Man Shown Aborted Children In Heaven

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

furthermore death, disease, sickness and malfunctions of the human body are a secondary consequence of the fall of man from Genesis 3.

Hmmm, so God should be accused of negligent homicide every time a baby miscarries according to you. Your God must hate us humans. Is his name Satan?

You're just trolling at this point.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel

Is an abortion anything less than a sacrifice to the "god of convenience" or more accurately: "I'm the God I worship, as in I only choose things that are convenient for me." Not many people like this perspective.

Especially the girl that is carrying her fathers incestuous baby, or the woman who was raped and is now pregnant. Yep, total matter of convenience for them.

Double post

Triple post-sorry about that

reply to post by NOTurTypical


How am I trolling. Everything I said was legitimate. In a court of law God would be charged with negligent homicide.

Your God sounds evil to me

Originally posted by coyotepoet

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by coyotepoet

 

Now fetus souls can choose to be aborted or miscarried?

Do they posses their mothers in order to make this happen?

edit on 1-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Seriously? That's as ignorant a comment as the God crying up in heaven over dead babies people. Believe it or not you chose the life you incarnated into as does everyone. The soul doesn't have to "possess" the mother, it just chooses to incarnate into the mother who this will happen to. We all choose our circumstances before we incarnate no possession necessary.

coyotepoet is absolutely correct...

Everything he has written, is exactly as it is...

*bows*

akushla

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Was he shown the hundreds of thousands of babies who, over the thousands of years, were tossed into lakes and rivers, or buried alive, because the families had no access to abortion at that time in history, and couldn't afford another mouth to feed? Or was God just showing him recent terminations?

If this guy thinks that God showed him aborted fetuses, then who am I to say he didn't? However, the fact that God ignores war, cruelty, torture, theft, and corruption at the highest levels of government surprises me.

In the locum in which this takes place, the earthly timeframes you refer to, do not apply...some of those 'thousand babies over thousands of years' could be in your circle of experience...some of those 'thousands of babies over thousands of years' have not had the need to re-in-carnate...become encased in a carnal vehicle, again...the ones that were shown were those inbetween the state of incarnation and/or ascension to lessons at a far less mundane level than the one we are in...

God 'ignores' nothing...calling this a fact is a comment based on a complete misunderstanding of Gods' role in the whole shebang...and an abrogation of responsibility for what occurs in your 'line of sight'...

Akushla

Originally posted by digginforthetruth
how could they be in heaven if they had not been able to accecpt christ in their life yet.

Free Will exists in all locums...

Akushla

Originally posted by RealSpoke
If God hates abortion why did he create the physical possibility of miscarriages?

Free Will...

Akushla

Makes one wonder when life begins, especially as another ATS member once had a thread about clips in which a Jewish man saw all his "wasted seed" as kids in heaven.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

However, if all aborted fetuses go straight to heaven, and somehow bypass original sin, then wouldn't that be an advantage, form a religious point of view?

Wouldn't one then encourage the heathen who won't convert to at least abort, or fund abortions in heathen countries, and thus assure the unborn fetus goes to heaven instead of becoming another heathen and going to hell?

So we should rather feel bad about the born, because they might go to hell; rather than the unborn, because their place in heaven is secure?

Just wondering about some of the logic.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

How am I trolling. Everything I said was legitimate. In a court of law God would be charged with negligent homicide.

Your God sounds evil to me

edit on 2-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

On what precedent or law? What governing body is above God? Everything you said was not legitimate, if you continue to want to straw man and employ red herrings after it being brought to your attention once already then what else am I to assume you're left with other than attempting to troll?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Under common sense law. I mean if you want to join the anti-human agenda and make excuses for non-human entities to take human lives by negligence with no consequence then go ahead.

Get an digressive pit bull, let it roam around a baby, let it kill the baby and then God won't care according to your logic.

Originally posted by halfoldman
Makes one wonder when life begins, especially as another ATS member once had a thread about clips in which a Jewish man saw all his "wasted seed" as kids in heaven.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

However, if all aborted fetuses go straight to heaven, and somehow bypass original sin, then wouldn't that be an advantage, form a religious point of view?

Wouldn't one then encourage the heathen who won't convert to at least abort, or fund abortions in heathen countries, and thus assure the unborn fetus goes to heaven instead of becoming another heathen and going to hell?

Just wondering about some of the logic.

The grand assumption is that the locum referred to as heaven is a final destination for all...and this carnal experience, a one-off deal...
Original sin (or choice) locked the soul into an experience that required certain conditions for it to understand the nature of its essence...those conditions include the necessity to in-carnate to understand...and just as, if you do not learn in a complete way, what you must learn to advance to the next level in a school situation...you must return the next year to complete the understanding...in the schoolroom situation, or similar...or, if choose, you can leave school and 'work'...all the while excercising the Free Will that all entities have...heathens, believers alike...

A loving God does not create 'hell'...however, we all love our own, and others' 'horror movies'...

Akushla

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Under common sense law. I mean if you want to join the anti-human agenda and make excuses for non-human entities to take human lives by negligence with no consequence then go ahead.

Get an digressive pit bull, let it roam around a baby, let it kill the baby and then God won't care according to your logic.

Point being...who lets the pit bull go to roam?

Akushla

reply to post by coyotepoet


Wow! What a cool clip. That is amazing. I recall various stories like this over the years. Boncho and Realspoke, the resident one line wonders, first on a thread to debunk everything, trol.. er.. pseudo intellectuals, never offer anything of value to a thread. I'm not saying I do, but they sure have a way of trying to kill threads that are interesting.

C'mon. Do you REALLY think this 5 year old was faking it? Trololol to you if you do.

OP, I have no opinion on abortion either way. In a free world we shall all have choices. I would take a poll though of 1000 women who have had them. 5,10,15 years later and ask them.....do you have any regrets? Would you do it again?

An honest look into this would be interesting.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
If I say I saw an Alien I'm called a nutjob yet this joker claims to see babies in heaven and people listen to him???

Whatever are you talking about??? You cant be refering to the ATS general.

If you believe in UFOs here, you are welcomed. If you say "God" anything.... You are bashed and sent on your way.


Facts here buddy... UFOs are more acceptable to the human race then God or Diety.

never quite understood that one... lil green men and all...

Wonder what would happen if the lil green men came down and said... "God is not happy with you... You've been lieing about him all these years and he's pretty upset... btw.. There is no rapture in the way you believe. The chosen have been raptured from the grave. You never even noticed because you were not the ones we came for.. but we just thought we'd at least stop and say you were wrong before we leave with our chosen". The ones that were alive and chosen, were taken as well, but they were so very few. Sorry.. Shoulda listened and stop forcing away the hand that continually tried to feed and care for you. We didnt lie on you, why would you lie on us?" Now you're here without God, to do for yourselves. Now you truely will understand just how much God provided for you. He will no longer hold back vengiance, death, destruction, and you will all get to see and live along side the reason for your torment.. Your tormentor and lier...

Have a nice time! Thanks for all the fish!

reply to post by akushla99

Thanks for that view.

I'm just trying to also understand it from the dogma of Christianity, although there are many views.

I personally don't think fetuses are kids or independent lifeforms, so they don't go anywhere.
I find abortion very distasteful, and I'd hope people could make other choices, and at a certain stage the fetus does resemble a child - I can't say medically when (don't know), but I can't say it's a "child" from conception.
In many tribal cultures infant mortality is high, and even infants only become "persons" after a naming ceremony when they have survived for a few days or even months.

According to strict Christian theology mankind fell under the curse of original sin with Adam and Eve, and that's our condition until accepting salvation.
I don't see where it says there are any exceptions to the confines of that theology.
The baptism of infants is still believed to secure salvation in some denominations.

However, if one assumes that an unborn fetus is a person, then that "person" is fully worthy of judgement.
So its confusing to me to say fetuses are persons that can be murdered, but they are non-persons as far as judgement goes.

If fetuses are persons guaranteed of salvation by abortion how could religious people feel bad about abortion?
It's one more person guaranteed for God's kingdom then?

Traditionally it seems the fetus was not yet a person, but a potential person who could go to heaven by baptism and salvation. So one was robbing the church of a body on earth and a soul in heaven.

If one says abortion is a ticket to heaven for an existing body and soul, then surely abortion is a moral good, at least as far as the eternity of the child is concerned.
Being born means a lifetime of sin and a risk of eternal damnation, and thus it appears worse than being aborted.

On the other hand, saying all unbaptized infants, and those aborted (if they are persons) go to hell or limbo is consistent with theology, but it's so horrific to modern ears that few would still espouse that position, although I don't see where official teachings on this have been changed.

Then, if they are persons, and one has a situation where one fetus kills another in the womb, then is that murder with diminished responsibility, but murder nevertheless?
Should that kid be arrested and put on trial after birth?
Just wondering.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

How am I trolling. Everything I said was legitimate. In a court of law God would be charged with negligent homicide.

Your God sounds evil to me

edit on 2-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

He was pretty strait forward. I got it quite clearly. I took it as you trolling as well. Twisting words around to mean something they're not even closely related to.


Man's fall was by man's own doing.

Officer Bill says... Bob! Dont take that plumb.. it's not for you. I dont care what the guy next to you is telling you. If you do it, you're going to jail for 7 thousand years..

Bob - It's not like the buy guy is going to miss just 1. Sides, i'm hungry..

Bill - Then eat from the tree in which you were given. Dad said THAT tree is not for you. There may be a reason, but still... Dad said DONT!

Bob takes a bite and enjoys it so much, he decides to pick 3 more, toss it into his pack for later. Later on, Willy and Tim see's Bob eating on some serious tastey fruit.. They want a bit, but before they do, they see it for what it is..

BOB! What did you do?? You're gonna get it!

- Nah, nothing happened yet. It's all gravy baby.. have a bite. ok.. why not.




Dad comes home from work and sees that his prize tree was robbed... He was so going to use those fruits for something big later.

BOB! TIM! WILLY! - yes paw?

GET OUT OF MY GARDEN NOW! Apparently you're not grown enough to do as I asked.. always going against everything I tell you... as though you would not believe in me and my purpose..... He, that which created you!


same as...

DAD - Jr donot have a party while we're gone this weekend.

Jr - Sure dad... (wink)

DAD - WTH! You had a party!

Jr - Yes Sir... I'm sorry.

DAD - sok son, but so you'll learn, i'm still going to punish you, but in the end, you'll be wiser and all the better for having lived through it. Since you couldnt show me that you were going to be a proper son, you have chores and problems that you have to overcome... Instead of learning my lesson when you had the chance, you will not learn it by building your own garden and you will have to deal with being angry when people trample and steal from it. Lifes lessons.. Those things you need so you can not only understand in the end, but most importantly, to UNDERSTAND why. Before I let you back home, i will show you every lifes lesson, some you will get many you will not. What you understand and take to heart will make or break you in the end.

So.. Just behave and be nice to people around you and all will be ok.


Thats my take.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by akushla99

 

Thanks for that view.

I'm just trying to also understand it from the dogma of Christianity, although there are many views.
I personally don't think fetuses are kids or independent lifeforms, so they don't go anywhere.
I find abortion very distasteful, and I'd hope people could make other choices, and at a certain stage the fetus does resemble a child - I can't say medically when (don't know), but I can't say it's a "child" from conception.
In many tribal cultures infant mortality is high, and even infants only become "persons" after a naming ceremony when they have survived for a few days or even months.
According to strict Christian theology mankind fell under the curse of original sin with Adam and Eve, and that's our condition until accepting salvation.
I don't see where it says there are any exceptions to the confines of that theology.
The baptism of infants is still believed to secure salvation in some denominations.
However, if one assumes that an unborn fetus is a person, then that "person" is fully worthy of judgement.
So its confusing to me to say fetuses are persons that can be murdered, but they are non-persons as far as judgement goes.
If fetuses are persons guaranteed of salvation by abortion how could religious people feel bad about abortion?
It's one more person guaranteed for God's kingdom then?
Traditionally it seems the fetus was not yet a person, but a potential person who could go to heaven by baptism and salvation. So one was robbing the church of a body on earth and a soul in heaven.
If one says abortion is a ticket to heaven for an existing body and soul, then surely abortion is a moral good, at least as far as the eternity of the child is concerned.
Being born means a lifetime of sin and a risk of eternal damnation, and thus it appears worse than being aborted.
On the other hand, saying all unbaptized infants, and those aborted (if they are persons) go to hell or limbo is consistent with theology, but it's so horrific to modern ears that few would still espouse that position, although I don't see where official teachings on this have been changed.

edit on 2-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

You're welcome...I think the word 'dogma' says it all, though...
There are enough treatises (not necessarily of a religious nature) that tie many loose/illogical ends...

If You begin with the concept of a loving god...availing all of his/her creation (remembering that all creation is an emanation of himself/herself) with the One rule/law, which seems to confuse everyone - Free Will...
The whole experience (from a soul POV) runs on the concept of Free Will. It is not so much a rule as a conferred gift from said loving god (implicitly to emanations of himself/herself)...or a curse...the consequences of Free Will are manifest and painful...Free Will, none the less...a tool used for positive or negative results...

This Free Will extends/encapsulates/is entwined in all experience, even the non-carnate...hence the 'horror movies' of evil demons/satan/the devil (insert any evil experience you can think of (with your Free Will!))...

Aborted fetus' is a somewhat simpler (yet more emotionally charged) process, from a 'choice' perspective...as another poster has written...you (as a Free Will-ed emanation of god) choose to incarnate - or not (however this looks like from others' perspective - they are not YOU!...and are not necessarily privvy to your choices - especially from the frame of reference of the box of atomic slime we are incarnated in - patently)...

Salvation...everyone wants someone else to take responsibility for thier soul...non?
No responsibility - no Free Will...that's the equation that is missed...salvation is - through - Free Will...by choice. Choices come with responsibility (so yeah, at some point you will choose to experience what you have 'sown', if you haven't already)...
Mixing the concepts of the carnal vehicle with the soul vehicle is a mistake that leads to unnecessary questions...(the rules apply equally, at all levels)...images of hell or limbo are designed to steer Free Will through coersion (for whatever agenda you can name)...but, remains Free Will, coersion or not...the ideal locum to 'plan' a lesson/s is in the locum where the distraction of a carnal vehicle is not present (one of the reasons for the 'story' of the GoE)...as transitional entities they were offered a choice...the rest is His/Herstory...here we are, in a box of atomic slime (from time to time), unborn/being born/living a short life/living a long life...dealing with a journey back to god (being as we are emanations of said god), blinking back and forth from carnal vehicle to soul vehicle...
Aborted fetus'...while emotionally charged, as a point of discussion, is part and parcel of the whole 'show'...
A99

Originally posted by EfficientP
For those of you who wonder what happens to aborted children's souls, this man describes seeing children, including aborted babies who had died on Earth now being in Heaven. He describes God's reaction and emotion when he shows him the children that he made and sent to this Earth with a purpose who were sent back to him.

Wow, an all-knowing all-powerful God reacts with emotion and surprise when the thing he knew was going to happen happened, and when the thing that was in his perfect plan happened as planned but was against his purpose.

Or something.

Oh Christians, what a tangled web you weave.

At least we know abortions are good. Step right up and send a baby straight into paradise!

Jesus wept.