The Problem with Greer

reply to post by schuyler

I hereby disavow and repudiate that subject for this thread.

I'll make a note of that. "Schuyler commands, we must react".

Originally posted by ReallyNiceGuy

I don't understand. do you concur that Dr. Steven Greer is a pedophile..or not?

So you're back trying to shift the discussion towards paedophilia as you did here and here and here

I'm sure you'll be able to find sites more suited to your tastes elsewhere on the Internet but not here on ATS.

here is a tragedy...if true.

Can anyone resolve this?

Sirius (Dr Steven Greer) Film-maker's Father SHOT in Sikh Temple Massacre

Originally posted by ReallyNiceGuy
here is a tragedy...if true.

Can anyone resolve this?

Sirius (Dr Steven Greer) Film-maker's Father SHOT in Sikh Temple Massacre

No no one here can. There is a thread on this subject here. Why not go on over there and check it out?

Originally posted by torsion

Deceitful photo editing could also apply. Fah states that he wasn't shown the photo until 30 minutes after it was taken. If the photo was genuine they would have drawn immediate attention to it, shown it within seconds of taking it and tried to observe the phenomena and take more photos. The 30-minute delay adds to the ever increasing mound of evidence that CSETI/Greer is a fraud.

Photo editing - NO!
As i've said many times, the orbs were NOT visible when the photo was taken. So NO immediate attention was even possible, RIGHT!!!!!

It wasn't until the data was reviewed on the beach during a break that the orb photo was discovered.
And then it was immediately displayed for everyone to see on a laptop screen - only screen big enough for a group to see simultaneously. And my estimate is that the picture was taken about 30 minutes before that display.

I see no real possibility of photoshopping, partial tinting, multiple exposure overlay or image manipulation on the beach. Too dark, cold and windy.

Much easier and safer to get an image on a lense filter and use that.
Not that I think or believe that was done.

reply to post by schuyler


The only "problem" with Greer is that he is, along with David Icke, a Reptilian. They both serve an agenda behind the one they're openly presenting. It's fabricated opposition filled with truth, semi-truth and disinformation. They are a distraction. They are tools that can be useful to some people who thanks to them wake up, a trigger of sort, but then remain trapped in their "circle of wisdom" that has no end. In other words - those people that they wake up and then blindly follow their every move and see them as "saviours", remain in the end still asleep even though they think they are fully awake and "know it all". So yes, Greer and others look "good" on the outside and smile at the anti-NWO cameras, but in the end it's a trap.

Originally posted by fah0436

Photo editing - NO!
As i've said many times, the orbs were NOT visible when the photo was taken. So NO immediate attention was even possible, RIGHT!!!!!

But they would have been visible on the camera's display! The CSETI photographer must have seen them!

It wasn't until the data was reviewed on the beach during a break that the orb photo was discovered.
And then it was immediately displayed for everyone to see on a laptop screen - only screen big enough for a group to see simultaneously. And my estimate is that the picture was taken about 30 minutes before that display.

There we go! They downloaded the photos to a laptop and had 30-mins manipulation time!!

I see no real possibility of photoshopping, partial tinting, multiple exposure overlay or image manipulation on the beach. Too dark, cold and windy.

It only takes a few minutes on the laptop regardless of the weather conditions.

Do you still not agree that the image below shows that the "orbs" are indeed the hotels?



Thanks for your input, Fah, even though we disagree. Now I know they had a laptop it's case closed for me with regards to the Marco Island photo.

By the way, was that the only photo they presented you with?

Originally posted by fah0436
I see no real possibility of photoshopping, partial tinting, multiple exposure overlay or image manipulation on the beach. Too dark, cold and windy.

Much easier and safer to get an image on a lense filter and use that.
Not that I think or believe that was done.

The question of whether Steven Greer will play fast & loose with photographs has been demonstrated in the affirmative here. The moth photo is a perfect example and the "alien overlord" photo was pretty compelling.

Your photo, fah, is rather questionable as well. While the evidence is not quite as conclusive as the two above, it has been demonstrated very well by torsion that the "orbs" do bear a striking resemblance to the hotel lights.

We've also seen that even an iphone can quickly produce a double exposure with selective tinting and leave no pixellation of a cut-out image.

30 minutes, btw, is plenty of time to drop a prepared overlay of "orbs" onto your photo on the beach. I've edited a lot of video in the field and overlays, or "layers" are really simple to do. The hotel lights could even be "masked" in that time and depending on technique wouldn't have any pixellation around said layer given that orb/hotel lights are very bright.

With the convincing proofs of Greer's affinity for making unsupportable claims in regards photographs, it becomes rather clear to me that any photo produced by team Greer is suspect unless proven otherwise.

Having said all that, we are still left with some legitimate questions when it comes to our mega-contactee Dr. Steven Greer:

1.) He shouts "Disclosure" and then not only has the paying members of his ufo outings sign "disclosure" contracts, but makes astounding claims and then hides behind various reasons why he won't "disclose. That's hyper-hypocritical no matter how I look at it.

2.) The evidence is compelling that he plays fast and loose with photos. Again the moth photo speaks for itself and at the very least would show Greer to be too naive to be taken seriously.

3.) He has made outrageous claims about free energy, but never comes through. The points made about open sourcing any such alleged materials he possesses are a powerful indictment in themselves.

4.) Greer is very active in raising funds, often claims to be scraping by, and yet lives a lifestyle that is fairly world-class.

5.) Any alleged experiences by clients of his outings are rather vague and don't really answer any questions. Greer's various assertions actually seem to confuse the issue rather than offer any illumination.

I say we move on past your photograph and and truly ponder the issues listed above.

Originally posted by fah0436
Photo editing - NO!
As i've said many times, the orbs were NOT visible when the photo was taken. So NO immediate attention was even possible,

I tend to agree with you on this point. It wasn't necessary. I'm not a professional photographer, but I've done a lot of photography over the years, including developing and enlarging my own prints. The "best" photographers are those who use manual cameras and make their own settings. Like a lot of us, I started out with the "Brownie" type cameras that were essentially point and shoot with round flashbulbs. Over the years cameras have grown more sophisticated. I encountered my first "hybrid" with the Canon A-1 and continued with the Nikon 5700 Coolpix, which can be fully automatic.

This is a mixed blessing. The brains are in the camera, not your head, and though the settings can be overridden if you know how, few people these days bother to learn the basics. What I suggest has happened here is that someone had an automatic digital camera and let the camera do all the work. Whether they had an expensive Digital SLR @ $2000 or a simple Coolpix @ $200 wouldn't make much difference. At night the camera seeks to expose what it sees as well as it can. The two settings it can deal with involve speed of the shot and the degree to which the lens is open.

It's a tradeoff. If the speed is any less than 1/60th of a second, you are going to need a tripod because holding the camera by hand will result in blurring because your hand will move if the speed is set at a 1/30th of a second or longer. At night that camera is going to want the slowest speed possible. It will also set the lens as wide as possible in order to take in more light. This also tends to cause lens flare and blurring. The camera is looking for every bit of light it can. At night most of the light sensors are sensing darkness even if there are some lights in the shot, so the first thing the camera does is open up the lens. The second thing it does is slow down the speed.

When that camera is pointed at the hotels at night, it's going to overexpose the lights on the hotels. The lights will appear a bit blurry, and I'm not surprised they are in color. It's a color camera. To the camera, those lights are in color. It's taking the picture under a stressful (to the camera) situation where it is compromised to the point of making mistakes. Now if the photographer were a pro, he could almost certainly adjust for that and he would almost certainly use a tripod.

But when you think about it, why should he? He doesn't see the orbs through the camera lens at all. In fact, if it's a cheaper camera, he isn't even looking through the lens at all, but through a separate viewfinder. An SLR (single lens reflex) means you are looking through the lens and seeing what you are shooting. I don't want to make too big a point of this because no matter where he was looking, the photographer is using his eyes.

And your eyes are pretty good at focusing. Your night vision kicks in at about 30 minutes of darkness, and you see the hotel lights as hotel lights. They aren't blurred. They aren't in color. They are not over-sized, even if you paid attention to them at all. So of course no one saw the orbs, Your eyes are smarter than the camera. So the pic is taken. They remove the memory card and stick it in a laptop. Lo and behold, the "orbs" appear and everyone "Oohs" and "Ahs."

Now the context is, of course, that here are a few people who paid good money to see something cool. The conversation has been about aliens, cloaked spaceships, and such. This picture is just perfect for keeping the illusion going. Whether Greer & Co. knew this would happen in advance, I don't know, but it certainly was advantageous to the entire program. No fakery required. You are already "in the zone" and primed to believe.

And here's poor fah who is duped like a mark in a carnival show.

Now at first I had no idea what these things were either. We all tried on various explanations for how it might have happened. It was a group effort, including fah shooting down our more far reaching explanations. And it turns out that the explanation is as simple as could be. It requires no fakery, no preparation, not even any evil intent. It's just a simple picture of hotel lights at the right place at the right time.

Torsion nailed down the answer. Nothing we have learned since that time refutes it and what we do know about the characteristics of automatic cameras confirms it. Good job everyone, including fah, who is as much responsible for getting us to the explanation as anyone. Occam's Razor scores again. Complex, tortured explanations are simply not necessary.

Fah, this has nothing to do with your other experiences. I believe you when you say you had them. But this one is over. That doesn't mean there aren't any friendly aliens; I hope there are! And there are UFOs, but these are hotel lights. Sorry.

reply to post by torsion


My understanding was that at least one high resolution still camera was set up so that automatic periodic photos were taken, probably under laptop control. There was also a high resolution video camera and a LOT of other sensors, to the extent they were not and could not ALL be monitored in real time. Most of the data was relayed in real time to computers because there was not sufficient data capacity on the devices themselves. Remember, we were on the beach from like 10PM to 4AM.

An NO, there is no way the hotel lights were the orbs.
Wrong direction.
Wrong elevation.
(Note - a photo overlay technique COULD correct the above, but NOT: )
Orb bottom line (S curve) does agree with hotel bottom line (gradual semicircle)
Orb top line only occasionally agree with hotel top line (your photo conveniently cuts off a lot of this data).
Colors:. Hotel lights are white. Orbs are multicolored and overlap. Even tinting won't do this.
Need i say more???

And why go to all this trouble to match to a physical feature - especially if as you say it was photoshopped anyway.

If you (or anyone for that matter) can manipulate a nighttime hotel photo in about 30 minutes to look like the orbs and show and describe how it was done, I would be willing to reconsider.

And if a laptop or portable computing device being present bothers you, then I would suggest nothing will make you happy because they are EVERYWHERE!

Originally posted by fah0436
reply to post by torsion

 

If you (or anyone for that matter) can manipulate a nighttime hotel photo in about 30 minutes to look like the orbs and show and describe how it was done, I would be willing to reconsider.

No manipulation required. Just take the picture at night with an automatic digital camera. Click. Done. Your orbs are nothing more than blurred lights from a camera that can't quite get the job done.

It's so simple a child could do it.

reply to post by fah0436

An NO, there is no way the hotel lights were the orbs. Wrong direction. Wrong elevation. (Note - a photo overlay technique COULD correct the above, but NOT: ) Orb bottom line (S curve) does agree with hotel bottom line (gradual semicircle) Orb top line only occasionally agree with hotel top line (your photo conveniently cuts off a lot of this data). Colors:. Hotel lights are white. Orbs are multicolored and overlap. Even tinting won't do this. Need i say more???

Not to me.

To the diehards who lie to impugn Greer's character? Who cares?

Originally posted by WhamBam
reply to post by fah0436

 

Not to me.

To the diehards who lie to impugn Greer's character? Who cares?

If there were actual lies that would be libel (written) or slander (oral) they would be actionable, right? But you can't really point out actual lies, can you? You just pretend they are out there. When you actually get to the substance of what you appear to be talking about, all we find is a vacuum.

The only outright lie I remember on this thread was brought up by a Greer supporter and was disavowed by nearly everyone here who cared to comment on it. It was kind of ironic that the anti-Greer crowd was supporting Greer in this and the Greer supporter, well, he kind of mixed himself up and is now no longer with us. That happens when you can't keep your story straight.

If you can actually point to lies, bring 'em up. we'll deal with them.

OK - I'm posting without reading the comments since ReallyNiceGuy and torsion's reply to him, but I wanted to report in with Star Chart information regarding the photo.

I can't post it, as it is an app on my phone that I just downloaded. You can put in the date, location and time and it shows the stars for those parameters. I had to use Naples, FL, which is a bit North but on the water. I set it for 11:50PM on March 10, 2011. The app is called SkyView.

In the photo, at a southwest direction, you can clearly see Sirius of Canis Major (and interestingly, of movie-title fame) and the other stars in that constellation. It also matches on out with Regor, Naos and T-0026. Above them you can see the two stars of Pyxis. On the right side of the photo you can see a little bit of Orion - two stars of the belt. Etc. I'm not seeing anything that shouldn't be there.

As Naples is slightly North of Marco Island, everything I'm seeing on the app would be more to the south than it would actually be on Marco Island. So, the most southern or left-most edge of the photo has T-0179 and T-005. There are no weird overlays of stars.

The chart proves the date, time and location. The line of sight, by the stars would not be southern enough to include the hotels as the leading edge of the "orbs" is/are directly to the southwest, not to the south.

torsion and all, I am really really 100% sure that the hotels are NOT in the background of the photo based on this information and what the line of sight really is. Please check my work for yourself if you can get this same app. I will go back to see the current discussion and where everyone is with this...

peace,
AB

reply to post by AboveBoard

Good thinking.
I actually have Skyview on my iPhone.
Here is the image at the location, date and time you specified:

reply to post by fah0436


Cool! Hey fah - put in 6h 36min (approx)/-22 degrees to get Sirius more like the photo - and then pan left a bit for the rest. You have the hind-quarters/tail on the far right (Sirius is just a tad more to the right - and it's the brightest star in the photo.)

I really don't know how to capture the screen, so it is good you can.

- AB

reply to post by AboveBoard

I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

TO capture an image on an iPhone, hit and hold the power button then hit the big button (back, not sure what it's called). That effectively takes a screen shot. Remember that Skyview puts the camera image on the screen too, so make sure you block out the camera lens.

Its probably worth noting that Tigertail beach is really not on a north/south direction. But I and most others have treated the beach as such for reference purposes. As can be seen clearly on Google, the beach line aimed north is really more on a 315 degree heading. That why the photo has Southwest in the direction of the stars and the beach line. The hotels are really much more toward the South east than south.

On Greer’s current Sirius blog there are numerous comments. Greer picks and chooses which questions he answers (which is understandable)

The following question was asked:

I know the thorough testing of the DNA from the Starchild skull was quoted at $1 million. I hope you can get a better deal. Are you going to provide instructions to how to donate for this specific scientific endeavor?

It was answered by Greer just over 1 hour of it being posted:

Donations would remain via Sirius.Neverendinglight.com- Thank you!

Another question with answer:

Any information on where the EBE came from, crashed ufo, location, whatever?

Yes, but we have been asked not to discuss for security reasons.

I was surprised to see this question get through moderation:

Like many others I made a donation to the Sirius documentary funding, and I’d really love to see this project not vanish into nothingness.
By the way: what happened to the CE-5 initiative with a major G-7 country to promote public announcement of official Contact a couple of years ago…?!?
Concerned but still full of confidence

The question was asked 4 days ago but there has been no response from Greer. Perhaps he wasn’t expecting an enquiry that relates to one of many previously unfulfilled promises from a person who has swallowed his Sirius sham hook, line and sinker.

If Sirius does come to nothing it’s too late for those who have parted with their pledges as it clearly states on the Sirius page: DISCLAIMER: All donations are final and will not be refunded. *

But I’m sure Sirius will be made. However, it will contain nothing like the backers expect. It will be one big glossy commercial for CSETI’s Ambassador to the Universe trainings and donations to the Orion Project – the stick with the carrot will have extended even further. We, the public, will not be quite ready for full disclosure. But maybe next year, if further funds can be raised...

*(So absolutely no chance of Fah getting a refund for his hotel lights photo!)

Originally posted by torsion

*(So absolutely no chance of Fah getting a refund for his hotel lights photo!)

Why would I want to! It's an amazing photo. And I took away from that amazing experience a lot more than just that photo. Worth every penny and more.

Torsion, You're the only person that thinks those orbs were hotel lights!
I'm still waiting to see some real evidence as are others!!!!!

I think it’s about time to wrap this thread up. And as the only significant contributor of any real significance, this is my summary. But I very much doubt it will be the last word.

I’ve done as much as I possibly can do to highlight my amazing experiences with Greer. I hope that those who read this that have reasonably open minds will not let the naysayers negatively affect you too much and will seek out similar opportunities for yourself.

Nobody has come up with any convincing data of arguments to change my mind on anything. Could the orb image have been faked? Could the helicopter episode been staged? These conclusions are barely feasible in my view, not very likely at all.

OF course the attacks here on Greer have been completely predictable. And the same old worn techniques leading by divide and conquer and cherry picking mistakes and less then steller moments. Pick out a person X (i.e. Greer), highlight some oversights and faults and then completely discredit him by calling him a fraud. Greer has been heading 3 projects in two of the most difficult endeavors (UFOs/Disclosure and Free Energy) anyone can imagine for over 20 years. If all you can come up with is the moth photo (very old and on every Greer thread and not conclusive at all as even the author says), then you have NOTHING, Nada, ZILCH! It is absolutely MEANINGLESS in the grand scheme of things.

Of course if someone really wanted to discredit him, they would go on one of his excursion and do so. Are any of you disbelievers up to doing that? Of course it has probably been tried, and the results (or more likely lack thereof) speak for themselves.

And these techniques continued into my own experiences where people tried to disassociate related events and pick on the weakest and easiest events to try to discredit, wholly unsuccessfully. There have been suppositions and theories only. The logic goes like because X could have been done to fake something, X WAS done. Most of the attackers have giving absolutely NO consideration to even the possibility that what I saw, heard and felt was REAL despite myself having supplied a very significant amount of evidence to the contrary.

For those of you in the above category, I invite you to look inside yourself. What is it that you are afraid of? People of other races? Smarter people/beings? Alien beings coming to take over the world? Losing your job or friends? The New World Order and the control it has over you? Or simply the unknown? Whatever it is, you need to overcome these fears and stop letting your ego control your life.

Don’t feel sorry for me or say that I have been taken or put words in my mouth. I feel sorry for those of you who have not had such experiences. And I have limited myself to my experiences with Greer in this thread. I could add a lot of other non-Greer experiences that further back up my Greer experiences, but I did want to try to keep this thread reasonable on topic.

And Greer is not even the tip of the iceberg. You also need to address people like Kerri Cassidy, Linda Molten-Howe, Stanton Friedman, Jim Marrs, Erich von Daniken, Zacharia SItchin, Graham Hancock, Timothy Good, Phillip Corsco, Patricia Cori, Michael Tellinger, Geoff Stray, Courtney Brown and HUNDREDS of others. I have also read highly credible channeled information mentioning and praising Richard Hoagland, David Wilcock, Gene Roddenberry, David Icke, Gregg Braden, Ben Fulford and even lately in just the last two days, Stephen Greer for his Sirius project. These people have been willing to put their reputation on the line and are really making a difference in this world (and probably the universe as well)! How many of you reading this has ever been willing to do that? Let me know when you have, and I’ll listen to you. Until then, you don’t count for much with me.

I guess one good thing it that those of you who choose to believe that the excursion group was mentally controlled by Greer certainly believe in MKULTRA and Manchurian candidates, right? This of course logically leads to world control and the New World Order. So at least you believe in SOME conspiracies. You should at least resonate with the Thrive movie!

Granted, my experiences with Greer cover a lot of ground. UFO’s, Extra dimensional beings (hearing, seeing and feeling them), Remote Viewing, Telepathy, image transference and probably some others I have forgotten. I can certainly understand how many of you are not ready for this type of material. But you better get ready, because it’s coming to a head – THIS YEAR!

If you really are ready to go further, I invite you to read Why the 2012 Phenomenon is Real, one of the few thread I have actually authored here on ATS. That will give you a lot more insight into me and where my forty year journey has taken me.

In closing, I send Love, Light and Happiness to you all, Some of you really need it!