The Problem with Greer

The Greer Opinion Scale
Please read with your sense of humor intact…

0 = “Stephen who? What? Whatever. I’m going back to that other thread…”
1 = “Greer is BAAAAAAD! He is a conman snakey snake-oil salesman, morally corrupt, lying (fill in favorite expletive or diagnosis here)! I will fling whatever invectives I can at him, with as much sarcasm and mockery as possible!!!”
2 = “I don’t like Greer and here is what I will present as the logical, researched outline of WHY I don’t like him. And first-hand personal experiences of Greer-lovers don't count as scientific. Yep. In conclusion, I don't like him.”
3 = “I don’t know what to think. I appreciate his early contributions but am confused and disappointed at what I currently see.”
4 = “I have had a positive personal experience with Greer and, while I have some skepticism regarding his claims, I think there is something there. The intensity of my experience has done much to raise my opinion of him, as well as his contributions, and here is the reason WHY…”
5 = Steven Greer is AWESOME!!!! He is a hero and will single handedly save the entire world!!!! GO GREER!!

There are, of course, people who fit between categories. For myself, I’m a 3.5 –4 depending on the day. That is based on my personal experience.

The folks in 1-2 are naturally going to be rolling their eyes and groaning in the general direction of anyone in the 4-5 category. AND the folks in 4-5 are going to be extremely offended and put-off by the attacks of the 1-2 crowd.

The thing about it is that an individual’s experience in category 4 and 5 can seem really unscientific and “woo-woo” to people who have not had those experiences and who were not there. A lot of what Dr. Greer does is in the ‘spiritual’ and ‘subjective reality’ of ‘high strangeness events.’ Because of that, it makes it extremely hard for those who have had amazing “woo-woo” oriented experiences to even converse with people who are in the categories of “I am a serious science-based researcher” or “woo-woo = psychosis” or “spiritual is irrelevant” or “high strangeness = bad” or simply “Greer = bad therefore your woo-woo is irrelevant!”

And so the discussion isn't really a discussion, but at least we are trying to hash some of it out, no? There are valid points of view throughout, from individuals in ALL the categories of The Greer Opinion Scale. At least I think so, for whatever that's worth. lol!

In the end, one thing is certain. Steven Greer generates a great deal of attention and emotion, both positive and negative, hateful and heroic. He will continue to be a lightening rod for both kinds of attention until he either:

1) makes good on his claims in such an obvious way that even people who don't like him can admit it OR
2) fails in such a monumentally public and humiliating way that even those who are in the 5 category get bumped down at least to a 3.

Time will continue to test, and time will continue to tell…

Peace,
AB

reply to post by AboveBoard


Well logically you look for other info on him -- I found his "other" interview which is readily dismissed in the youtube comments. Seriously he contradicts himself, he's overly vague -- his claim is ridiculous.

Consider this:

J-rod = A-rab. With a "long" pronunciation of "A." Arab as E.T. just as previously Asians = e.t.s

I find the whole racist E.T. subconscious religious zealot of the 1950s military engineering mentality in the desert of the Southwest to be not just limited to this "old man." haha.



His interview was part of the Bill Moore CIA disinformation project.

reply to post by Thaxter
Personally, I don't see Fah0436's experience as relevant to your argument. Rather, it appears you are using that member's account as a platform to avoid addressing the overwhelming evidence against Greer.

I'm assuming you've missed the examples of him promoting fake alien bodies? Overlooked the fake alien images? Missed out on the free energy device he had over ten years ago? No doubt the paradox of Mr Disclosure requiring his customers to sign non-disclosure agreements escapes you too? Have you wondered why he has no support from fellow researchers? No articles in MUFON?

In 6 months, when the movie doesn't appear and neither does any *proof* of his aliens, will you still be defending him? Did you know he's scheduled to appear at the UFOCON in 2013? Now surely, if you're sincere, it begs the question of *why* a man on the verge of changing humanity's understanding of life in the universe hasn't cleared his diary?

I completely reserve judgment on Greer, for there are incongrous elements to his work.

People make assumptions, and may have strongly held opinions, but that is all they are.

He has that famous moth picture. But also on the other hand, put together the disclosure project. Which may be really positive or it may be a cia operation to determine who your leaks are, and have them all in one place.

He goes out of his way to discredit himself, and at times makes ufology look bad. Is this counter intelligence designed to make it into a comedy show, or is it by force, that he got a heavy duty slap on the wrist and threats, and so he is doing it all in the laughable shoddy way that is the only way the templars, masons and ptb release truth, always by the fools, charlatans and kjb angents so people will run for the hills. And yet they believe they have satisfied free will and their checkerboard floor, white squares and dark squares. Its called cheating however.

His free energy project costs enormous funds, and just goes on forever, like a few on the channels on youtube. It may have started out of a geniune wish to free the world and then was hijacked via threats, or, it may have always been intended that way.

But free energy exists and it doesnt take millions of dollars. Its do it yourself projects, and what it actually takes is open sourcing the information and putting together videos and instructions free on youtube, not dvd's for sale, that show everyone how to build, and even alternative builds out of recycled things. That is the right thing to do. Not figure out how to create a patented item for industry and hope they will sell it and not buy the patent and bury it.

Many have died creating these things.

On the other hand, he does give out some things, people had experiences in his groups.

He's put some video's out that I recognized the energy in.

Very very unusual, but to me he is either cia on mission, or due to his past ties, he can't break free and is forced into survival mode and has to play the truth, distorted behind the fool door, to satisfy their belief this is equal squares white and dark and if we don't pay attention then we are giving permission for their depopulation, takeover, or whatever they want to do.

They do play the white and dark squares, they do believe this is a school.

I've learnt how to sail in to the locked doors, grab the info I need, and run.

By the way, if he's being forced to play the fool and only let truth out, with alot of compromises, then I have to say, its all our fault for not forcing the disclosure and not standing up to those who we hire basically, and watchdogging the system.

Because, the universe is tired of all the martyrs.

reply to post by AboveBoard

“Greer is BAAAAAAD! He is a conman snakey snake-oil salesman, morally corrupt, lying; “I don’t like Greer And first-hand personal experiences of Greer-lovers don't count as scientific. yet “I don’t know what to think. I appreciate his early contributions yet “I have had a positive personal experience with Greer and...

...that would be a crude rewrite to position myself.

reply to post by Kandinsky

...Did you know he's scheduled to appear at the UFOCON in 2013?
Now surely, if you're sincere, it begs the question of *why* a man on
the verge of changing humanity's understanding of life in the universe
hasn't cleared his diary?

If true, then there's proof.


Edit: That's a great 'heads-up' -by the way, if he was going to be
the salvation of the planet and reveal this free-energy machine,
he wouldn't be preparing his UFOCON lectures and ordering
his favourite bottled-water.
Well done Kandinsky.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Dear Kandansky,

I have mixed feelings about Greer. Like everyone else, I reveled in the initial Disclosure Project and was in awe of the presentations by ex-military witnesses. I also admired Greer for pulling this together and producing it.

I had the pleasure of meeting Greer at a Disclosure Project town hall meeting he gave in the early 2000s. I think the cost was $10, which is reasonable, given the size of the hall and the fact that all events there have some kind of nominal ticket price. He struck me as sincere, committed, energetic, and really passionate about getting out the word. He spoke at length, patiently took numerous questions, and I did not feel "ripped off."

Over the years I have kept up with him less frequently, and I am aware of his failing to deliver on the free energy technology promises he has made. I know he has raised well over $250K for another movie he plans to release. I applaud his efforts while acknowledging his failures and shortcoming. We are all of us are human and fail frequently. Also, he promises a better future, which again appeals to most of us (except the really quite sinister disinfo agents here on this thread, who loudly deny even the personal first-hand accounts of others, and attempt to mock and demean them in the hypnotic second person voice).

Having never gone on one his expeditions into the wild to call out ETs, I cannot speak for the experience as the earlier poster on this thread has done. As for his money making and appeals for funding, you really do need money to produce films and reach people, and I absolutely have no problem with people soliciting money for their projects if it's a project I believe in. Even Kerrie Cassidy has had to ask for support through subscriptions. Alex Jones stays afloat by constant appeals to his listeners to buy his products. This is just SOP. Other than attending his day seminar and buying one of his books, I have never given money to Greer and I am not a kneejerk Greer cheerleader.

Greer has done more for disclosure than perhaps any other single human being and has worked tirelessly for a decade to bring to the fore not only public disclosure but the real eventuality of a Blue Beam false flag event. I tend to agree with his premise that if ETs were really evil, we would have been toast long ago. I think a balanced approach to alien intelligence would be to postulate that there are good ETs and bad ETS, just as on earth there are good and evil people, and I don't fault him for finding alien intelligence inherently benign.

He has sent into the field hundreds of people who have been trained to connect with alien intelligence, who are training others. These are earth ambassadors of good will. Is it any wonder that the PTB would find this threatening? As they would equally find threatening the prospect of free energy and peace on earth? I have never heard Greer advocate for anything other than these goals. He is a *spokesperson* more than a researcher, and his public persona is one of a development manager who rallies forces, enlists support, and raises money, just as do large development departmental leaders of all nonprofit organizations worldwide. If he is an egoist and loves to talk, this is all the better for the goal of making money. That is his job! Just as the Veritas Show or Red Ice Radio relies on subscriptions, Greer relies on direct appeals.

I also admire the fact that he advocates for transcendental meditation. The folks I know who practice TM are generally much more committed, successful, balanced, and driven than those who don't meditate. This is my own personal experience, having never practiced TM myself but having known a few who do, including one very successful indie record producer who has been in the thick of dysfunctional musician dynamics his whole life while remaining more or less personally untouched by all the drama.

So, my hat is off to Greer. In spite of his public failures, he has had great public successes and he refuses to give up! The SHEER VOLUME of mindless vitriol on this thread as well as the ignorant personal attacks on his character prove to me that Greer is on to something real and big. The truth CAN be threatening. I'm all for people pressing onward in the face of ridicule and public attacks. The greater the level of public attack, the greater the perceived threat.

For those who are interested, here is Greer recently on the current threat of false flag events.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Thaxter

So, my hat is off to Greer. In spite of his public failures, he has had great public successes and he refuses to give up! The SHEER VOLUME of mindless vitriol on this thread as well as the ignorant personal attacks on his character prove to me that Greer is on to something real and big.

A long jump to a conclusion. I suggest it has to do with the quality and character of the opposers, nothing less. These unabashed bastions of zealot-like disdain - swatting these monstrous mosquitoes seems to be the most immediate remedy at hand, draining the swamp from within which they flourish is the only way to solve this problem permanently.

Most of them are "legend worshipers" who live to die at the forefeet of the Schuyler Dog. Without realizing they are swarming at the wrong end.

reply to post by Thaxter

I think you're the one who is being primed and pumped by your unwavering conviction that what this person experienced could not be genuine, even in the face of repeated, rational, convincing explanations on his/her part that what occurred that night, which was experienced in the third dimension, alone on a beach, far away from anyone or any equipment, was real.

Dru did not call the person who shared the experience a liar. She questioned his interpretation of his experience.

Your repeated denials, written in the hypnotic second person, convince me that you are the real charlatan, here to deliberately mislead and misinform people. I am much more inclined to believe a sincere and simple first-hand account of an encounter with alien beings and/or technology that a debunker who speaks "authoritatively" in the second person and whose rigid, unbending sociopathic "I refuse to hear you" demeanor is meant to debase and belittle a perfectly harmless internet poster who is attempting to share his/her experience on the beach that night.

Dru used the "hypnotic second person" because she was addressing someone. That is the correct use of the second person, is it not? How you jump from correct grammar to an accusation of sociopathy says more about you than her.

Personally I think you are the sociopathic liar here, not Greer, and certainly not this unlucky person who has to endure your patronizing, repeated, shut-mind-and-blocked-ears, really insulting denial of his/her personal experience, and thus, this person's humanity. You don't even know this person, and you were NOT there!

Greer is a sociopathic liar. This thread has provided excellent documentation to support this claim. Your personal abuse is completely uncalled for.

So, please spare us your mean spirited trolling and ignorance, and please take your hypnotic roadshow elsewhere.

It is obvious who is mean spirited here.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Also, just to be absolutely clear, I was not using Fah0436's experience to defend Greer per se, but to rebuke the public shaming and ridicule heaped upon Fah0436's experience by a certain disinfo agent on this board who refused to recognize Fah0436's first-hand account as valid. I would be incensed if someone had the gall to speak to me that way in real life: "You were only dreaming. You were the victim of an elaborate hoax. You are still living an illusion. Your experience was not real, you only imagined it." Etc., etc., without ever actually listening or acknowledging the experience as valid. It is the height of inhumanity to shut out another's story, another's humanity.

I'd want to slug any invertebrate who said that to my face. I know Fah0436 is perfectly capable of defending himself, but I did want to call out the sinister mind control attempt foisted upon that account in a very dirty-handed way. To me, it is the perfect example of how ATS is trolled regularly by disinfo agents whose only mission in life is to attempt to ridicule anything extraordinary, spiritual or supernatural and, more sinisterly, by doing so, to demean humanity's exploration itself into realms of the possible, the better, the eventual reality that we are all striving to realize.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by CiAlice

Cool! I was wondering - you have tricky posts, hard to pin down the opinion!! lol!
Thanks for noticing my post - I was afraid I'd totally offend everyone with my lighthearted sorting of the matter at hand. Glad to see you took it as intended.

peace,
AB

reply to post by DJW001


"Dru used the "hypnotic second person" because she was addressing someone. That is the correct use of the second person, is it not? How you jump from correct grammar to an accusation of sociopathy says more about you than her."

You are only imagining that Dru said that. This is actually an elaborate hoax by Dru, and you have fallen for it. You were the victim of a clever staging on the part of Dru, who actually had the power to make you believe that what Dru said was real. You are refusing to believe that what Dru said is actually untrue, because you are just believing what you want to believe.

You are deceived. You have been ripped off. You are not heard. You are not even human. Your experience is ludicrous.

Is this the correct use of the second person to which you refer?

reply to post by Thaxter
Dear Thixster,

I appreciate your lengthy reply and the time you took to compose it. However, you still seem to have overlooked the evidence that Greer is a fraudster and has been generating a decent income from promises that have 100% failed to be fulfilled.

I'm a little naive at times, but you seem to be suggesting that the mistakes and hoaxes he's tied to make him more credible? Is there an equation that supports this view? If I tell X amount of lies and compound them with Y amount of unfulfilled claims does Z equal >> Credibility?

reply to post by CiAlice


Thanks -- appreciate your points. You seem to have more experience in the long history of Trolling Goths who pursue Greer across the internet (LOL). I do not normally follow Greer, was only struck by the volume of personal vitriol expressed toward him here.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Dear Kandinsky,

I was not ripped off by Greer, but on the contrary, I got something valuable from his lecture. I do not believe all the witnesses he assembled and recorded are frauds. Do you? I got something valuable from his book, which was worth the money I invested. If he makes claims or promises that sometimes fail to come true, what of it? He is doing good work. He is promoting world peace and seems to truly believe that alien contact will deliver us from the bondage of paying for energy at ludicrous prices. Is this a bad agenda? If there are legions of people who feel ripped off from Greer, fine, but I am not one of them. I enjoy his lectures, I enjoy his point of view, and I take his predictions of future free energy with a grain of salt, knowing that most of these devices are routinely suppressed and never see the light of day (see the other headline post on ATS today about this).

In fact, the REAL fraudsters are the big oil companies, the deregulated "energy market" that fleeces people for the simple human comforts of staying warm and working by light. My energy company, my "smart meter," has imposed steep increases in rates just to live a decent, modest life. This is the real fraud, as they are FORCING me to pay them for the "privilege" of staying warm, heating my food, and working by lamp light. Greer is absolutely right that this should in fact be free, and thus, he is not the fraud, as he is not forcing me to pay him nor is he shutting off my electricity if I fail to pay him, as would my power company. So, I think it's clear who and what are the real frauds here.

Originally posted by AboveBoard
reply to post by CiAlice

 

Cool! I was wondering - you have tricky posts, hard to pin down the opinion!! lol!

My motto, "Live in the mystery and STFU about it". lol

Originally posted by AboveBoard
Thanks for noticing my post - I was afraid I'd totally offend everyone with my lighthearted sorting of the matter at hand. Glad to see you took it as intended.

The anti-Greer faction in their passionate attempts trample each other over Greer's verbal demise - they will suck the soul of fun out of you if you let them.

Originally posted by Thaxter
reply to post by Druscilla

 

I think you're the one who is being primed and pumped by your unwavering conviction that what this person experienced could not be genuine, even in the face of repeated, rational, convincing explanations on his/her part that what occurred that night, which was experienced in the third dimension, alone on a beach, far away from anyone or any equipment, was real.

Your repeated denials, written in the hypnotic second person, convince me that you are the real charlatan, here to deliberately mislead and misinform people. I am much more inclined to believe a sincere and simple first-hand account of an encounter with alien beings and/or technology that a debunker who speaks "authoritatively" in the second person and whose rigid, unbending sociopathic "I refuse to hear you" demeanor is meant to debase and belittle a perfectly harmless internet poster who is attempting to share his/her experience on the beach that night.

Personally I think you are the sociopathic liar here, not Greer, and certainly not this unlucky person who has to endure your patronizing, repeated, shut-mind-and-blocked-ears, really insulting denial of his/her personal experience, and thus, this person's humanity. You don't even know this person, and you were NOT there!

So, please spare us your mean spirited trolling and ignorance, and please take your hypnotic roadshow elsewhere.

Hostile much?

I suggest you do some study work.
Here's an excellent paper you can look at regarding susceptibility to influence through social modeling.
A social-cognitive skills approach to the successful modification of hypnotic susceptibility

You may also want to take a look at how oxytocin effects a person's level of trust:
Oxytocin increases trust levels ...

Further, you might want to consider that Dr. Greer is indeed a doctor, and might just know a thing or two regarding these very simple hints of methods for controlling people I've linked above.

I wonder, on these CSETI excursions at any point during the excursion, especially early in the excursion is there a time where everyone drinks the same thing? Gets water, or some other drink out of a cooler? Has access to 'free' drink refreshments tossed in as part of the excursion?

Liberal doses of oxytocin would go quite far in gaining a groups trust, as well as adding to their susceptibility to influence, and control.

Then again, Dr. Greer isn't a medical doctor that has access to drugs like oxtocin, or drug reps that give out free samples of the stuff, or anything like that at all is he?
Oops, he IS a medical doctor?
hmmm.

People have done more for less.
There are of course other ways to control people through suggestion, through neurolingusitic programming, and many other methods.
The more willing and open to suggestion a person is, especially if a person has a preconceived preexisting bias in favor for the suggestibility and manipulation on offer, the easier it is to control and influence them.

Any business worth calling itself a business is always looking for ways to control its clients for ensured and continued business dealings that will equate into continued revenue streams.

Then again, you're an expert on Applied Psychology as it pertains to influence and cognitive/behavioral modification of subjects in social situations, so, who am I to argue with you?
Oh, wait, you don't have have a degree, concentration, or experience in applied psychology?
hmmm.

reply to post by Druscilla

You may also want to take a look at how oxytocin effects a person's level of trust:
Oxytocin increases trust levels ... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I bow to the historic knowledge of Goths and "pharmacology".

Join arms with Catwomen everywhere and unite.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by CiAlice


Oh, of course ... there just isn't any evidence or precedent in the historical record for cults resorting to any sort of pharmacological use ... *cough" Jim Jones *cough* Heaven's Gate *cough*

Nope, none at all.