GOP Poverty Creators Plan to Increase Taxes on 22.9 Million Poor and Middle Class Families

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
Any politician who still clings to trickle-down economics should be hogtied and kicked out of office. It is just a bunch of crap, because the rich, if they re-invest the money in America at all, don't create many if any new jobs for the lower classes. And the middle class is all but gone now, with more and more people falling into the lower classes, whether they realize it or not.

What do you consider is the middle class? I agree that the middle class is about 44% today and in 1970 it was 65%, but 15% in 1970 lived in affluent neighborhoods and today it is 33%. This means that 18% are doing better and 3% are doing worst of the 21% that is no longer the middle class since 1970.

I think one of the big differences is debt to earnings ratio and how much we all have on credit. My credit ratings are excellent and so I can get a house on a 30 year fix for 3.25%, I can buy a car on a 60 month 0 interest loan, I can get a credit card with less than 5% interest etc. We have friends that can't get a loan for a house under 8% now and pay 20 to 30 percent interest on anything else they try to get. These high interest rates that they can only get doesn't slow them down in the least, because America's greed for material things drives much of our problems.

The other side is I carry only one car payment at a time and I save up to buy things and not use credit for anything but connivance that I pay off in at most a few months. This doesn't mean I can get anything I want...I need to wait and save like everyone else, but I carry little debt. When I was young I bought cars well above what I should have, I got things NOW and so put everything on credit with high interest, and it took me 15 years to get out of that hell hole that sucked most of my pay into interest payments.

I think if we look at America it is more common than uncommon for people to live like I did when I was young.


So back to taxes....lets say we tax the crap out of the rich (3 milion Americans) at 75% what does that do for the poor?

reply to post by CynicalDrivel

If you are under 14, you don't file taxes to get the child break that the IRS can give. So, if the IRS states that 49.7% of the files processed did not pay taxes, then it's talking about adults. If it's dealing with the number of SSNs on each paper filed, then the kids are counted. Which is it now?

Exactly my point.
The numbers posted earlier in the thread did not add up.
As quoted by another poster his numbers added up to 200 million.

And that didn't make sense since 20% of the us population were kids 0-14.

I wanted him to make the distinction between all americans or working american adults.

reply to post by grey580


THERE IS NO MONEY!!!

There is only trade instruments, you pay a usury FEE in the form of taxes on the using of the Federal Reserve NOTE which is a debt instrument, an IOU!!!!!

When will people pull their heads out and comprehend what is going on...FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Accept for Value and Return for Discharge ALL debt. Send your utility bills to the U.S. Treasury, THEY HAVE TO pay them. Write on the face of the bill, it's not a bill, it's a statement, ACEEPT FOR VALUE and RETURN FOR DISCHARGE along with your SSN and send it to the treasury for settlement. THEY CAN NOT REFUSE to balance the books.

It's ALL bookkeeping!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by thepresident


So why are the GOP and conservatives hell bent on giving them tax breaks, self regulatory
power and the destruction of laws that give the government the power to keep the
bankers in check?

Because many of them have been bought off by the system created by the LEFT...

Originally posted by thepresident
See, that is the problem you are not examining.

That's the problem you are not seeing... You can't see the trees, nor the roots of the trees in the forest in front of you...

To solve the problem we need to get rid of the ROOT OF THE PROBLEM, which is the LEFTWINGER SYSTEM THAT HAS EXISTED SINCE 1913 at least.

Originally posted by thepresident
The FED in privately owned, but conservatives do not want to regulate business.

The Feds SHOULDN'T EXIST... If the Feds doesn't exist, it doesn't need regulating...

Instead of using the PAPER currency with nothing to back it we should get back to the silver and gold standard...

Some states in the U.S. have passed laws to get back to the gold and silver standard, but of course the Feds are against this.

Originally posted by thepresident
So why are conservatives unwilling to use the government to slow down the role
of the banks?

BECAUSE THE FEDS OWN THE GOVERNMENT... How do you control the Feds with the government when THE FEDS OWN THE GOVERNMENT?...

Originally posted by thepresident

WTF business is it of yours?

I am asking because YOU offered yourself what you are supposedly earning... But we don't really know if you may be living with your parents, or what is the real situation...

The truth is, when someone gets defensive, like you just did, it is because a nerve was hit.

Originally posted by thepresident
I survive how I see fit, are you the means Gestapo of ATS?

Me?... LOL naaa, I hate control. I know that the only thing we can control is ourselves, everything else, including the future, we have no real control over...

Originally posted by thepresident
I don't take government money, so it my personal business how and where I spend my money.

Just like an elitist, which explains the rest of your pro rich conservative ideas. There is nothing
for me to add, you are brainwashed.

Enjoy your caviar!

I am not rich... I was born poorer than you have ever been and worked hard and broke my back to earn what I have. In fact I am disabled now, I have severe left brachial plexopathy and have to constantly take pain pills for the pain, and I live from Social Security which I have been paying for over 21 years until my disability...

That is the way that social security was supposed to work, but it has been used for other things BY LEFTWINGERS MAINLY, which has broken the system and it is almost without money.

I don't have any debt now because I was careful, planning what to do and what not to do without overspending, and yes my family and I have had to use credit cards and even lived over the credit at one point, but we knew we had to pay off the debt and stop overspending on what we didn't need.

My parents came close to being foreclosured but I helped them in everything I could and they are much better now. At one point I even had to stop going to college for years, and by doing this lost my free tuition I earned as an honor student, to work full time and help my parents as well as live my life.

I know probably better than you what is really to live in poverty. I know what it is to have to use your index finger as your toothbrush, and use soap as paste because you have to choose each month whether to buy toothpaste or a bar of soap for the entire family, (btw I have good teeth) much less have the money for a laptop, or even have reliable electricity to have internet, or even reliable light and including not having much food to eat because of the socialist system from the country where I was born which made most of us Cubans poor...

The United States accepted to be slowly transformed into another socialist system ever since the Feds and the IRS were funded by Progressive Democrats in 1913, and it is because of this LEFTWINGER system that the entire world is in so much trouble...

Originally posted by nunyadammm

That opinionated rant.
Ok lets stop right there because this sounds like fun.
You are wrong.
I do not have to prove that, you have to, right?

Really?...

Let's do this...

Let's see, the Federal minimum wage I said is $7.25...

The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009.
...

www.dol.gov...

The extension on the amount of money that people have to make to receive, or not receive the $1,000 dollar child tax credit FOR ONE PERSON, which if you read my post I mentioned this is for one person, is the amount I mentioned of $13,300...

The Republican plan increases the threshold for working families earning $13,300 annually to receive a child tax credit of $1,000, and will deny 8.9 million working-poor families, and 16.4 million children, $7.6 billion in assistance for 2013. The federal poverty level for a family of four is $23,050 annually so the GOP plan is a significant tax increase on every family living under the poverty level.
...

www.politicususa.com...

Now about the math, please pray tell me where I was wrong...

If you are talking about my mentioning that LEFTWINGERS are the ones who put the Feds, and the IRS in power, then you are very ignorant of history, and here is your proof from a LEFTWINGER source...

...
Thomas Woodrow Wilson (December 28, 1856 – February 3, 1924) was the 28th President of the United States, from 1913 to 1921. A leader of the Progressive Movement, he served as President of Princeton University from 1902 to 1910, and then as the Governor of New Jersey from 1911 to 1913. Running against Progressive ("Bull Moose") Party candidate Theodore Roosevelt and Republican candidate William Howard Taft, Wilson was elected President as a Democrat in 1912.
In his first term as President, Wilson persuaded a Democratic Congress to pass major progressive reforms. Historian John M. Cooper argues that, in his first term, Wilson successfully pushed a legislative agenda that few presidents have equaled, and remained unmatched up until the New Deal.(1) This agenda included the Federal Reserve Act, Federal Trade Commission Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, the Federal Farm Loan Act and an income tax.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

LEFTWINGERS created the Feds, and the IRS as it exists now, and it is the policies that were put in place by LEFTWINGERS which have created the problems we have been seen since then, and until now on the world markets.

Now we are being told that in order to "save us all and save the planet" we have to give MORE power and control to the government and take away a few "freedoms"...

But by doing this we are simply giving more power and control to the Feds/aka the international socialist/fascist banking elite and their associates...

You really think that by doing this it will solve the problems when the problems started in a similar way?...

You give more power and control to the Government, and you are in fact giving it to the Feds/aka the international socialist/fascist banking elites and their associates...

reply to post by grey580
Just wanted to make sure it was clear. Kind of hard, in that argument to see this point.

Originally posted by neo96
Gop poverty creators eh?

The current adminstration with Obama care levies over 20 new taxes on the "middle class" from FDR to Johnson to Obama poverty in America is more than it has ever been.

The poverty creators is the left even tho they try to pass it off on the right as usual blame someone else for the things they have done typical lefists ideology.

It is that same leftist ideology that created the department of education that creates nothing but morons, the same idelogy that has expanded the Epa powers that kill jobs.

It is the same leftist ideology that created Social/ Security,Medicare,Medicaid,welfare, unemployment insurance that all have destroyed jobs and wealth creation that account for over 2.5 trillion dollars of Federal spending.

Even tho those "evil rich" pay the majority of income tax in this country still not good enough. We know that 50% of this country has zero tax liability, and get refunds,.tax credits.free educations.free healthcare.free homes.free cell phones.

Now since 50% is not paying any tax yet they are taking the majority of federal benefits paid for by less than 5 million people.

Not one single federal tax dollar spent through social engineering has ever created a "millionaire", "billionaire" then some get all "upset" about the "evil Gop" and create threads blaming others for what the Democrats have done.

edit on 30-7-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

The rich pay all the taxes because they got all the money.Having all the money makes the system not work so good.You can't let one person have it all.

And I'm sure the super rich use a greater percentage of the infrastructure and amenities provided by the government, which in turn allows them to make all this money
The reality is that there is a point where enough is enough and too much is too much. Governments spend money on more things than entitlement programs. and I'm sure you know that even the poorest among us pay taxes for social security and medicare.The problem with Americans is that they have been taught to believe in the sanctity of the wealthy persons right to money. Time to stop shilling for those folks baby. cause I know you ain't one of them.

There's as lot of (D) vs (R) on this thread with each side of the aisle trying to claim the other side of the aisle is the problem. I'm an Independent - a fiscally conservative one, but an Independent.

The President, as we all know, doesn't make the rules and the laws (unless it is a President who is abusing Executive Order privilege and we've had/have some of those); rules and laws come from Congress, both House and Senate - and we all know that, too.

U.S. News Reports this morning that Federal Deficit Highest Since 1940s, stating specifically "The federal deficit is higher than it has been since the 1940s, in the years immediately after World War II."

U.S. involvement in WWII ended in 1945.

So, let's look at The Balance Of Power Between Congress and The Presidency

From 1945 through 2009, who held the majority in Congress TWENTY-TWO (22) times? The Democrats.

How many times did the Republicans hold the majority during those 64 years? 6 times.

How many times was power in Congress divided? 5 times - Republics having majority in Senate 4 times to the Democrats 1 time; and, Democrats holding the House 4 times to the Republicans 1 time.

During that same time, we've had 15 Democrat Presidents and 18 Republican Presidents, so they're pretty well even.

While I personally believe that the two parties are pretty much just two sides of the same coin, I do have to ask how so much can be blamed on the Republicans when it is the Democrats who have held the majority in Congress 22 times compared to the Republicans holding the majority in Congress only 6 times - Democrats controlling all of Congress almost 67% (66.6666%) of the time since 1945, compared to Republicans having control of it 18.18% of the time and a split Congress 15.15% of the time.

If you want to see job growth under Presidents for that same period, there's a 2010 article here. It shows job growth under Obama as of preliminary estimate for October 2010 to be -1% but, as we know, it is much higher now.

The rally cry is that, of course, Obama inherited Bush's mess and he did, but Bush inherited some of Clinton's mess and Clinton inherited some of Bush I's mess, ad infinitum. I did not like Bush; however, to his credit, he did try to warn of the FannieMae/FreddieMac crap that bled over from the Clinton Administration and told them it was not sustainable - and, as we know, it all came crashing down and it took most of us with it.

Bush implemented the Patriot Act, an Act I considered traitorous. Obama campaigned that he would get rid of it but, instead, he expanded it. When WAS the last honest President?!

If we're to fix our Country, we must stop arguing among ourselves - WE are 'We, the People.' We must do all we can to get MORE than a 2-in-1 party system. We must stop blindly supporting a letter behind someone's name and start investigating each candidate individually. It has always been the job of the media to do that but they've been purchased somewhere along the way, so we must do it ourselves. And it seems ATS would be a fine place to do that! There could be a whole Forum Topic just for that.

If we want to look at the programs implemented that have cost this Country trillions of dollars, we cannot deny the reality that we must look first to the Democrats and secondarily to the Republicans.

Ted Cruz won in Texas last night against David Dewhurst. Dewhurst was considered a shoe-in and he ran some nasty ads against Cruz and Cruz didn't have the money to run ads, but another group raised money and ran some ads for him. Dewhurst out raised Cruz in funds by some $13.4 million. I watched them both closely .. and I voted for the man who looked like he had the LEAST amount of corporate sponsorship. One of them was going to go to Washington and I wanted the one with the least amount of corporate sponsorship.

I'm not saying that I'm one of the sharpest crayons in the box; however, I DO believe that looking at the new person who seems 'in it to win it,' going at with with all he or she has but no money, and comparing how much s/he can drum up from supporters to the amount of money a seasoned incumbent who is already lining his/her pockets can drum up MAY be a starting place. We've got to start on smaller areas - city council, county elections, and clean house from the bottom up.

And we most definitely need to look for ways that we, American citizens, can change our voting system to one of 3 or 4 parties and not just two sides of the same coin.

Rather than argue moot points that none of us seem able to change, why don't we try to isolate areas upon which we agree and go from there

reply to post by grey580


The rich need a tax cut?
It has been what, 10yrs when the tax cuts were enacted? I would call them the current tax rate.The government does not pay anyone anything to keep their own money. So how exactly is the government going to increase taxes on the poor? They already have been socking it to the poor with the cigarette taxes.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


So you just move on to two new points and pretend that wins the argument?
Okey dokey.
It would be cooler though, had you responded to what my response actually was with respect to what it replied to.
Maybe that is asking too much?
You seem angry.
Do you remember what exactly it was we were saying?

reply to post by nunyadammm


I proved everything that I wrote... As to your question in specific, the problem with people like you is that you have become too lazy, too complacent and want others to do the job you should be doing...

You shouldn't leave me, or anyone else the job of finding out the truth... it should be EVERY PERSON'S RESPONSIBILITY... It is YOUR responsibility to find out the truth and what is going on.

I have said it many times, and I will keep on saying it. Even those RINOs (Republican In Name Only) that claim to be Republican and have been helping in the destruction of this nation are also to be blamed, and they should never get away with what they have done.

However, I have also said, and this is the truth, that in order for us to solve these problems once and for all we have to get rid of the root problem, and the problem has been the LEFTWINGER system implemented by the rich world banker elites...

Only under socialism/communism can a small group of people hold all the power, and have all control, and that is what these people want.

If we are to rid ourselves of these people, and the problems they bring, we have to get rid of their system...their LEFTWINGER system.

They will continue trying to entice people to accept their system by lying, and making false promises like they HAVE ALWAYS done.

They will continue claiming, and will continue doing some re-writting of history, that socialism/communism is the answer, but they are the problem.

If we are not to fall again on the same hole these world socialist/fascist elites dug for all of us, we have to get rid of their socialist/fascist system.

There is no way around that, and there is no middle ground.

We have tried their "middle ground" and here is where we are...

reply to post by SeesFar


Every country, and the people in those countries should be the ones deciding what sort of system they want to implement in their countries. But for the U.S.A. the best system has always been Republicanism.

Many people, and mostly those in the left, don't even have any idea of what being a Republican really is.

Republican can refer to:
An advocate of a republic, a form of government that is not a monarchy or dictatorship, and is generally associated with the rule of law Republicanism, the ideology in support of republics or against monarchy; the opposite of monarchism
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Even the founding fathers of the U.S.A. with all their differences and different ideas understood at one time and agreed on what is the best form of government for the people of the United States, and they wrote it on the Constitution.

Article IV - The States
Section 4

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

usgovinfo.about.com...

The world socialist/fascist elites have been working hard for decades in destroying the only, and original party in the U.S. that was "The People's Party", the Republican Party...

They have been destroying it so that people will become used to a nanny state, a socialist/fascist state.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Do you seriously believe that they were referring to the Republican party?
Seriously.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


This is why I know you have no argument. All you can do is call me lazy for not proving YOUR argument FOR YOU. What you fail to understand is that instead of being lazy, I am finding a different truth. How you determine just how much effort I put into that without even imagining it were possible is going to be an amazing tale to tell. That is ok, I understand.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by thepresident


So why are the GOP and conservatives hell bent on giving them tax breaks, self regulatory
power and the destruction of laws that give the government the power to keep the
bankers in check?

Because many of them have been bought off by the system created by the LEFT...

Conservatives preach giving tax breaks to the Elite, the bankers and the rest,
Trickle Down economics and so forth. Those are not left wing virtues or talking
points, are you trying to waste my time here?Conservatives want to lower taxes
on the rich, raise them on the poor, eliminate banking regulations and re-regulate
in ways that benefit the banks. Again how is it left wing to be pro banks
which are the back bone of the capitalist system as they capitalize that system?

That's the problem you are not seeing... You can't see the trees, nor the roots of the trees in the forest in front of you...

Clearly I cannot with your halfway bipolar perspective on the banks and political polarity.
You are exceptionally ignorant if you think left wingers are interested in promoting
the banks, elite and rich interests, simply for the fact that those three things are contrary
to left wing ideology.

To solve the problem we need to get rid of the ROOT OF THE PROBLEM, which is the LEFTWINGER SYSTEM THAT HAS EXISTED SINCE 1913 at least.

But the right wingers of course don't do that, no, they make it worse by combating all attempts
to restrain and curtail banking abuses. Look at MODERN policy my dear friend - how is
raising student loan rates, on behalf of conservatives, a blow to the FED or banks?

It is not, my friend, it is directly servicing the banks interests with trickle down, supply side
ideology which is RIGHT WING IDEOLOGY in America.

Originally posted by thepresident

The Feds SHOULDN'T EXIST... If the Feds doesn't exist, it doesn't need regulating...

It does exist, see that the flipping problem , it is there and conservatives apply policy
that only makes matters so much worse because conservatives prefer a top down
hierarchy you genius.The banks are the top, trickle down is a top down policy.

Own it and release your brain from the confines of low blood flow.

Originally posted by thepresident
BECAUSE THE FEDS OWN THE GOVERNMENT... How do you control the Feds with the government when THE FEDS OWN THE GOVERNMENT?...

And the FED owns the government because the banks stock the government with pro business
conservatives who believe in a top down economic model. Pro business, just like Romney
is currently going on about; a trait that Conservatives pride them selves in...

Well the Banks are,

guess what???


A BUSINESS


ding ding ding!

The FED owns the government because we elect pro business corporatists who believe
in a top down hierarchy AKA Conservatives