view on the Bible then a typical Christian, first off what i mean by this is i feel the old testament is flawed by the prophets in certin instances when not factoring in Jesus words from the new testament first.

What i mean by that is i feel that when one reads the Bible the first chapter they should read is about Jesus and his teachings then take that knowledge that Jesus taught us about God then apply it to the old testament, for i feel it wasn't until Jesus teachings that the true nature and and intent of God is explained, i'll give you a example when Moses recieves the ten commandments one of those commandments was "Thou shalt not kill" and as soon as he came back with the commandments to the people he killed those who where worshiping the golden calf clearly breaking one of God's commandments meaning that even tho he did recieve the commendments from God he him self did not understand them and his teachings were flawed like most of the prophets pre-Jesus, in fact Jesus taught that people who had different faiths and even the non believers could be saved something clearly Moses did not understand.

Also i don't subsribe to the concept of duality i think such a concept is flawed and nonsense you don't need bad to have good in fact you should always be striving for good and the final resting place which is Heaven is nothing but good, so when one tries to teach balance with bad having to be a part it's B.S.

edit on 5-8-2012 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

I get what you are saying. You don't need evil to have good, but you do need evil to appreciate good. I always return to James 1:19-27, but Confucius said it much more clearly.

"I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

Ask yourself a question and you might see it the way I see it. Was it necessary for God's Son to leave home and learn on his own? Jesus was called the last Adam. What might this imply about the first Adam, the Father of mankind? Further, fit this into the what Jesus said of all men: "You must be born again." I see Jesus by this light. We are he and he is us. In the end, we were all God in an image of himself, creating new souls to have fellowship with. What is a family if it is not the Father and Mother creating something new to love?

I assume he is Love and love keeps no record of wrongs, just as 1 Corinthians 13 states. How then can we know that some will fall out of this love? God demands that we follow his only law--love others as yourself. If you don't love your true self (The Spirit that allowed you life), then you cannot be one with God. It's a condition. Love requires that we are love. The experience to get there is the journey to see the difference between error and truth.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Again, where specifically in the ritual does this take place? Where is the mention of your pal Lucifer that I do not believe in?

Are you sure you want me to say what you already know? No Mason can tell the initiate what the big secret is. They are required to find it themselves. The book "Morals and Dogma" does a dandy job of outlining the progression. The ritual is accompanied by the literature. It's also accompanied by the conversations. It's a process of hinting.

If you are lower than 32, you cannot rise above apart from figuring it out yourself.

reply to post by EnochWasRight
In my opinion this thread belongs in the religion thread not secret societies. Your argument is basically that your religion is opposed to Freemasonry, Theurgy, or whatever. It informs us more about your religious beliefs than it does Freemasonry or secret societies. You are entitled to your beliefs but here you seem to be proselytizing. I am not interested in threads like this because to participate I would have to attack your Faith and I prefer to live and let live.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I do agree with alot of your theological views on things i for one am a believer in Jesus Christ however i take a different view on the Bible then a typical Christian, first off what i mean by this is i feel the old testament is flawed by the prophets in certin instances when not factoring in Jesus words from the new testament first.

What i mean by that is i feel that when one reads the Bible the first chapter they should read is about Jesus and his teachings then take that knowledge that Jesus taught us about God then apply it to the old testament, for i feel it wasn't until Jesus teachings that the true nature and and intent of God is explained, i'll give you a example when Moses recieves the ten commandments one of those commandments was "Thou shalt not kill" and as soon as he came back with the commandments to the people he killed those who where worshiping the golden calf clearly breaking one of God's commandments meaning that even tho he did recieve the commendments from God he him self did not understand them and his teachings were flawed like most of the prophets pre-Jesus, in fact Jesus taught that people who had different faiths and even the non believers could be saved something clearly Moses did not understand.

Also i don't subsribe to the concept of duality i think such a concept is flawed and nonsense you don't need bad to have good in fact you should always be striving for good and the final resting place which is Heaven is nothing but good, so when one tries to teach balance with bad having to be a part it's B.S.

edit on 5-8-2012 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

I get what you are saying. You don't need evil to have good, but you do need evil to appreciate good. I always return to James 1:19-27, but Confucius said it much more clearly.

"I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

edit on 5-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

I also understand your point but if all was good then a state of harmony would be and i would rather have that state of constent harmony then the appreciation of good.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

In my opinion this thread belongs in the religion thread not secret societies. Your argument is basically that your religion is opposed to Freemasonry, Theurgy, or whatever. It informs us more about your religious beliefs than it does Freemasonry or secret societies. You are entitled to your beliefs but here you seem to be proselytizing. I am not interested in threads like this because to participate I would have to attack your Faith and I prefer to live and let live.

The main book of Theosophy and ALL secret societies is the Bible. It's their fundamental source. The Masons have it on their Altar. No temple is complete without it. No thread about secret societies can be complete apart form using the source to reference the activity.

This would be different if I gave you a scriptural enema with no comments of my own. The fact is, most of what is here are my own words and not scripture. I reference the scriptures to add the proper reflecting point to the conversation that is from their own main document.

Originally posted by King Seesar

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I do agree with alot of your theological views on things i for one am a believer in Jesus Christ however i take a different view on the Bible then a typical Christian, first off what i mean by this is i feel the old testament is flawed by the prophets in certin instances when not factoring in Jesus words from the new testament first.

What i mean by that is i feel that when one reads the Bible the first chapter they should read is about Jesus and his teachings then take that knowledge that Jesus taught us about God then apply it to the old testament, for i feel it wasn't until Jesus teachings that the true nature and and intent of God is explained, i'll give you a example when Moses recieves the ten commandments one of those commandments was "Thou shalt not kill" and as soon as he came back with the commandments to the people he killed those who where worshiping the golden calf clearly breaking one of God's commandments meaning that even tho he did recieve the commendments from God he him self did not understand them and his teachings were flawed like most of the prophets pre-Jesus, in fact Jesus taught that people who had different faiths and even the non believers could be saved something clearly Moses did not understand.

Also i don't subsribe to the concept of duality i think such a concept is flawed and nonsense you don't need bad to have good in fact you should always be striving for good and the final resting place which is Heaven is nothing but good, so when one tries to teach balance with bad having to be a part it's B.S.

edit on 5-8-2012 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

I get what you are saying. You don't need evil to have good, but you do need evil to appreciate good. I always return to James 1:19-27, but Confucius said it much more clearly.

"I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

edit on 5-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

I also understand your point but if all was good then a state of harmony would be and i would rather have that state of constent harmony then the appreciation of good.

When the Bible speaks of Faith, Hope and Love, the Hope is just what you desire.

reply to post by EnochWasRight
The Volume of Sacred Law is open upon the Altar of a Freemasonic Lodge while at Work, but the VSL may be the Holy Bible, Torah, Qur'an, Rig Veda or whatever the predominant Faith of the land is. The candidate should make their promises on the Book the believe is the Revealed Will of God. I would be comfortable sitting in a Lodge where the Square & Compassess are placed on any of these open Books.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The Volume of Sacred Law is open upon the Altar of a Freemasonic Lodge while at Work, but the VSL may be the Holy Bible, Torah, Qur'an, Rig Veda or whatever the predominant Faith of the land is. The candidate should make their promises on the Book the believe is the Revealed Will of God. I would be comfortable sitting in a Lodge where the Square & Compassess are placed on any of these open Books.

The square and compass are axioms of reflected law by symbol. The law is God's word. Rightly dividing truth requires the word of God.

Read This Thread.. There is humor in it that is worth the time.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


What does that thread in particular have to do with this subject? I see nothing in common. Defending the right of gay men to join the Order and a theosophical discussion about religion has nothing to do with one another, unless, fundamentalism was brought into the conversation. I would think a Christian like yourself would strive to stay away from assuming to know how God feels about sexual orientations.... But you consistently prove be wrong, though, don't you.

Spit it out, you fool.

What's your issue with Freemasonry?