GOP Poverty Creators Plan to Increase Taxes on 22.9 Million Poor and Middle Class Families

Originally posted by grey580

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by grey580


Yes.


Anything else you want to say?

Ah, so you are a supporter of Obama and just posted this dribble, and the lies to TRY to cruxify Republicans and for the re-election of Obama?...

Yep...I guess that's all I have to say...

edit on 1-8-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

I support the Democratic party.
Obama.. not much.

And I don't need to crucify the Republicans. They do that job themselves alot better than I can.

What I can't stand are hypocritical supposedly moral conservatives outspending most democrats and then doing un christian like things while in office.

I would like to change parties and be a Republican. But I can't in good conscience do so as long as the right wing conservatives are in the party. Because they are a bunch of hypocritical bastards.

Haha, what? You would become a Republican if they became Democrats?

I honestly can't believe people on THIS forum still believe in fairy tales, like Republicans or Democrats can solve our problems. Yeah, voting for a corporately controlled political party, backed by international banking interests surely has our best interests at heart.

We are well and truly f-cked.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by thepresident

1.Some weeks I make less than minimum wage.

You make LESS than the minimum wage and you have a computer and internet?... Really?... hummm...

hummm. I rent a room out in a house that has wifi. hummm
Although usually I make smoke signals to communicate.
I make money based on the availability of work, am I too
poor and common to share the internet with you?

Originally posted by thepresident
2.You are talking about corporations but ignore that conservatives do everything in their power
to deflect corporate tax burden, laws, regulations and accountability. Here is yet another example
for you to learn a lesson in modern history instead of referencing history from 100 years ago that
scantly means jack squat 100 years later. Conservatives have morphed into plutocrats and
raising taxes on the poorest people is a prime example showing that they are for the plutocracy
and corporations, above people.

Let me give you, or refresh, the true history a bit more since you seem to be confused about the facts.

First, it was because of the LEFT that the BANKER ELITES aka/the Federal Reserve has taken control of the economy of the U.S.A. since 1913, same economy which has been helping corporations become monopolies TO THIS DAY, and which TO THIS DAY is in great part the reason why we are TO THIS DAY in this mess...

And who is eliminating all the tax burden and laws for those same Bankers 100 years later?

Conservatives

Eliminating those two things only makes banks more powerful by increasing their wealth
and political power. It is common sense, follow the money and whoever is protecting the
money is the agent.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by grey580

 

Fourth, this Republican bill is not going to affect AMERICAN legal citizens, or legal residents, even if they are poor.

It will effect me and one of my house mates

But I guess we are too common hummm?

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by buster2010
By doing this they can force more people to go on government assistance. Then the GOP will cry that Obama is trying to make America a socialist country where the government has to take care of everyone.

The GOP is becoming more and more useless every time they open their mouths.

there all one big party looking out for there next elections. Its a one party system to make you think theres two partys. They want you to think you have free will to elect your leaders. Really, Obama is Bush, Romney will be Obama, If they did not make it look like you have a choice then there would be riots in the streets.

edit on 30-7-2012 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

nice try, but there is a big difference. all first world countries have a heavy dose of socialism mixed with capitalism...all third world countries are dictatorships mixed with plutocratic capitalism.
democrats work to bring a better life to all americans, republicans work to bring a better life to the wealthy....big difference.

BTW, let me post some of the warnings made by American Senators throughout the years, and mostly before and during the time when the LEFT allowed for the global banking elites to take control over the U.S.A. and the world's economy.

Quotes On Banking and the Federal Reserve System FRAUD
...
"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" — Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)

"This (Federal Reserve Act) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Wilson) signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." — Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A.
Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny..." — Congressman
Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941

"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen.
There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" — Congressional Record 12595-12603 — Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgivable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." — John Danforth (R-Mo)

"These 12 corporations together cover the whole country and monopolize and use for private gain every dollar of the public currency..." — Mr. Crozier of Cincinnati, before Senate Banking and Currency Committee - 1913

"The (Federal Reserve Act) as it stands seems to me to open the way to a vast inflation of the currency... I do not like to think that any law can be passed that will make it possible to submerge the gold standard in a flood of irredeemable paper currency." — Henry Cabot Lodge Sr., 1913
...

BTW, the following is very important for people to know and understand.

...
"The Federal Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities..." — Lewis vs. United States
9th Circuit 1992

"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." — Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239
9th Circuit 1982
...

You can find much more, including the above exceprts, from the following website.

www.barefootsworld.net...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Look at the policy of today for Christ's sake.

The GOP just tried to hike student loans so the banks could DOUBLE their profits.

The GOP wants to raise taxes on poor people and pass the savings on to the banks
with tax breaks.

The torch has been passed

Originally posted by thepresident

hummm. I rent a room out in a house that has wifi. hummm
Although usually I make smoke signals to communicate.
I make money based on the availability of work, am I too
poor and common to share the internet with you?

Nothing bad with being poor, but if you truly were poor I doubt you would have been able to buy a laptop. Do you also have a cell phone, an iphone, and other gadgets? Don't tell me, you need them all for work.

Originally posted by thepresident

And who is eliminating all the tax burden and laws for those same Bankers 100 years later?

Conservatives

WRONG... It is, and has been the Feds...as in the international bankers put in power by the LEFT...

Also, you think that Obama, and democrats, or even PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS will stop the Feds, or are not working for them?... These were the kind of people who implemented and set up the system...

Originally posted by thepresident
Eliminating those two things only makes banks more powerful by increasing their wealth
and political power. It is common sense, follow the money and whoever is protecting the
money is the agent.

Conservatives are not the problem, again you are wrong... You don't solve the problem by introducing MORE LEFTWING policies, the same kind of policies which created the problems we have today and which have formed socialist dictatorships...

You solve the problem by getting rid of the root, socialism. Take socialism/communism out of the system, and a great part of the problem is solved.

Only under a socialist/communist system centralization, including a central bank, exists. Only under socialism/communism is power consolidated to only a few.

It is because of LEFTWING/SOCIALISM/FASCISM that we have so many problems today...

Originally posted by thepresident
Look at the policy of today for Christ's sake.

The GOP just tried to hike student loans so the banks could DOUBLE their profits.

The GOP wants to raise taxes on poor people and pass the savings on to the banks
with tax breaks.

The torch has been passed

Please first, post the evidence, and not claims.

Second, what do you expect would happen when LEFTWINGERS have given power to the banker elites?...

Again, you don't solve the problem by using more of the same solutions which created the problem...

You get rid of the Feds and the system explodes, taking away with it all the filth that the LEFTWING system created...

In part what some people say about "there is no right nor left in the system" is true. There is only LEFT, and LEFT claiming to be right...

reply to post by Evil_Santa


But if I didn't have my taxes going to them, I'd spend the money myself, making roughly the same amount of jobs. Now, as far as the rich. Most of them don't just sit and stare at their money. They have their money working on interest, or in the stock markets. That is investing in the system, and it funds a lot of jobs, as well.

The only place where there's more money for jobs coming in is at the level where more MONETARY WEALTH is CREATED, not RECYCLED. So, you want more jobs? Start finding base sources, like chopping down a tree, or filling a bag with sand, to make something. Then MAKE something out of it that has value.

The only reason that this is off-kilter right now is because the dollar that we trade the real currency by (which is goods) is artificially made on a whim. The Federal Reserve doesn't account for what they make, and when banks get a hold of money, they're allowed to loan it out at 10x the value that they actually hold.

*sigh* The biggest problem is that when you have nothing but jobs in retail, or the service industry, and nobody working in manufacturing, then of course the disparity is going to widen. Sorry, you don't pay a good salary to man a till, and not produce a good that is on the shelf to sell in the first place.

reply to post by Fromabove


And this is one of the biggest problems I get to face. I work because I like to work. I don't work more than a couple of shifts a week because I don't like work that much, and I've got other things to do--while my hubby works the 9-5. So my own job brought in about 8K this last year. Hubby got another raise, and I'll make closer to 9K this year. We're going up a tax bracket, and it will wipe out more of what I made. We're seriously going to have to look at whether or not it is more financially advisable or responsible for me to work.

The more taxes there are, especially when you've finally moved up a bracket is almost enough to get people to want to earn less. This goes all the way up to the highest tax bracket. If what I made more, that bumped me up is less than what my tax is hiked, I've made no progress. These types of gaps are what bothers me, more than anything.

reply to post by Evil_Santa


Um, some people already live that way. Heck, there's still swampers down here that rarely see the inside of a town, or dry land, for that matter. We don't need roads. We don't need electricity. Certainly as hell don't get much of anything from the education.

But what is not grasped is that if it took my tax money to pay for the road, then I can pay for the road without the tax. People still remember, down here, when roads were paid for privately. Heck, some roads are still privately owned, down here, especially in small subdivisions made off of a single family property. We're only forced to put a name on the street when there's more than 4 houses on the property--and that's freaking emergency ordinances, not because the government owns the road.

reply to post by Xtrozero


You're my hero.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Got a huge example of it down here. There are 60K jobs for the taking down here. It wouldn't be what you make your first year, but if you prove to be good at the tasks they give you, 60K is reasonable--and in some parts, not top dollar at all. I'm talking welding, fitting, offshore work.

We have a state law that just came out, that penalizes the company that hires the illegals (3rd strike, you could lose your license to operate for 6 months!), so the oilfield down here is SCRAMBLING for legal immigrants, and AMERICANS. Oilfield still has nothing but illegal Mexicans all over the place, down here.

There is no reason for someone to work at flipping burgers down here, if they are over 18--men or women! Guess what, we don't go out there for these jobs that could pay for a decent house within 5 years and frugal spending practices. Shame on us. For perspective, teachers make a little more than half that, down here.

reply to post by RealSpoke


I agree, but when the poor person doesn't take their breaking back to the 60K job that is begging for people, there's an issue there, too. I should know. I make 9K a year, when there's a 60K job my father could TEACH me to do because he was a 60K worker. Since I'm a girl, he doesn't want to, and since I'm a girl, I don't want to. So, my "technical poverty" is all on me.

@ pg 6

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


You make 9k, is that before or after income taxes? If you make 9k a year then you are not being paid the minimum wage, or you don't work full time.

If you are 21 or less, and only make that much then you can still be considered as dependent of your parents.

I don't want to get nosey on your private matters, but since you mentioned how much you make I am trying to figure out in which situation you are personally.

(Never mind, I see the answer in the response you gave.)

As to what you were saying, lot of people these days don't want to deal with personal resposibility, and they have been indoctrinated/taught to be dependent on the government, and that is a BIG problem in many ways.
People should learn to be INDEPENDENT, including of the government.

They just need to lower taxes across the board. Stop subsidizing. Stop giving money to other nations. Reduce military spending. Put more restrictions on welfare - ppl w/ foodstamps have to buy more healthy. Kill the obama healthcare "law". We need to make healthcare more efficient, not free. I think the biggest problem I have with it is that it forces people to get health insurance.

I don't know why people blame corporations. This isn't their fault. This is the fault of government not controlling its habits and overspending its budget. We need MORE people like the 1%, not less. Rich people work very hard to be wealthy and that's what we should all aim for. We should not penalize someone for being wealthy. Neither should we encourage a loser to lose just so they can get on welfare. If any penalizing happens it should be for bad choices. Like not looking for work or getting fired from the workplace. People who routinely make bad choices should not be "helped".

We have a vast welfare system and I have to wonder if we're addicted to it. As a nation we've become too soft. Whatever happened to letting those who fail learn from their mistakes? I'm not advocating relocating the sick to the streets. What I'm saying is we're too afraid of letting somebody feel the consequences of their mistakes. We spend crazy amounts of money to create the illusion that everything is OK. But it's clearly not OK. Health is terrible in this country. How on earth can we accept the crap that people eat? Crap food should be taxed or banned just like drugs are.

Bad health and habits amounts to many billions of dollars lost every year. Accidents are another big part in this. We all have to hold each other more accountable for our decisions.

Our prisons are growing. We spend millions of dollars on ONE trial that has a potential execution verdict. That doesn't include the cost of the murder and the strain on the families. The yearly costs for an average prisoner are ~$49,000. High security prisoners are maybe $80,000/year. This man who shot up people in the Colorado theatre is costing our country (shortterm) tens of millions.

We could all talk and talk and talk about what we think would solve hte problems. But ultimately, we have a ballooning debt and it's on all our shoulders. It's something like $15 trillion now.

BTW, I really want to emphasize on the following fact said so many years ago by Republican Senator McFadden.

...
"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" — Congressional Record 12595-12603 — Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932
...

www.barefootsworld.net...

A lot of people have no idea which is the LARGEST CORPORATION in the United States, and probably the world... It is the FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS owned by INTERNATIONAL SOCIALIST/FASCIST BANKER ELITES...

reply to post by MrXYZ


By ratio or by how much he actually pays?

Thing is if you make 100Million in a year, and you pay 2 million in taxes, you've paid 2%. If you make 100K in a year and are taxed 20K, you've paid 20% on taxes. Who paid more? The one who had to shell out 2 million. Who paid more by percentage? The 100K. Semantics in the argument are funny.

That being said, I don't want to hear it from anyone who makes 100K or less complaining that the rich don't pay as much in taxes. If they pay more than you make a year, they're paying enough. The government doesn't NEED that much money. Cut the spending, not the money tree.
reply to post by Indigo5


Some would. Others would go bankrupt. Naturally waiting on a 50%-50% NEVER fully does this. To make it stay 50%-50%, it has to be artificially forced: as in what they already do in Casinos. At the end of each month, they check to see if they've met their quota to keep the law off their back, and if they have not, they increase the odds in favor of the clientele. If they've given away too much, they can make it harder to win, to recoup some of what they lost in the month.

reply to post by grey580


Um, no. For one big reason. If Obamacare wasn't figured into the taxes of the Democratic side, then their numbers are based on having to lower it to maintain Obamacare's added weight, while the GOP doesn't have to do it, because they plan on getting rid of Obamacare. So the argument is really: My low tax rate+ whopping Obamacare bill vs. My high tax rate + NO Obamacare. Whichever one comes out less is the one to go for. And I know which one should be less. lol

reply to post by grey580


If you are under 14, you don't file taxes to get the child break that the IRS can give. So, if the IRS states that 49.7% of the files processed did not pay taxes, then it's talking about adults. If it's dealing with the number of SSNs on each paper filed, then the kids are counted. Which is it now?

reply to post by PromiseKept2016
Glad to see you joined after not searching.

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom


Your job was eliminated and you did nothing to better yourself at that moment, to make you more valuable for the next job? If so, losing the job's not your fault, but 2008-2012 is. Constantly having an "I can't" attitude gives you nothing because you've earned nothing. (Now, thank God if this is not the case!)

Here's a better way of looking at it: Do you NEED to be int he top .1%? Or do you NEED to be a 100K worker? If so, go for the things that will get you into a 100K position. It may mean doing things you never wanted to do, but so what? I doubt there's but a few people out there that make the money that they want, doing the job they want, without making sacrifices.

My thing, in my life is that I need about 5-6K to function without being a drain on my spouse. I make more than that, and I have time to work on other things. Someday, I may need to think about being in a 35K income--and when that time comes, since I've had the time to work for this now, it will be on me for not working for it.

Just remember complacency in life killed the Dodo. Having someone else foot the bill will not change your complacency--and it is death.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

A lot of people have no idea which is the LARGEST CORPORATION in the United States, and probably the world... It is the FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS owned by INTERNATIONAL SOCIALIST/FASCIST BANKER ELITES...

edit on 1-8-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

So why are the GOP and conservatives hell bent on giving them tax breaks, self regulatory
power and the destruction of laws that give the government the power to keep the
bankers in check?

See, that is the problem you are not examining.

The FED in privately owned, but conservatives do not want to regulate business.

The banks use the FED as a tool, but conservatives want banks to have less
regulations and more money via tax cuts.

So why are conservatives unwilling to use the government to slow down the role
of the banks?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by thepresident

hummm. I rent a room out in a house that has wifi. hummm
Although usually I make smoke signals to communicate.
I make money based on the availability of work, am I too
poor and common to share the internet with you?

Nothing bad with being poor, but if you truly were poor I doubt you would have been able to buy a laptop. Do you also have a cell phone, an iphone, and other gadgets? Don't tell me, you need them all for work.

WTF business is it of yours?

I survive how I see fit, are you the means Gestapo of ATS?

I don't take government money, so it my personal business how and where I spend my money.

Just like an elitist, which explains the rest of your pro rich conservative ideas. There is nothing
for me to add, you are brainwashed.

Enjoy your caviar!

reply to post by LDragonFire

Understand that this is NOT about getting rid of charity:

Retirees paid for what they have, should not be considered. There are consequences to not bettering your job situation, and some of these people get that end of the stick. Besides, where are their kids? Why should I support 1 old person who has children? That's their job, just like my parents are mine.

If I refuse to have kids and wind up on some sort of assisted living, then that's my fault too. (And I'm saying this while being unable to have kids, literally, so don't complain about something you don't know personally.)

Children are the responsibility of their parents. If the parents have nothing wrong with them and the kids suffer financially, then the parents are at fault, not the government. If the kids have no parents, then get them into homes and quit making it so hard to adopt. That doesn't mean I like seeing kids left behind, but damn, put the responsibility where it belongs.

When it comes to those born with genetic diseases that limit their abilities? Get them to work to their abilities. We've got Walmart Greeters that can't speak or walk. We've got a mall cop on a Segway because his muscles won't support him to walk the whole mall. We've got 1 restaurant that funds the education of the retarded (TARC) that the kids themselves roll the silverware up for. They make things, like pottery, and sell it. Some of the higher functioning ones work at the TARC thrift store (along with volunteers), where they sell donations. Now I do know that the effort of making these kids work costs more than what they pay into the system, but man, every little bit helps.

When it comes to those injured on jobs, and on disability, they should be worked to their abilities, or reeducated for jobs that require less of them, physically. It may also mean that they can't work for a while, while recuperating. I mean, between my neck and my knee, and my weight? I could probably score high enough to go onto disability, but forget that. I'm going to work, although there are some nights I'm praying that my vertebrae is going to pop back into place so the room will stop spinning.

reply to post by RealSpoke

It's more along the lines that the rich, who know how to make money, will continue to get richer, no matter what we do. seriously, all we ever do is change the rate at which their money grows--except for in times when the financial markets crash.

Trickle-up economics should only look at the data on what it does to the poor and middle-class. If the poor become less poor during the time of T-u E, then it worked. If it doesn't then it didn't. Thing is, especially when inflation is added to the system, then it's easier to see that the welfare doesn't better enough people to make it a viable system--it just keeps them on it. Plainly: the programs are not making anyone richer that it was intended to make richer, so the programs need to go.

Seriously, when looking at the poor and why they are poor, why do we always look at those who do better?

reply to post by openminded2011
Um, you can thank the person who let the Tariffs go out the window for that one, too. Jobs don't go overseas when you are penalized for making the goods outside your country at or above cost to make it here.
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

The illegals in the oil filed are making more than teachers, down here.
reply to post by grey580
That's in office. Not necessarily what happens overall. Look at what the voters do.Sometimes it's a matter of semantics, as to how to get them to give to charity.
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

The last president to go head to head against the FED was JFK. He died not long afterwards.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by CynicalDrivel

 

You make 9k, is that before or after income taxes? If you make 9k a year then you are not being paid the minimum wage, or you don't work full time.

Paycheck varies. Bring home roughly 200-300 every 2 weeks. I think the 9 K is gross, but I didn't file the taxes-hubby did.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by grey580

 

First, you should read my other responses in this post.

Second, that link you gave is an un-official site supporting Obama.

Third, some of us including myself have proven that the claims made in that link are a lie.

Fourth, this Republican bill is not going to affect AMERICAN legal citizens, or legal residents, even if they are poor.

Fifth, the reason why we are in this mess is because of PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS/the LEFT...

But you still believe all these lies and would not vote Republican, as in voting for Ron Paul?...

edit on 1-8-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

I'm going to have to look at your points.

The fifth point. I disagree. The mess we are in is because of republicans repealing glass steagel.

I'll let George Carlin spell it all out.
Big Wealthy Businessmen.

Originally posted by Riposte

Haha, what? You would become a Republican if they became Democrats?

I honestly can't believe people on THIS forum still believe in fairy tales, like Republicans or Democrats can solve our problems. Yeah, voting for a corporately controlled political party, backed by international banking interests surely has our best interests at heart.

We are well and truly f-cked.

I never said that.
And you're correct.
There used to be a point in time when the Republican party was a conservative party.
Not anymore.
They are owned by rich businessmen.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Like what exactly are you talking about?

That opinionated rant.

Everything I wrote can be verified by anyone, and YOU should be doing the verifying not me...

Ok lets stop right there because this sounds like fun.
You are wrong.
I do not have to prove that, you have to, right?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Conservatives are not the problem, again you are wrong... You don't solve the problem by introducing MORE LEFTWING policies, the same kind of policies which created the problems we have today and which have formed socialist dictatorships...

You're right. Conservatives aren't the problem.
Problem is there are no conservatives left in the government.

Both sides of the aisle are being bought and paid for by special interests, lobbyists and bankers.