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Originally posted by cetaphobic

Calling someone a shill doesn't make them go away.
Calling someone a shill doesn't make you right.
Calling someone a shill doesn't make them a shill.

You have absolutely no clue who is and is not a shill, so why don't you calm down, do your research, and stop calling people names at all?

This is actually one of the most direct, concise explanations I've seen and I wanted to point it out. Great way to summarize it!

When someone's opinion is different from your own, it doesn't automatically mean they are paid to have that opinion any more than you being paid to have yours. A discussion offering proof (credible proof) of your position does much, much more for your argument than name calling ever will.

I've been on this site for 3 months now (yes, really, only 3 months) , granted, I don't know everything there is to know about it but I survived my "trial by fire" and it was definitely an "experience". Not everyone that comes along is a returning member or someone paid to be here or anything of that nature. Some of them are actually new members (like I was) and don't need to be treated the way that some members treat them. I was called every name in the book and attacked from all sides just because I happened to know how to use a message board (in general) and had the "nerve" to speak up and offer opposing views to people who felt that they owned the place due to being here for an extended period of time.

Yes, you do become very defensive and it's hard to "trust" that some people just happened to show up here and have never been here before and actually know how to use a message board well enough to jump right in, but those people do exist and they happen along every single day. Don't be so quick to discount each and every person that comes along, you may be guilty of "assasinating" an innocent person who just happens to have a brain and is joining the site.

If not for being downright stubborn, I wouldn't be here right now because I would have said "forget this" and just abandoned it. But now, I'm on the same standing as those people who tried their best to "beat me down and run me off". I still know who the worst ones are and I have no respect for them as a result. Who did they really damage in what they did? I'm a stronger, better member now and they are still full of hatred and complaining about everything they can complain about.

I won. ATS won. I have a lot to offer and have made some great contributions. I was runner up in our very enjoyable "regent election", I started the avatar thread where people can come and describe what they want and we make it for them. I've given input based on actual science and as an education professional. Be careful who you attack, it may be someone who will make some great contributions after they "learn the ropes". Not every single person that comes along with a new account is a disinformation agent and even the new people, ESPECIALLY the new people, deserve a little respect....

When their very first post is removed due to obvious violations, that's a different story and I understand that, but the "hot topics" are the ones that are going to attract the new members so not every new person that posts in them is some sort of trouble maker. I do think ALL new member posts should be limited to the Freshman forum for a given number of posts as well as a give number of days and that would prevent the "trial by fire" that I endured. ...but it may also prevent them from becoming a stronger member as a result, so it's a toss up there.

If those of us who are already members set a better example and are able to control how we treat the newer people, the newer people are going to fall into the pattern. People learn more from experience than they do by reading a set of rules and if those rules are demonstrated every day by the people who are members here, the new people will learn them and abide by them much more quickly. The environment WE create is the environment that will persist. Create a better one with your own actions and the rest will fall into place. I was attacked, so I attacked back. If I had been welcomed and treated with dignity and respect, I would have done the same in return.

WE set the tone here. If you want a better tone, then YOU need to set it .... the mods are there to enforce the T&S, not to hold our hands and watch every move we make. (see, I really am learning Seagull )

reply to post by seagull


Well, that is kind of my point in my response to what "DeeKlassified" had said about passionate protection of the OS as being "very suspicious".

I wouldn't want to be called a shill in an ad hominem attack, and I wouldn't initiate an ad hominem attack on another member by calling them a profiteering quack conspiracy peddler, either (at least not without solid evidence).

I'm just pointing out that person who passionate defends the OS is NOT automatically a shill, just like a person who appears to be passionate in his DISbelief of the OS is not automatically someone who is doing so just to sell more conspiracy literature.

reply to post by davidmann


You may, of course, feel free to call them "plug ins", and the result of that will be unfortunate. Can't say you weren't advised not to.

What is the problem with asking people to be polite when discussing an issue? You don't agree with someone? Fine. No one says you have to agree with the "official story", or with any of the myriad other Conspiracies of the Day... But we're requiring that you do it with a modicum of tact. ...and it will be enforced. Don't like it? Too bad.

reply to post by plube


Seriously?

What part of expecting people, on whatever "side", to be polite to each other are you having such trouble understanding?

"Shill" is but one example of what has driven us to this extreme stance. "truther" is another. Any, and we mean ANY term that is used in a derogatory fashion towards each other in a thread will be actioned. That action will result in an automatic account termination.

It's really very simple. ...and no amount of feigned outrage will change that. You know damned well what we mean. Your feigned moral outrage is just that...a facade.

All of you have been warned. More than once in this thread.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Passion is great. That's what we want. It makes for wonderful conversation/debate. ...but it will be done in a civil manner. That's the only point this entire thread has been about.

The civility will be enforced until such time as the would be disruptees figure out that game time is over.

reply to post by seagull


Correct.

Passionate defense of the OS does not make one a shill, nor, as "DeeKlassified" asserted, should be seen as "very suspicious". People can have a strong belief in something without being a government shill OR without being a profiteering peddler of conspiracy literature.

It just means you have a strong personal belief.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


You got it.

Passionate posting can be done without resorting to attacks against fellow members.

If I can do it, anyone can. I have a vicious temper, and don't suffer fools gladly, yet I, usually anyway, can maintain my decorum. If I find myself wanting to strangle through the screen, I walk away. Or find another topic to talk about.

In reality has anyone EVER been able to PROVE that another person was PaID to post on a particular side of a topic?

Originally posted by plube
but according to ats Shills are to be accepted

And thus the fall into self-indulgent obtuse questions/statements have degraded this announcement into pure madness.

No such indication has ever been made that those posting with a one-sided agenda -- any agenda -- are welcome on ATS.



The thread is now closed. Move on to other subjects. The 9/11 Conspiracies forum will be reopened when the changes have been properly tested.