Lucifer and the Masonic Lie of Theosophy

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Well, not that you will listen to me as your mind is already made up and your Bible blinders are firmly in tact, but Masonry is made up of regular men. Men like you meet every day. There is a chance that some of the men your dad met, he didn't like. For him to only be involved for one year, it doesn't sound like he gave it much of a chance. In that year, you have to do a lot of study and almost all of it is away from the lodge. So if you are a fast burner, you can be a master mason in 6 months, and then possibly, if you are really into it, you may go to 6 meetings. More if there are degrees. But what my point is, is that there is no way your dad experienced anything vastly different than most people do. And most people have never heard of Satan or Lucifer being mentioned in any masonic ritual.

So you are wrong. Either lying intentionally, or just out of ignorance. I am sorry your dad is not around to tell his side of things.

Hate out of ignorance is just stupid.

He was told by the Masons to have a parade on Sunday. He took a vote with the class and they voted it down. When he informed the Masons, he was promptly on his way to the next school. This is the way private associations work. The good old boys are Masons in most cases.

I have nothing against Masons. I have a huge problem with the Mystery School Religion and its system of taking what is not earned.

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Great observation, but this only confirms my main thesis. It's not about what we can do, but what has been done for us. Deference is needed from us to God, not the other way around.

The one thing that never ceases to amaze me about some Christians is the fact that so many truly revel in their own ignorance. Some wear it as a badge of pride and actually use their own ignorance to speak to others in an insulting and degrading manner.

This greatly boggles the mind.

I do not say this about all Christians however.
I have met many fine Christian men who treated me with respect.
Of course, I didn't know that these men were faithful to this religion initially.
I did eventually learned this in passing from a 3rd party, because, unlike those who seek to convert others through prideful ignorance, these men only sought to engage and embrace another's humanity.

Which one are you Enoch?

The one that points out that fact to you in the quote I provided. It's not about what we do, but what has been done for us. Giving is the point.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Deference is needed from us to God, not the other way around.

Uh huh.......and what unique aspect of Masons and Freemasonry have made you believe that the aforementioned believe the latter rather than the former? What part of 'Masonry is an adjunct to your faith' don't you get?

Fitz

In the Garden of Eden, the choice was to allow God to give to us or us to take from God. Follow them by their actions and the pursuit is the same. They are after the fruit of knowledge instead of the one giving it to them.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


I have nothing against Masons. I have a huge problem with the Mystery School Religion and its system of taking what is not earned.

edit on 6-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Yet you continuously lie and claim Lucifer has something to do with masonry. Is it just ignorance, or perhaps something more...............

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


I have nothing against Masons. I have a huge problem with the Mystery School Religion and its system of taking what is not earned.

edit on 6-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Yet you continuously lie and claim Lucifer has something to do with masonry. Is it just ignorance, or perhaps something more...............

Did you read all three threads? The Twins idea is a Masonic conceptualization of good and evil. In the Bible, this idea is also presented as a dichotomy between those who choose to walk with God and those who choose to walk their own path. Jacob and Esau are examples of this.

Lucifer brings light. It's a title. Jesus is said to be the bright and morning star in several NT verses. We also know that there is a twin to this concept that seeks to destroy God's people by appearing as an angel of light. The entire Bible narrative then outlines the diverging paths of these two twins. One is the true image and the other is the one that copies. We see the same mirroring effect between both Christianity and The Mystery Religion.

Your assertion lacks merit based on false premise, the very premise the Masons hang their hats on. Please don't accuse me of lying. I have presented your own story to you with both sides of the reflection in view.

Everything is a story....a Story we write as we speak, as we listen, and hear it unto ourselves,....

There is no character , no protagonist, but ourselves....think Of it as a dream.....a Dream that defines the reality we make....the Reality we ARE.

There is a fork in the road.....one Way leads you to the loop of the beginning, the other is a loop of dead ending.....that Takes you far away....the Bell that will not ring. The vibration of life silenced.

Everything is us trying to have the dream reflect the fear of what we do not understand....what We do not want the dream to become...or Our will to make it what we KNOW it is.

To have the power to change the reality we see, or to be at the mercy of the reality we see, making the dream our reality.....

Choose wisely....the Fear of many characters, may divide the mind into an infinite division of oblivion...or The love of one being the force of re-unification making the many not AS the one, but THE ONE.....fearless

One mind in love, or one mind divided into many fears....oblivion Or creation.....

We decide. It is our dream.....do not Let the many faces of you take your gaze far away form the eyes that see them....

The eye that sees.....

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Deference is needed from us to God, not the other way around.

Uh huh.......and what unique aspect of Masons and Freemasonry have made you believe that the aforementioned believe the latter rather than the former? What part of 'Masonry is an adjunct to your faith' don't you get?

Fitz

In the Garden of Eden, the choice was to allow God to give to us or us to take from God. Follow them by their actions and the pursuit is the same. They are after the fruit of knowledge instead of the one giving it to them.

Do tell. Really: do tell (with citations). And while you're at it, how about answering the second question as well? I'll even repost it for you

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
What part of 'Masonry is an adjunct to your faith' don't you get?

HTH
Fitz

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


I have nothing against Masons. I have a huge problem with the Mystery School Religion and its system of taking what is not earned.

edit on 6-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Yet you continuously lie and claim Lucifer has something to do with masonry. Is it just ignorance, or perhaps something more...............

I am moved to other thoughts on this. The problem with any theology (This is what a system of belief is) is simple: We take God and place him in a box. We might call it Baptist or we might call it Freemason. No matter what we name our box, God is always there trying to take us out of ours. If you have not learned anything from my reflection of truth, know that I am trying to remove myself from the box. You won't hear me relating any theology in a box unless I am willing to drop that theology to find a higher truth. I have been accused of witnessing on ATS many times, but this is not my primary goal. God already knows us all. My witness here is a reflection that I am hoping returns to me with more preservative. This is impossible when a forum is not a place to share and grow from our own little cubicles.

I have been forced to let down my own pride so that the theology I thought I held can be see by God's light instead of my own. The only thing I can do here is to welcome you to the same process. The only way for this to happen is for the Masons here to let down their "STAND FAST GENTLEMAN" attitude and allow God to take us all out of our boxes.

It is evident to anyone reading these threads that I have uncovered a great deal of truth behind the symbolism. Much of this may very well be new territory to add to our maps of the world. We may never know if the Masons continue to hide under their bushel with a lamp that is quickly going out.

Truth should be the only light we seek. Lest you forget, your calling is the "Excelsior” cry of the ever-upward work to lead the world toward truth. Share that truth or join me in expanding it.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


I have nothing against Masons. I have a huge problem with the Mystery School Religion and its system of taking what is not earned.

edit on 6-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Yet you continuously lie and claim Lucifer has something to do with masonry. Is it just ignorance, or perhaps something more...............

Did you read all three threads? The Twins idea is a Masonic conceptualization of good and evil. [snip]

Why does it fall to everyone else to sift through multiple multi-page threads? Please be so kind as to enlighten all and sundry just where Lucifer is referred to in Masonic ritual.

Either cite or withdraw; anything else will betray the mark of the troll

Fitz

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I agree with your thesis in terms of putting God and often times ourselfs in a box basically trapping ones self in that box, i'v made this statement before but i feel out of these four symbols a square (box) triangle circle and X only one dose not trap you inside it's self and that is the X, as a mater of fact if you were dropped dead smack in the middle of the four symbols only the X offers a way out, as a mater of fact it offers four ways (paths) out.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The problem is you seem to think that without your help, the masons have no faith, or at least the wrong faith. YOU DON"T KNOW. Any one of the masons here might be more learned than even you on the subject of theology. But you pompussly assume to have the upper hand out of an incredible EGO.

You continuously misunderstand that Freemasonry is not a religion, it's a tool to help understand religion and the Bible. It's a way of living and the lessons come straight out of the Bible.

If there is any truth to what you claim, then you will spend less time preaching to the masons about something you know little of and more time trying to understand what masonry really is.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


I have nothing against Masons. I have a huge problem with the Mystery School Religion and its system of taking what is not earned.

edit on 6-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Yet you continuously lie and claim Lucifer has something to do with masonry. Is it just ignorance, or perhaps something more...............

Did you read all three threads? The Twins idea is a Masonic conceptualization of good and evil. [snip]

Why does it fall to everyone else to sift through multiple multi-page threads? Please be so kind as to enlighten all and sundry just where Lucifer is referred to in Masonic ritual.

Either cite or withdraw; anything else will betray the mark of the troll

Fitz

Of course I can't. It's only written in the Bible, the main book of secrets for the Mason. For the Masons themselves, this is the unwritten mouth to ear knowledge. The Hebrews had such a word called the unwritten Torah. The Masons entire study is based on the Mystery that was held from the beginning. It's the entire goal of the Masons from the beginning to find this unwritten knowledge. This is why Kabbalah and the Tree of Life is the central study, along with Hermetic Philosophy. Hermes is Enoch and the thread comes right back to the Bible. The post-flood Egyptians didn't have a clue as to what they possessed. Moses did, but only after God revealed it to him.

I don't suspect that the average Mason knows this in its entirety unless they have studied it from all sides. I have done this and am continuing to do so. You can deny it, but anyone can then search Freemason websites and podcasts to see the truth.

So the question is, where in the ritual is Lucifer mentioned? Nowhere. It's the implication that is implied. Where? In the literature. The Ritual formats the mind for reception.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I agree with your thesis in terms of putting God and often times ourselfs in a box basically trapping ones self in that box, i'v made this statement before but i feel out of these four symbols a square (box) triangle circle and X only one dose not trap you inside it's self and that is the X, as a mater of fact if you were dropped dead smack in the middle of the four symbols only the X offers a way out, as a mater of fact it offers four ways (paths) out.

For those who may not know, the X in question is the X Chromosome and the double helix of DNA. The Tree of Life is represented in Masonry by the two pillars of Boaz and Jachin. And here, we are right back to Chapter 3 of Genesis. If only you can master the tree of knowledge, you can get at the tree of life. The gate you are jumping over makes you a thief. This is what Christ said in John 10.

10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Giving is the point.

Giving someone a guilt trip is the point?

Giving someone a bad first, second, and third impression is the point?

Giving someone a reason to discount Christians and think them foolish is the point?

What is it exactly that you think that you are giving Enoch?

The only thing that I honestly see you giving is a LACK of quality answers.
You have been giving a lot of evasive responses and giving a ton of meaningless hoo-hah bible quotes.

I have seen these Masons ask you too many different times to tell them, exactly, which degree, rituals and/or ceremonies bestow this occult Luciferian tradition upon the initiate, and you have given them the run-around.

WHAT GIVES?

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I agree with your thesis in terms of putting God and often times ourselfs in a box basically trapping ones self in that box, i'v made this statement before but i feel out of these four symbols a square (box) triangle circle and X only one dose not trap you inside it's self and that is the X, as a mater of fact if you were dropped dead smack in the middle of the four symbols only the X offers a way out, as a mater of fact it offers four ways (paths) out.

That will definitely help you on a playstation though.

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Giving is the point.

Giving someone a guilt trip is the point?

Giving someone a bad first, second, and third impression is the point?

Giving someone a reason to discount Christians and think them foolish is the point?

What is it exactly that you think that you are giving Enoch?

The only thing that I honestly see you giving is a LACK of quality answers.
You have been giving a lot of evasive responses and giving a ton of meaningless hoo-hah bible quotes.

I have seen these Masons ask you too many different times to tell them, exactly, which degree, rituals and/or ceremonies bestow this occult Luciferian tradition upon the initiate, and you have given them the run-around.

WHAT GIVES?

Read the thread. I have answered. Questions based on an incorrect premise only require the correct premise to be answered. As for giving any negative judgment, I have not. I am on object delivering a subject. The subject judges if it is seen clearly. The only thing I can be accused of is showing you a clean mirror.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The problem is you seem to think that without your help, the masons have no faith, or at least the wrong faith. YOU DON"T KNOW. Any one of the masons here might be more learned than even you on the subject of theology. But you pompussly assume to have the upper hand out of an incredible EGO.

You continuously misunderstand that Freemasonry is not a religion, it's a tool to help understand religion and the Bible. It's a way of living and the lessons come straight out of the Bible.

If there is any truth to what you claim, then you will spend less time preaching to the masons about something you know little of and more time trying to understand what masonry really is.

Insight comes by sharing what you know. I am share what I know and living up to the charter of this website. If I see Ignorance, I deny it with what I know. If I am wrong, show it to me. I am more than eager to tear down my false walls with new information. So far, I am the only one sharing. Three threads on the same topic have been covered. What I produce is supported. The only thing I possess as my own is the implication I draw from the material. Share yours, please.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Share yours, please.

Here, this explains it quite nicely.

There is a wealth of information on that site. It counters most of the lies the lesser informed spew on here.

An explanation about Pike's quote.

"Still, I believe that Pike was wrong to use Lucifer in the scholarly sense. I remember an old man saying to me years ago, on a different subject, "It may be correct, but it just ain't right!" He had an excellent point. To be "correct" may be good for scholars writing for the enlightenment of other scholars: but for those with a real desire to communicate, recognition must be given to the common usage of words and terms. To this day some learned writers, as did Pike, have difficulty concentrating on communication, which may require explaining their terms of reference and curbing their vocabularial excess. To engage in the arrant pedantry of egregious sesquipedalianism (as in this sentence) is not communication. It's showing off. Pike must have known that virtually every Christian of this time firmly believed that Lucifer was Satan. He should have explained his use of the name, or he should have avoided it. And he should have held his scholarly vocabulary in check. However impressive the command of a language a writer may possess, if it cannot be understood as intended and baffles the reader, it is failing in its primary purpose, which should be clear, understandable communication."

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
For the Masons themselves, this is the unwritten mouth to ear knowledge.

Really now???

What degree? Which rite?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
So the question is, where in the ritual is Lucifer mentioned? Nowhere.

Finally! Some progress towards truth.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
It's the implication that is implied.

Oy vey!

Back down the rabbit hole

Fitz

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I have seen these Masons ask you too many different times to tell them, exactly, which degree, rituals and/or ceremonies bestow this occult Luciferian tradition upon the initiate, and you have given them the run-around.

WHAT GIVES?

Read the thread. I have answered.

Link to the post or it didn't happen.

Easey peasey if it exists; PITA because it doesn't

Fitz