The Problem with Greer

Originally posted by fah0436

I think it’s about time to wrap this thread up.

Really?

And as the only significant contributor of any real significance.., .

Double really?!!

If you really are ready to go further, I invite you to read Why the 2012 Phenomenon is Real,

I got as far as - "STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND READ THIS! It will be the most important article you have ever read!"

Don’t feel sorry for me or say that I have been taken or put words in my mouth.

So why are you signing off with such a Greerian statement? -

In closing, I send Love, Light and Happiness to you all,

Thanks again for the photo!

Originally posted by fah0436

Originally posted by torsion

*(So absolutely no chance of Fah getting a refund for his hotel lights photo!)

Why would I want to! It's an amazing photo. And I took away from that amazing experience a lot more than just that photo. Worth every penny and more.

Torsion, You're the only person that thinks those orbs were hotel lights!
I'm still waiting to see some real evidence as are others!!!!!

No, Torsion is not the only one. No one else is compelled to provide you any more evidence than has already been presented. The onus on proof is not on anyone but yourself. The only thing "amazing!" about this is that you can look at a bunch of lights and be divinely inspired. It's just like Roxanne and the UFOs full of aliens that turned out to be car lights on the hill across from her apartment. She continued to be "amazed!" too even when it became so painfully obvious that she became a laughingstock on YouTube.

You've been conned, fah. It's really a testimony to how good Greer is at conning people. If he can make people believe there are invisible three foot tall aliens crawling on people's laps, he can do just about anything. I would put him right up there with L. Ron Hubbard in the success of the con. (L. Ron Hubbard to Isaac Asimov: "I've got a scam that will make P.T. Barnum look like a piker!")

Now, have we not beat this dead horse long enough? The thread is about Greer in general. It's not about "Fah's Experience Camping with Greer" Thanks to you, fah, we know all about Fah's Experienxce Camping with Greer. We know all about Fah mistaking hotel lights for mysterious orbs which, for some unknown reason, have deep significance.

We all understand that "Fah Believes!!!!" We've got that, okay? We all understand how your personal experience has great personal significance to you. Thanks for sharing. But we're going to have to agree to disagree. Your continuing to badger us over and over and over again amounts to hijacking the thread.

reply to post by fah0436

Why would I want to! It's an amazing photo. And I took away from that amazing experience a lot more than just that photo. Worth every penny and more.

Is it part of your signed Non-Disclosure Agreement to not reveal the cost of your Marco Island expedition? What else is covered? Have you violated any part of that NDA - I am suggesting that you may have.

IMO, Greer's primary focus has been the concealment of recovered - and replicated - alien technologies. Are these issues covered in the NDA you signed?

Mood Music for the Below. Clicky Now.


The thought hits me that the Steven Greer saga would make a grand ice skating opera:

Woo-Woos on Ice!

A cast of hundreds. Colorful costumes. We're gonna need some wee-folk that can skate too. The audience will be warmed up with some creative visualization techniques and then:

Magnificent themes. Orbs of brilliant Light, a smoking backlit Free Energy device that never quite works, Little mischievous Aliens skating around.

The building antithesis of Disclosure vs Non-Disclosure highlighted by a dueling duet between Greer and a Skeptical Nemesis.

And then: A little Alien Baby is born. This is IT!! Disclosure at last!

Just when it looks like a happy ending. The Villain skates in (Hey! Doesn't that kind of look like Greer behind that mask? Isn't he the Hero?) and sabotages the Free Energy device, steals the Alien Baby, boards a Black Helicopter and disappears into the night.

FINI

Whatt'ya think? I'm not totally kidding. I think it would be kick-butt!!

FINI indeed.
I'm done. It's been... informative here at ATS.

peace to you all,

AB

Originally posted by AboveBoard
FINI indeed.
I'm done. It's been... informative here at ATS.

peace to you all,

AB

Aww, c'mon, Ab. I sorry. A little. GUT loves ya! I take some funnin' for my belief system too. No big deal. Schuyler hit me a little hard here as well, you just didn't notice. I laughed. He's good at zingers.

And, I think most of us come by our anti-Greer sentiments honestly. We believe we are trying to help. What's wrong with that?

You don't think it would be a grand ice opera? I'll change the name if that makes a difference: Disclosure on Ice!

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by AboveBoard
FINI indeed.
I'm done. It's been... informative here at ATS.

peace to you all,

AB

Aww, c'mon, Ab. I sorry. A little. I take some funnin' for my belief system too. No big deal. I think most of us come by our anti-Greer sentiments honestly.

You don't think it would be a grand ice opera? I'll change the name if that makes a difference: Disclosure on Ice!

It was a general statement, The GUT. Not directed at you. (Apology, even a little one, not needed, really.)
Do you like Federico Fellini? Too bad he is not alive to direct your ice-capade, but since it's about "woo-woo" then perhaps he WOULD be available?? ;-)

One person's "hotel lights" (which would require the island to magically bend around at about a 60 degree+/- angle to be in the picture, as well as stretch in length, to make that happen, along with...*sigh* not worth it.) are another persons "orbs."

Whatever. I'm done. I think I'll go back to lurking.

peace,
AB

PS - There is nothing wrong with trying to help. That's what I'm doing too...

Originally posted by The GUT
You don't think it would be a grand ice opera? I'll change the name if that makes a difference: Disclosure on Ice!

Oh, poo. I thought your finis would be it, kind of like last time, Gut, but as in all modern melodrama, you have to go through several endings before you get to the ending (just like Goldfinger)

In any case, I'm not convinced by AB. He never could take us through chapter and verse. We had to take his word for it. "Just trust me on this one" doesn't cut it.

Disclosure on Ice works for me.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by The GUT
You don't think it would be a grand ice opera? I'll change the name if that makes a difference: Disclosure on Ice!

Oh, poo. I thought your finis would be it, kind of like last time, Gut, but as in all modern melodrama, you have to go through several endings before you get to the ending (just like Goldfinger)

In any case, I'm not convinced by AB. He never could take us through chapter and verse. We had to take his word for it. "Just trust me on this one" doesn't cut it.

Disclosure on Ice works for me.

edit on 8/14/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

Not convinced by me??
What are you talking about???
My integrity remains intact.
Well, incidentally, I'm not a 'he.' But that's enough personal "disclosure."
;-)

- AB

To "The Gut" I think your ice skating musical would be awesome, just let me know if you need a composer or instrument player!

as for the whole Greer topic, I didn't actually come across his work til later in my research (strange but never the less) and upon initially watching the "National Press Club" address I was quite impressed, not so much with Greer himself but with others he had organised to be on the panel. Then upon watching the video I find it was fillmed way back in 2001, which left me asking myself, what happend to this guy, all this and then nothing? how odd.... I'll still listen to what information the man puts foward as I find the very challange of sorting Info from Dis-info entertaining to say the least, and who knows even if it is dis-info we can always hope for a slip of the tounge or a miraculous change of heart by someone related to the project mid live conference. (not holding my breath though)

Participants in the May, 2001 Disclosure Project Press Conference

John Cipher: The actor (Hill Street Blues, etc.) gave the introduction

Steven Greer: Host, a short speech telling how he has dedicated his life to Disclosure. He has four daughters. He is still claiming he “briefed” CIA Director Woolsey two years after he received the cease and desist letter from him.

John Callahan: FAA Accidents & Investigations, relates the JAL Alaska incident in 1986 where he says the President’s Scientific Study Group (Reagan) held a meeting, confiscated evidence, and swore people to secrecy that the meeting never happened. He said the members were very excited because this was the first time they had 30 minutes of data on a UFO.

Lt Col Charles Brown: USAF, was attached to AFOSI and worked on Project Grudge. He believes Blue Book was a whitewash.

Michael Smith: USAF Sgt, Air traffic control, was assigned to Klamath Falls, Oregon and had several sightings on radar of an object at 80,000 feet.

Enrique Kolbeck: Mexican Air Traffic Controller detected 15 objects on radar.

Graham Bethune: USN pilot saw a UFO in 1951 which tailed his aircraft/

Dan Willis: USN, was in a code room in San Francisco in 1969 when he read a message coming from a ship in the Gulf of Alaska that reported a large USO coming out of the water and then speeding into space.

Don Phillips: USAF, worked on the SR-71 and says there was a predecessor airplane set up especially for the CIA that might have been used to chase UFOs. He also personally witnessed some fast lights in the sky.

Robert Salas: USAF Captain, related the Maelstrom AFB story of UFOs knocking out nukes.

Dwayne Arnesson: USAF Lt. Col. says he saw a message that said a UFO had crashed in Spitsbergen, Norway, saw another message confirming ICBMs being deactivated, and yet another message that reported UFOs around nuclear facilities.

Harland Bentley: USA PFC was stationed at a Nike base in 1958 when he saw a UFO that might have crashed and the next day a friend of his had 12-15 UFOs at his base. Ten years later he heard an astronaut signal a “bogey” during one of the Moon shots.

John Maynard: USA PFC says he saw pictures of UFOs in documents and maintains there is a shadow government

Karl Wolf: USAF Sgt. Was working on the lunar orbiter as a photographer. While in the darkroom another airman showed him a picture of a lunar base.

Donna Hare: NASA. A technician showed her a round dot with a shadow on Earth that the tech said was airbrushed out. Also relates incident of a guard told to burn UFO pictures, but not look at them. When he did another guard knocked him out/ Also relates incident of someone else in the quarantine with the Apollo astronauts who reported a UFO on the Moon.

Larry Warren: USAF, one of the Bentwaters witnesses

George Filer III: USAF, MUFON area director, says London Air Traffic Control asked him to chase a UFO. He also relates the Tehran F-4 incident and the Fort Dix incident where a UFO landed and an alien was shot and killed.

Clifford Stone: USA SFC, related his story of participating in UFO retrieval operations. He says there are 57 different races of aliens.

Mark McCandlish: USAF artist saw a UFO as a kid and drew an artist concept of an Alien Reproduction Vehicle shown at an airshow.

Daniel Sheehan: lawyer and counsel to the Disclosure Project and associated with the Jesuits, says the Congressional Research Office involved him in trying to get access to the Vatican Library. This was in response to Carter demanding access to UFO material and George Bush, Sr. refusing him. He says he was in a secure area and allowed to see some pictures of a UFO and managed to smuggle out the symbols by tracing hem on a yellow legal pad.

Carol Rosin: Relates conversations she had with Werner von Braun about the need to stop the weaponization of space because the ETs are a peaceful bunch.

Some of these guys we know; some of them we don't. Some of them are straight shooters; some of them are not playing with a full deck. Note how many of them are relating third party information. They "saw a message" or a friend of theirs told them something. In listening to this again I am much less impressed with them than I was the first time around.

Originally posted by schuyler
Participants in the May, 2001 Disclosure Project Press Conference

Some of these guys we know; some of them we don't. Some of them are straight shooters; some of them are not playing with a full deck. Note how many of them are relating third party information. They "saw a message" or a friend of theirs told them something. In listening to this again I am much less impressed with them than I was the first time around.

edit on 8/14/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

yeah I must say on my next couple of viewings the impact had definatley decreased on me, interesting none the less but as you say schuyler, "some of them are straight shooters; some of them are not playing with a full deck"
time to play pick and choose

reply to post by blazingdefiance


Greer says he has over 400 witnesses, but just taking the Press Club witnesses alone and leaving out Greer, who did not serve as a witness for the event, of 19 witnesses, only eight actually saw something. I'm including those people who saw something on radar, i.e.: via machine, not eyewitness to an actual object. Only two of the witnesses were pilots who encountered a UFO while flying and actually saw an object, and two more saw some lights in the sky. All the rest of the wtinesses saw messages, heard reports from others, or were engaged in meetings about UFOs.

Two of them, Carol Rosin and Clifford Stone, are not the least bit reliable, in my opinion. Stone is certifiable. Rosin's only connection is that she talked with Werner von Braun and is into the politics of it.

Now I know getting 19 witnesses in the same room at the same time is a difficult logistical feat, but when you look at what they actualy said, this isn't really a very good witness group. Most of them are giving hearsay evidence. We've got a lot better witnesses here on ATS. Six of the 19, nearly a third either saw a message or a picture, or were shown a picture. Well, I bet I've seen more pictures of UFOs than they have.

I'm not inclined to visit each one of these witnesses, at least not here. It's just that they are pretty mediocre, and the thing is, this is the best Greer has ever done in terms of looking credible and presenting a coherent argument for congressional hearings and MSM attention. From here on out things go downhill fast. When people take a look at Greer, they will frequently cite the Press Club as a "watershed" event, but was it? Did they instigate congressional hearings? No. Did the initiate Disclosure? Nope. The whole issue was a complete failure. It's been over ten years and all we have to show for it are some old DVDs and Ed Komorek making a fool of himself. Greer blames 9/11 and says that stole his thunder (The Press Conference was in May of 2001). Nevertheless, that is now old news. Since then the high point has been Mothra.

My personal opinion from the beginning of the Disclosure Project, like a lot of folk I'm sure, was that if Team Greer had left off some of the less convincing speakers it might have lead somewhere Congressionally.

I've since seen other commentary to that effect. Some have suggested that the project was purposely sabotaged with the likes of Clifford Stone. Maybe.

I'm more of the mind that sabotage of that kind doesn't make a lot of sense and that Greer is fairly naive in some ways--he's a true believer--and in other ways he's taking advantage of and enjoying the ufo guru lifestyle.

Then again, I might be giving him too much credit...he might not be naive in the slightest.

"schyler?" and "the gut" right on as usual guys, I hadn't considerd all those points, and as you said i do find Stone to be credable and his account to definatley be the most interesting. But hey i'm desperate at this point i'll take anything, so if any of them ever have anything more to say, i'll still listen in, with harsh ears, but I will listen.

Love, Light, and all that crap....

reply to post by blazingdefiance
New around here, Blaze? Well, welcome aboard! I'm sure you will make some awesome contributions.

No, you mistake me in regards Clifford Stone. He seems like a nice, mild mannered guy, but to paraphrase the dawg, Clifford is bat guano loopy. Not to be believed or trusted in my book. Easy to see through. Wouldn't know an alien from a moth if'n you catch my drift.

Much like Greer, but not as mercenary. Hope that helps. See you around.

Originally posted by AboveBoard

One person's "hotel lights" (which would require the island to magically bend around at about a 60 degree+/- angle to be in the picture, as well as stretch in length, to make that happen, along with...*sigh* not worth it.) are another persons "orbs."

Why would it be required to magically bend the landscape for the hotels to be in the photo?

You are simply taking Fah's word that the "orbs" can't be the hotels because they are in the western portion of the sky and the hotels are located in a southern direction.

Here are Fah's attempts to convince us that the "orbs" we see in the photo are in a westerly direction -

I have a picture of multicolored orbs lining up the whole sky,

The picture was fairly obviously taken on a western axis with the gulf in the background.

The hotels are to the south as can easily be seen on google. The camera was aimed west.

In the actual orb photo, you can see the islands just off the beach to the west as well as the mangrove,
NEITHER of these appear in the Hotel shot which was aimed SOUTH.

An NO, there is no way the hotel lights were the orbs.
Wrong direction.

Here is Fah’s description of the photo which he made on another forum in April, 2011.

And about the UFO sightings over Japan!

By sheer coincidnce, I was with Stephen Greer on one of his CSETI traning events (my first such event ever) the week the Japan quake struck.

Wednesday night was an amazing one. I have an amazing picture with orbs invisible to the naked eye covering the whole southern part of the sky. They were ET's and UFO's invited by Greers group to come there.

source

So clearly Fah knew all along that the “orbs” were to the south, exactly where the hotels are situated.

Hey torsion,

The stars say the photo is directed at the southwest. The line of sight according to the stars, the location provided on the google map url, and the confirmation of this position in the photo (clumps of vegetation) are what I'm basing my response on. For the hotels to simply be in the background and picked up by an overworked camera, they would have to be in the line of sight - from everything I can see, they are not. That's all I'm saying.

Sirius is the bright star in the middle-right of the photo. The SkyView app showed it being located directly southwest on March 10, 2011, from Naples, FL, which is North of Marco but on the water, so you could even shift things a bit more to the North from what is seen on the app at Naples. A couple of stars from Orion are at the far right of the photo, and I looked at the left hand side - nothing was out of place or showing any other stars than what should be there.

I appreciate the theory of the hotel lights - mundane explanations should be the first things that are looked at!
I just can't get it to fit with the facts as I see them. I'm not here to defend fah or Greer or anyone and if I'm wrong I don't have a problem admitting it because the truth is more important than I am.

I guess I don't see Greer in terms of black and white - hoaxer or hero, all bad or all good. These dichotomies are not really useful to me, but the information and clues for a given photo, artifact, situation, etc. - now looking at that with fresh eyes and both a critical and open mind - well, that's exciting!! I've enjoyed it. And again, I appreciate your contribution to this discussion very much - I always appreciate people who make me think and look closely at things!

in peace and humilty,
AB

reply to post by schuyler

I am not super familiar with Greer's work so pretty impartial to the subject. I have heard him speak on a video or two concerning the Disclosure project and apart from his message and work being fairly positive I can't see why because somebody accepts money or they need funding to do the these off the grid projects such as he is doing that they are charlatans?

Didn't he gave up a teeming medical career (I believe this is verifiable) to disclose aliens, ufos and free energy? He would have to come up with a new career now that he came out about his experiences and can no longer be a doctor? How does he support his family? It only makes sense to turn your passion into a business. Not all that bad in my eyes.

A good thing for the op or any other heavy Greer skeptic would be to go to one of these workshops and then present your diatribe about how false he is - I would be more apt to listen if you've met him or gone through a workshop and said it was BS. Most of the arguments presented against him are pure conjecture - that he takes money for his retreats and teachings(which is his primary occupation now) and that he has filmed a couple of moths falsely, or mistakenly?, claiming them to be light beings - still, these items seem innocuous and really just a drop in the bucket to all of the positive ideas and goodwill that he is sharing.

Originally posted by AboveBoard
Hey torsion,

The stars say the photo is directed at the southwest.

Hi Above,

Fah says it's directed to the west (at least in this forum), and where is the image of the stars that match the alleged stars in Fah's photo?

The fact that the hotel lights are visible in the photo and Fah admitted it depicts the southern sky (before changing it to the west) seems to have brought the orbs/hotels argument to a close.

The photo is useful only in the fact that it is another addition to the CSETI/Greer fraud picture book!

cheers