50 police officers arrested in child porn raids

Originally posted by Rabbi4Peace
I hope these pigs get what's coming to them. Hopefully they will learn their lesson. Police who abuse the badge and do not adhere to the code of conduct that they are bound to then they deserve extra punishment compared to a regular citizen. With the greater power comes greater responsibility which must not be abused.

The amount of people in this thread trying to brush this off as propaganda or a minor event should really learn about child pornography. A family member of mine fell victim of this abuse to an "authority" figure. So be careful when you purposely approach this story with a doubtful view, arm chair psychiatrists and private investigators trying to make sense of all this when they really have no clue.

I agree the sad thing is the internet is crawling with pedophiles and pedopals alike. I see a lot of minimization and denial going on in this thread. Just my observation but i will just say that nobody defends pedos or turns a blind eye if they are of fine.moral fabric. That is putting it nicely to put it blunt its because they may very well share the same impulses however may have never acted on these unsound thoughts. But the element is here.

reply to post by Rabbi4Peace


I don't think anyone here is trying to brush this off - I can only speak for myself when I say i'm trying to outline the actual facts of the matter, based on this article and a wider understanding of Operation Ore.

If the headline or implications of the article propogate a negative myth, then it is our responsibility as seekers of truth and justice to address that. There were over 7000 suspected users/paedophiles in this operation - less than 2000 received a conviction or caution. That is, of course, 2000 too many and to think there could ever be that many in a society (and I suspect this is just scratching the surface) sickens me - but that also means 5000 innocent people who have been falsely accused of despicable crimes.

Criticising the faults in a police operation, or stating the facts of a matter, do not make someone an apologist for the subsequently identified criminals.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I understand people's revulsion at mistreatment of children.

But don't necessarily share it?

What really sends people over the top though, is the sexual mistreatment of children.

And this is unreasonable?

From what I can tell, virtually every parent sexually mistreats their own children, if you include the sexual component of the general psychological savaging that most parents inflict on their children. I think the only children that don't grow up sexually scarred by their own parents are those who are left completely alone by them, and who let them learn about sex on their own from their peers or school programs.

Not so.

Parental involvement is key to when and how many teens find out about sex, birth control, and sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). The CDC says four out of five girls under the age of 18 have talked with their parents about sex, birth control methods, where to get contraceptives, STD transmission and protection, and how to use a condom. That compares to two of every three males under 18. The statistics even out by the age of 18 when roughly the same percentage of male and female teens have talked with their parents.

thechart.blogs.cnn.com...

Most kids receive a blend of formal and parental education on the topic.

www.guttmacher.org...

Some children have sensitive parents who can handle sex education properly but those parents are statistically negligible. No sources, just a hunch, based on evidence of humanity in other spheres.

Those sources contradict your hunch. I shudder to think of who you must be associating with.

The average talk show caller/knucklehead talking to the average talkshow host/knucklehead, has the answer for paedophiles though. Unfortunately, the T&C here doesn't really allow one to spell it out in detail. Just think Nazi torturer for a day.

I see no need to soften the aversion to sexually abusing children. So long as torture is never codified into law, I say we let those guys express their opinion as vociferously as they please.

Being groped by a paedo when you are twelve and subjected to coercive sexual activity is bad but so is the psychological and emotional abuse inflicted by the society in general through the stigma it attaches to sex crimes. Through its ongoing failure to tone down the rhetoric on sexual issues, our society continues to re-victimize all victims of such crimes and to continue to rub salt in the wounds of every such victim.

O rly? Was that just a slick way of saying it's no big deal, and talking about it is worse for the victim than the act itself? 'Cause that's how I parsed it.

Sex crimes are terrible, but they are vastly outstripped in seriousness by numerous other crimes, not the least of which is murder.

Ridiculous. You're comparing a **** hoagie to a turd sandwich, apparently to make the turd sandwich look edible. It's not.

Personally, I believe that they are outstripped in importance even by the casual abuse dished out day after day after day by fine upstanding folks of all stations in life, who in addition to all their other manifold transgressions against their fellow man, would like to execute paedophiles as well.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that while you've never been sexually abused as a child, you did have weird, repressed parents and people are mean to you at work. So, I'll cut you some slack and imagine that you are empathically challenged, rather than trying to minimize the impact of child sex abuse.

Long-term consequences of sexual abuse can include:
*PTSD
*Substance Abuse
*Self-Harm / Self-Injury
*Depression

Long-term effects of anomie and general douchiness in one's immediate environment:
*Misanthropy (evidently)
*Reduced production
mentalhealth.about.com...

I thought my post would generate some vigorous responses. I don't mind that. I stand by what I wrote. I think there are huge numbers of people in our society who may not be paedophiles but who are every bit as reprehensible and who in fact do far more damage to children than paedophiles do, with hardly a whimper of protest from the very large crowd of people who would like to execute paedophiles.

Sexual issues are artificially inflated in importance by our society. The negative fallout from being victimized by paedophiles, the after effects cited by another poster, are also a result of society's generally hysterical reaction to paedophiles, in my opinion.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I thought my post would generate some vigorous responses. I don't mind that. I stand by what I wrote. I think there are huge numbers of people in our society who may not be paedophiles but who are every bit as reprehensible and who in fact do far more damage to children than paedophiles do, with hardly a whimper of protest from the very large crowd of people who would like to execute paedophiles.

So there's a finite pool of concern the public has to draw from, and pedophilia's soaking up the supply? You realize that's what you're pitching, right? Also that child sex abuse is relatively innocuous compared to other social ills, which though a specious argument to begin with, is not helped by your inclusion of petty incivility and media sensationalism in the list of things that are worse.

Sexual issues are artificially inflated in importance by our society.

Alternatively, the media sensationalism reflects both the proliferation of this abhorrent practice, and our feeling of collective helplessness in the face of it.

The negative fallout from being victimized by paedophiles, the after effects cited by another poster, are also a result of society's generally hysterical reaction to paedophiles, in my opinion.

Oh, are you about to whip out ancient Greece, or that certain South African tribe as back-up for this piece of relativist tripe? Although the damage done is perhaps exacerbated by how our society views and treats victims, even in cultures where this was common practice, it is generally accompanied by sexual segregation, inequality and massive power differentials.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I thought my post would generate some vigorous responses. I don't mind that. I stand by what I wrote. I think there are huge numbers of people in our society who may not be paedophiles but who are every bit as reprehensible and who in fact do far more damage to children than paedophiles do, with hardly a whimper of protest from the very large crowd of people who would like to execute paedophiles.

So there's a finite pool of concern the public has to draw from, and pedophilia's soaking up the supply? You realize that's what you're pitching, right? Also that child sex abuse is relatively innocuous compared to other social ills, which though a specious argument to begin with, is not helped by your inclusion of petty incivility and media sensationalism in the list of things that are worse.

Sexual issues are artificially inflated in importance by our society.

Alternatively, the media sensationalism reflects both the proliferation of this abhorrent practice, and our feeling of collective helplessness in the face of it.

The negative fallout from being victimized by paedophiles, the after effects cited by another poster, are also a result of society's generally hysterical reaction to paedophiles, in my opinion.

Oh, are you about to whip out ancient Greece, or that certain South African tribe as back-up for this piece of relativist tripe? Although the damage done is perhaps exacerbated by how our society views and treats victims, even in cultures where this was common practice, it is generally accompanied by sexual segregation, inequality and massive power differentials.

edit on 1-8-2012 by Eidolon23 because: ...

Thank you for doing this Eidelon....I havn't got the words or patience to argue with this one....
2nd..

This thread should be viewed as evidunce that we live in a world of guilty until proven innocent.
This thread show's the epitome of ignorance.
There is zero evidence that shows this just happened.However i am grateful to the op for reporting what seemed to be breaking news because it gives us a chance to reflect on our flaws of justice and judgement.

A ten year old case that resulted in single digit convictions and the suicide of a man and no police were convicted.I wonder how much money and time was spent while absolutely no children are safer from immoral and illegal crimes that happen and are covered up on a daily basis.

There is no doubt in my mind that being victimized by a paedophile is a serious injury emotionally and psychologically, but one of the things that causes the injury to be more serious than it need be is society's attitudes to paedophilia in particular and to sexuality in general.

There is too much outrage, vehemence, extremism, intolerance, intractability and condemnation when it comes to sex crimes, particularly paedophilia. People get more worked up about paedophiles than about mass murder.

There is quite a vogue for mass murder in our times, but it doesn't generate an infinitesmal amount of the outrage that people vent over paedophilia.

This is no accident.

It is no accident that people vent their rage over the activities of paedophiles but are virtually silent about the looting of national treasuries, genocidal wars, the subversion of democratic institutions by elected officials and other sinister and self serving manouvers of the controllers of our societies in the industrialized world.

People can be kept occupied with sports when they are happy and occupied with outrageously over inflated violations like paedophilia when they are angry.

I'm not saying that paedophilia is good or that paedophiles shouldn't be pursued by law enforcement officers.

I'm saying that they have assumed an importance way out of proportion to their real effect on the society. There are reasons for this, but the bottom line is that because of this fact, society gives victims of paedophilia a double whammy of injury.

Paedophilia may be abusive and distasteful to people who care about the feelings of others, but absent physical abuse, absent criminal extortion, absent the exercise of control deemed to fall within conduct prohibited by the criminal code, and most of all, absent the endless hystrionic hullabaloo of societal condemnation, schadenfreude, and theatrical hand wringing, it is only sex.

We may not be able to rid the world of the criminal aspects of sexual abuse but we can certainly rid ourselves of our unwarrented, unhelpful and injurious to people who have already been victimized once, attitudes to the issue.

reply to post by ipsedixit




Also, the idea that concern over pedophilia is somehow distracting from the real issues is as ridiculous now as it was when I rebutted it in my previous post.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
Also, the idea that concern over pedophilia is somehow distracting from the real issues is as ridiculous now as it was when I rebutted it in my previous post.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by Eidolon23
Also, the idea that concern over pedophilia is somehow distracting from the real issues is as ridiculous now as it was when I rebutted it in my previous post.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

What few people realise is the trade in indecent material isn't an isolated thing, and there are indeed other 'real issues' involved here that must be dealt with. It's actually a matter of security, when you break things down.
As I've already mentioned, identity theft is the main facilitator - nobody's going to host or buy the material with their own credit card. In some cases, they'll only rent a proxy server, and infect some unsuspecting person's computer with malware and use that as the actual storage medium.

reply to post by XeroOne


I completely agree with you, Xeroone. But then, you are not being a sneaky apologist for pedophilia. You are pointing out the very great danger of mistaken identity and misguided witchhunts.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
reply to post by XeroOne

 

I completely agree with you, Xeroone. But then, you are not being a sneaky apologist for pedophilia. You are pointing out the very great danger of mistaken identity and misguided witchhunts.

Certainly. But also because playing vigilante is a very dangerous game as it involves dealing with the worst breed of organised criminal, some of them quite capable of tracing anyone who interferes. There's no telling who's involved in a given network, their capabilities or what else they're dealing with.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I thought my post would generate some vigorous responses. I don't mind that. I stand by what I wrote. I think there are huge numbers of people in our society who may not be paedophiles but who are every bit as reprehensible and who in fact do far more damage to children than paedophiles do, with hardly a whimper of protest from the very large crowd of people who would like to execute paedophiles.

Sexual issues are artificially inflated in importance by our society. The negative fallout from being victimized by paedophiles, the after effects cited by another poster, are also a result of society's generally hysterical reaction to paedophiles, in my opinion.

edit on 1-8-2012 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

Bull frackin' ..... you know the rest.

Then why are the children who don't know that it is abnormal scarred by it? Hmmmm?

When you have an answer for that, you'll be on the road to recovery.

Sexual

Sexual issues are artificially inflated in importance by our society.

I think you may have a point. When society continuously tells the victim that what happened to them among the worst things in the world and treats them as a potentially psychologically and sexually damaged person, it may exacerbate their trauma. Same with adult victims of rape.

I think courtesy of our judeo-abrahamic cultural heritage, sexual issues are artificially inflated, and issues of non-sexual violence are deflated in our society, compared to their true harm.

reply to post by Maslo


Okay, here's what you guys have to understand about childhood sexual abuse:

1. Even in a cultural vacuum, the power differential between the adult and the child will always exist, which makes consent an impossibility.

2. The latest brain science indicates that sexual trauma- the act itself, and not the cultural reaction to it- physically alters the way the brain develops. I'm going to have to ask a friend to set me up with some more links on this subject, but here's a good start:

www.nctsnet.org...
www.sacklerinstitute.org...
garnetbird.hubpages.com...
www.leadershipcouncil.org...

reply to post by Eidolon23

1. Even in a cultural vacuum, the power differential between the adult and the child will always exist, which makes consent an impossibility.

Hold on here, that does not make consent an impossibility. Just improbable, and there is a high probability of harm anyway. Consent is not even important in legal sense, because whether the child consented or not, it was not an informed consent as required by law, and may still be harmful.

2. The latest brain science indicates that sexual trauma- the act itself, and not the cultural reaction to it- physically alters the way the brain develops. I'm going to have to ask a friend to set me up with some more links on this subject, but here's a good start:

I agree with this. I am saying that societal attitude may be a contributing factor, but big part of the trauma sure comes also from the act itself.