The Problem with Greer

Originally posted by kronos11
reply to post by schuyler

 

I am not super familiar with Greer's work so pretty impartial to the subject.

Yet you are willing to jump in here and be a critic. If you are not familiar with his work, then you are also not familiar with the many incidents of fraud that have been documented.

and that he has filmed a couple of moths falsely, or mistakenly?, claiming them to be light beings - still, these items seem innocuous and really just a drop in the bucket to all of the positive ideas and goodwill that he is sharing.

Your logic escapes me here. So it's OK to be a fraud part of the time? Mothra is one of many instances of Greer & Co pawning off natural things as somehow aetheric. The hoots of owls become alien signals. Lens flares in cameras become mysterious "orbs" that are somehow supposed to mean something,.

I know that we can't stop people from being credulous believers. That much is obvious. But we can keep pointing out the discrepencies to people who are perhaps new to the field and hope they don't drink the Kool Aid as much as some already have. And I'm not about to spend $5,000 to go on one of these silly retreats (Tuition + transportation, lodging) just so I can say I've been there.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by kronos11
reply to post by schuyler

 

I am not super familiar with Greer's work so pretty impartial to the subject.

Yet you are willing to jump in here and be a critic. If you are not familiar with his work, then you are also not familiar with the many incidents of fraud that have been documented.

I was just trying to give some balance to what seemed to be a very heavily weighted thread against Greer apart from a couple of supporters - also, I have a magnificent BS meter which only slightly goes off around Greer and only because he has had to make a business out of this stuff.

Originally posted by schuyler
Your logic escapes me here. So it's OK to be a fraud part of the time? Mothra is one of many instances of Greer & Co pawning off natural things as somehow aetheric. The hoots of owls become alien signals. Lens flares in cameras become mysterious "orbs" that are somehow supposed to mean something,.

And yes you are correct I am not too familiar with his many incidents of fraud but with all of the examples you give - mothra, hooting owls as alien signals, lens flares as orbs etc... these all seem fairly harmless given the fact that these people generally fooled outright because of a desire to "want to believe" - I get that. But for as many of these kooky things that you can point to there are as many accounts of people who have really substantial experiences with Greer. Apart from doling out the dough to expose Greer as an absolute fraud I think it's all heresay - the minor instances of fraud you point are fairly common in ufology (people make mistakes like calling a moth a spirit being or dust particles orbs) and don't always constitute dishonesty, maybe just blind or misguided belief.

I myself have had close, indisputable contact a few times so there is no doubt in mind what is what. From my experience you will never get the photographic proof your looking for unless the ship was parked and turned off - they don't photograph at close range that is why you see no clear photos.

Originally posted by kronos11
And yes you are correct I am not too familiar with his many incidents of fraud but with all of the examples you give - mothra, hooting owls as alien signals, lens flares as orbs etc... these all seem fairly harmless given the fact that these people generally fooled outright because of a desire to "want to believe" -

This thread, and many others over time, are completely full of examples of fraud where Greer is concerned. We're not tallking just Mothra and orbs here. You can't judge this thing by reading one post previous and claim that doesn't matter. It's not a "mistake." It is intentional fraud. Read all 500 posts. Read the other threads. Read Greer's books. This thing has been as well documented as well as any fraud has. The links are all in this thread.

I really don't think it is necessary that every time someone new comes along to have to re-post every instance we have. Do we really need to re-post the story of how Greer held an alien baby in his arms? Do we really have to re-post, yet again, the story of Greer being attacked by "scalar" weapons? How about the time Greer was being stalked by Mexican soldiers with guns, but some UFOs flew over and they put down their weapons and began to play guitars? Oh, and he was responsible for the Phoenix Lights. How about the time he rode in a UFO and traveled to the moon? Or the time he visited a UFO and wound up with super-human powers? How about the time an invisible UFO landed at his campsite and invisible three foot tall aliens scampered about and sat on people's laps? But only Greer (and his nubile young assistants) could see them. Was that a mistake, too?

No one here is saying there is no such thing as UFOs. No one here is saying there is no such thing as aliens. This is not one of those scientific rationalist debunking threads that dismisses everything on principle as impossible. In fact, many of us, myself included, were initially impressed with Greer when we first encountered him at the Disclosure Project press conference. It's only in the last decade that we have encountered incident after incident that calls into question the veracity of what Greer has done.

I categorically reject the notion that someone who admittedly knows little of Greer can come her and casually dismiss a decade of knowledge about Greer with a wave of the hand. If you are really interested, read the threads, listen to the Greer videos, read what others have to say, become familiar with the many incidents related in this thread and others, then come back and give your informed opinion on Greer.

reply to post by kronos11

I was just trying to give some balance to what seemed to be a very heavily weighted thread against Greer apart from a couple of supporters...

29 pages in this thread isn't "heavily weighted", it's purposeful and malicious intent to discredit, defame and destroy. Regardless of whether Greer deserves it or not, the piling on and seemingly endless negative energy isn't any longer about Greer.

It's about the posters who populate this thread and their insipid, ego driven and nefarious behaviours.

Originally posted by QuantumQuackers
reply to post by kronos11

 

I was just trying to give some balance to what seemed to be a very heavily weighted thread against Greer apart from a couple of supporters...

29 pages in this thread isn't "heavily weighted", it's purposeful and malicious intent to discredit, defame and destroy. Regardless of whether Greer deserves it or not, the piling on and seemingly endless negative energy isn't any longer about Greer.

It's about the posters who populate this thread and their insipid, ego driven and nefarious behaviours.

S'cuse me....What about the negative energy you just dumped in another thread on the Spirituality aspects of tattoos in ancient cultures and history....practice what you preach...

I highly doubt you've read this whole thread on Greer.

Des

Originally posted by QuantumQuackers
reply to post by kronos11

 

I was just trying to give some balance to what seemed to be a very heavily weighted thread against Greer apart from a couple of supporters...

29 pages in this thread isn't "heavily weighted", it's purposeful and malicious intent to discredit, defame and destroy. Regardless of whether Greer deserves it or not, the piling on and seemingly endless negative energy isn't any longer about Greer.

It's about the posters who populate this thread and their insipid, ego driven and nefarious behaviours.

Don't forget the awesome contributions of sock puppet accounts that have nothing of substance to add except ad hominem attacks against posters who have actually contributed to the thread. You know the kind, accounts that have been here a whopping 24 hours, and make a beeline for Greer. Their sole purpose is to disrupt threads they don't like.

I have a lot more rspect for someone like fah, who despite the fact that he thinks he's the only contributor of substance to the thread, actually provided substantive contributions to analyzing his own picture. Yes, this is a negative Greer thread. You can kind of tell that by the title: The Problem with Greer.

If someone wants to do the research sufficient to post a thread on the virtues and god-like powers of Greer, I say put in the necessary time and energy and go for it. Make your case. But if all you're doing is coming here to call people names, then you are making a fool of yourself, which is obvious for anyone to see.

Originally posted by schuyler
Do we really need to re-post the story of how Greer held an alien baby in his arms? Do we really have to re-post, yet again, the story of Greer being attacked by "scalar" weapons? How about the time Greer was being stalked by Mexican soldiers with guns, but some UFOs flew over and they put down their weapons and began to play guitars? Oh, and he was responsible for the Phoenix Lights. How about the time he rode in a UFO and traveled to the moon? Or the time he visited a UFO and wound up with super-human powers? How about the time an invisible UFO landed at his campsite and invisible three foot tall aliens scampered about and sat on people's laps? But only Greer (and his nubile young assistants) could see them. Was that a mistake, too?

Apart from being extraordinary and some might say of a "paranormal" nature why should these instances you've cited, alien baby, invisible aliens, scalar weapon attacks, foreseeing (not responsible) the phoenix lights etc., be untrue and/or signs of fraud? Because you weren't there to witness them? Because they are so out of the ordinary or unbelievable to most? I skimmed some of the Greer threads most prominent on ATS and they were primarily packed full of exactly what is here, yet I still don't see any direct evidence of hoaxing. Is he a fraud just because his experience and methods appear to be "out there" or so unbelievable as to be absurd (mothra, hooting owls). Kind of throwing the baby out with the bath.

Originally posted by schuyler In fact, many of us, myself included, were initially impressed with Greer when we first encountered him at the Disclosure Project press conference. It's only in the last decade that we have encountered incident after incident that calls into question the veracity of what Greer has done.

Given this fact what do you think about his message? Or more or less his view, as told to him by the aliens, of Earth's history and it's evolution? He does have a galactic message that he preaches and according to my experience it's pretty spot on and has a ton of positive, forward thinking messages that are not really being espoused by anybody these days.

Originally posted by schuylerI categorically reject the notion that someone who admittedly knows little of Greer can come her and casually dismiss a decade of knowledge about Greer with a wave of the hand. .

You may be right, but I, like you, have an analytical mind and it's fairly clear from my perspective, with or without knowing much about Greer, that the arguments continually offered up proving him to be a fraudster are as equally convincing as a grainy blip on some youtube video claiming to be a craft from outer space .

Originally posted by kronos11

(people make mistakes like calling a moth a spirit being or dust particles orbs)

But with Greer they are not mistakes.

CSETI stated, as a matter of fact, that mothra was a "light being".

Greer stated the Joshua tree branch was an extraterrestrial ambassador wearing a space helmet and space boots! The branch of a tree, for crying out loud!!

Fah tells us they claimed the hotel lights were UFOs and ETs that they had vectored in.

They stated that an insect caught in a still frame of video was an "energy anchor" beaming into the group from space or another dimension and Greer sensed it was coming via his telepathic communication with the ETs! It was a moth flying close to the lens!!

They take a random snap shot of their location, study it for any strange-looking artifact then invent a lie to explain the extraterrestrial nature of it.

They are not making harmless mistakes at all.

In a way his tall stories and fabrications have backfired and bitten him in the arse with regard to Sirius. He has reiterated the fable that he is marked for assassination and all those around him are in danger. He implies that the more people support them (donate cash) the safer they will be. Now that Armadeep Kaleka's father has been murdered in a random hate crime Greer must be feeling embarrassed and ashamed.

Who knows, maybe he'll get a call from law enforcement agents who are investigating the killing to ask him to explain these alleged death threats he publicly announces.

Maybe that's why he's gone kinda quite on his blog.

Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by blazingdefiance

 

New around here, Blaze? Well, welcome aboard! I'm sure you will make some awesome contributions.

No, you mistake me in regards Clifford Stone. He seems like a nice, mild mannered guy, but to paraphrase the dawg, Clifford is bat guano loopy. Not to be believed or trusted in my book. Easy to see through. Wouldn't know an alien from a moth if'n you catch my drift.

Much like Greer, but not as mercenary. Hope that helps. See you around.

edit on 15-8-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

fair enough, good point, I allways seem to get carried away with the more outlandish acounts of these things which is probably why he caught my attention (I also have a good friend of over 12 years who is a firm believer of his, but then he's a fan of pretty much anything including Greer) but yeah i mean what did he say again? was it 57 types of e.t's documented? that is a VERY far out claim.

Love, Light, and all that crap....

If posters have no issue with being the like kind of South Chicago street bullies, I have no problem with pointing out the fact. It's a well earned label, deal with the concomitant results - especially those of you that have public personas.

If that is who you are and how you wish to be perfectly portrayed, carry on.

If not, then close your participation in the thread and shutdown the uselessly overzealous and thoroughly repetitive character assassination.

When is enough, enough? 50 pages of personality lacerations? 75? 100? Until Greer lies down dead? Do they self-righteous ever feel fulfilled?

Originally posted by QuantumQuackers
If posters have no issue with being the like kind of South Chicago street bullies, I have no problem with pointing out the fact. It's a well earned label, deal with the concomitant results - especially those of you that have public personas.

If that is who you are and how you wish to be perfectly portrayed, carry on.

If not, then close your participation in the thread and shutdown the uselessly overzealous and thoroughly repetitive character assassination.

When is enough, enough? 50 pages of personality lacerations? 75? 100? Until Greer lies down dead? Do they self-righteous ever feel fulfilled?

Thank Gawd you were assigned the position of Greer thread police...does it feel good....

Des

Originally posted by QuantumQuackers
If posters have no issue with being the like kind of South Chicago street bullies, I have no problem with pointing out the fact. It's a well earned label, deal with the concomitant results - especially those of you that have public personas.

A pretty apt description of your activities here so far. "South Chicago Street Bullies" is a good name for all the sock puppets who show up here to spout their nonsense. Please note that a good number of them have been banned. They reincarnate themselves and get banned again. I have a list of about a dozen.

You have yet to do anything substantive and have only called people names. If you do not care for the subject of the thread, you need not visit. Meanwhile a big thank you to many of the posters here who contributed lots of stuff I certainly did not know about Greer's activities. This includes fah and AB, who although have an opposing view, obviously put a lot time and effort into their contributions. I'm particularly interested in Hal9000's contribution, which was all new to me.

I will be archiving this entire thread to use as source material for a subsequent work, to be posted here, "Greer in Context" which will hopefully pull a lot of this stuff together in a cohesive package, with complete credit for everyone quoted, of course. I have been in contact with several attendees to Greer's outings (other than Fah! who have related their own stories of Camping with Orbs and are, I think, compelling in their own right.

reply to post by kronos11

Apart from being extraordinary and some might say of a "paranormal" nature why should these instances you've cited, alien baby, invisible aliens, scalar weapon attacks, foreseeing (not responsible) the phoenix lights etc., be untrue and/or signs of fraud? Because you weren't there to witness them? Because they are so out of the ordinary or unbelievable to most? I skimmed some of the Greer threads most prominent on ATS and they were primarily packed full of exactly what is here, yet I still don't see any direct evidence of hoaxing. Is he a fraud just because his experience and methods appear to be "out there" or so unbelievable as to be absurd (mothra, hooting owls).

It's amazing with all of the so-called documented cases of [alleged] fraud, conspiracy in felony and an assortment of other legal malfunctions that Greer hasn't been duly charged and convicted. What would it take but one truly unsatisfied excusionist or one donor who could call for the financial records of Greer's various fund raisning efforts.

Or one poster in this thread with their arms full of its contents?

Yet he walks a free man.

I would admire someone in this thread who has consistently cursed Greer to have the guts and honesty to take the lead in turning in this "fraud", seeing he is properly prosecuted and sentenced.

Is that going to happen?

lol

Naw, beating up on people gang-style is much more of an [alleged] effective way to end the Greer fraud. Yeah.

reply to post by schuyler
I have listened to his claims over the years. H
e is just init for the money, it upsets me that people can taken in by this man. In my opinion it puts all ufo and alien information into question. I have come to understand that this so called truth is in my opinion something much darker. And now I am looking into the demonic trick that pervades all mankind.

Godbless

Originally posted by QuantumQuackers
reply to post by kronos11

 

It's amazing with all of the so-called documented cases of [alleged] fraud, conspiracy in felony and an assortment of other legal malfunctions that Greer hasn't been duly charged and convicted. What would it take but one truly unsatisfied excusionist or one donor who could call for the financial records of Greer's various fund raisning efforts.

Or one poster in this thread with their arms full of its contents?

Yet he walks a free man.

I would admire someone in this thread who has consistently cursed Greer to have the guts and honesty to take the lead in turning in this "fraud", seeing he is properly prosecuted and sentenced.

You mistake the issue, probably intentionally. I do not think Greer has necessarilly committed illegal acts. Fraud is not only a legal term, but one used when someone misrepresents issues. For example, is it fraudulent for the Catholic Church to insist that you will go to Hell unless you commit to Jesus? I believe the Christian insistence on this belief is fraudulent, but I don't expect a prosecutor to bring forth charges.

And another. How about Project "Scamelot." Now we know this project as "Camelot," and, of course, you know who termed it "Scamelot," don't you?

You did.

You also call Project Avalon "Project Vomitorium." That is just SO classy! You really knocked it out of the park with that one. Always on the spot with facts and figures.

Why don't you apply the same "critical thinking skills" you used to determine "Project Scamelot" was indeed a scam to Greer's Project Mothra? After all, Greer was interviewed by Project Scamelot and can be considered a part of their archived material. They certainly were delighted to interview him. Indeed, if you saw the "Project Scamelot" interview with Greer you know Kerry Cassidy nearly tore off Greer's clothes in the middle of the interview. Do you think "Bungalow Bill Ryan" (again: your term) should be in jail but Greer should not?

I think you are being very selective here. Why you are attempting to defend Greer (and doing a very poor job of it) I don't know. Nor do I care much. But this thread and the contributions on it stand on their own, your "criticism" notwithstanding. Your posts also speak for themselves, emotional ad hominem attacks that say a whole lot more about you than they do anyone else here. I hope you are really proud of your posts.

reply to post by QuantumQuackers

It's amazing with all of the so-called documented cases of [alleged] fraud, conspiracy in felony and an assortment of other legal malfunctions that Greer hasn't been duly charged and convicted. What would it take but one truly unsatisfied excusionist or one donor who could call for the financial records of Greer's various fund raisning efforts.

Or one poster in this thread with their arms full of its contents?

Yet he walks a free man.

I would admire someone in this thread who has consistently cursed Greer to have the guts and honesty to take the lead in turning in this "fraud", seeing he is properly prosecuted and sentenced. Is that going to happen?

lol

Naw, beating up on people gang-style is much more of an [alleged] effective way to end the Greer fraud. Yeah.

Are you being serious b/c if you're serious, that's one of the most naive things ever read on Ats. If you're kidding about the gang's way to cut Greer's knees off, then that's one of the funniest things read on Ats.

Originally posted by QuantumQuackers

It's amazing with all of the so-called documented cases of [alleged] fraud, conspiracy in felony and an assortment of other legal malfunctions that Greer hasn't been duly charged and convicted. What would it take but one truly unsatisfied excusionist or one donor who could call for the financial records of Greer's various fund raisning efforts.

Or one poster in this thread with their arms full of its contents?

Yet he walks a free man.

I would admire someone in this thread who has consistently cursed Greer to have the guts and honesty to take the lead in turning in this "fraud", seeing he is properly prosecuted and sentenced.

Is that going to happen?

lol

Naw, beating up on people gang-style is much more of an [alleged] effective way to end the Greer fraud. Yeah.

Actually, if you had read this thread thoroughly, you would have seen this:

My Post About Greer as a Fraud

I know almost everything there is to know about Mr. Greer. I will not reveal at this time how far along the process is insofar as Mr. Greer and reporting his financial and other dealings are concerned, so as not to give him too much of a warning. Suffice it to say he should be very nervous; governmental authorities are very interested in his fraud and misuse of funds.

As I mentioned in my above post (link provided), I will publish much of the data I have on Mr. Greer in the somewhat near future - likely a few months. It will be provided on this and other forums.

Unfortunately, this thread has devolved into some nonsensical drivel over a very poor quality photo from a Greer supporter.

fah0436 - aka Frank A. H. III (real middle and last name left out on purpose) - is one very unusual individual. His proclivities could be described as disturbing by most reasonable folks. Unfortunately, I know more about Frank than I ever could've wished. He has taken this potentially interesting thread on the factual exploits of Greer, and turned it into 15 pages of pictorial buffoonery.

More about Mr. Greer coming to a forum near you...

reply to post by HAL9000beta1

I know almost everything there is to know about Mr. Greer. I will not reveal at this time how far along the process is insofar as Mr. Greer and reporting his financial and other dealings are concerned, so as not to give him too much of a warning. Suffice it to say he should be very nervous; governmental authorities are very interested in his fraud and misuse of funds.

Look forward to tracking you leading the charge in Greer's prosecution as our sole representative in ATS. Don't look over your shoulder, you'll find no one in this thread behind you.

Best of luck, let us know when all this transpires.

Originally posted by WhamBam
reply to post by QuantumQuackers

 

It's amazing with all of the so-called documented cases of [alleged] fraud, conspiracy in felony and an assortment of other legal malfunctions that Greer hasn't been duly charged and convicted. What would it take but one truly unsatisfied excusionist or one donor who could call for the financial records of Greer's various fund raisning efforts.

Or one poster in this thread with their arms full of its contents?

Yet he walks a free man.

I would admire someone in this thread who has consistently cursed Greer to have the guts and honesty to take the lead in turning in this "fraud", seeing he is properly prosecuted and sentenced. Is that going to happen?

lol

Naw, beating up on people gang-style is much more of an [alleged] effective way to end the Greer fraud. Yeah.

Are you being serious b/c if you're serious, that's one of the most naive things ever read on Ats. If you're kidding about the gang's way to cut Greer's knees off, then that's one of the funniest things read on Ats.

Then laugh, laugh and the whole world will laugh with you!

reply to post by HAL9000beta1

Unfortunately, this thread has devolved into some nonsensical drivel over a very poor quality photo from a Greer supporter. fah0436 - aka Frank A. H. III (real middle and last name left out on purpose) - is one very unusual individual. His proclivities could be described as disturbing by most reasonable folks. Unfortunately, I know more about Frank than I ever could've wished.

If you are alleging that the fah0436 you "researched" using Google is the same one that is posting in this thread, I suggest you consider the grand possibility of coincidence first until facts replace it.

\He has taken this potentially interesting thread on the factual exploits of Greer, and turned it into 15 pages of pictorial buffoonery.


And whose fault is that? All "Frank's"? If he had been ignored and responded over and again to himself, you might have a pinpoint. "Frank" did no such thing.

"Frank" had a quiver full of arrows shot in him, none self-inflicted.