Why Haven't You Enlisted?

Originally posted by Shoktek
Would you feel fine if one of your children went off to Iraq and died?

I have no children, but I would be proud for any son I might have to serve his country. I would be devastated as any parent would, but having fought for freedom, I would know the true value of his sacrifice and I would pray for the strength to endure.

Hell, if you like war so much, re-enlist.

I addressed this in my first post. I am too old, way to old, to reenlist. I have never said that I like war and I have written quite frankly and graphically about my experience. You may research my posts on this subject any time.

We all know they're desperate for anyone to wear a uniform and shoot at iraqis. The military doesn't give a damn about you or anyone else.

Maybe not as desparate as you think and how do you know anything about the military? The truth is that everyone serves for the good of the service. That's why it is called "service."

I would be ashamed to say that I fought in that war, knowing perfectly well what was really going on over there.

I would be equally ashamed to have the likes of you serve in any unit I served with. How do you know what is happening in Iraq? CNN?

And the military is designed to strip people of their character, turning you into a programmed killing machine that always obeys orders. I'd rather keep my self respect and my life by refusing to join until I am really needed.

The military does not strip anyone of his character and no one can be turned into a programmed killing machine, even if one is expected to obey lawful orders.

I've heard "men" like you rationalize their cowardice for forty years and you can't fool me.

Originally posted by slank
With age and cynicism you would be very hard pressed to get me to willingly risk or give my life for some supposed cause of this nation.

One thing is for sure, slank. You are very cynical.

One thing is for shure GradyPhilpott, if you have no children, you have no room to speak you *** ****. Your nationalistict attitude is borderline nazi, it's better to think for yourself than to ignorantly fight a battle that is wrong for your countries sake.

-Attero

[edit on 15-10-2004 by Attero Auctorita]

[edit on 15-10-2004 by Attero Auctorita]

I truly applaud you, and to all the members that have served.

There is a camaraderie like none other...
There is no experience that can compare.
To dbates< JAG 436th Wing here...

A self-important social worker with no children who was in Vietnam but criticises today's young people for not enlisting themselves to die in a dubious war. wtf

I don't even knowwhere to begin there.

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
One thing is for shure GradyPhilpott, if you have no children, you have no room to speak you old fool. Your nationalistict attitude is borderline nazi, it's better to think for yourself than to ignorantly fight a battle that is wrong for your countries sake.
-Attero
[edit on 15-10-2004 by Attero Auctorita]

Dorothy...
ATS has a anger management program, perhaps you should enlist there
if the military is not for you.
somethings are best left unsaid...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I would be equally ashamed to have the likes of you serve in any unit I served with. How do you know what is happening in Iraq? CNN?

I've heard "men" like you rationalize their cowardice for forty years and you can't fool me.

Yea.... How do you know what is happening in Iraq? You have no better access to information on the war than I do. All I know is the government told us they were going there for the sole reason of recovering weapons of mass destruction. They went over there, people have died, we found no weapons, we are still there. More people are dying. I guess you fit in with the rest of the lot of simple minded robots in the infantry...you don't question a damn thing, and are happy having someone else tell you what is happening. Did you join the army because you didn't get into college?

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
One thing is for shure [sic] GradyPhilpott, if you have no children, you have no room to speak you old fool. Your nationalistict [sic] attitude is borderline nazi, it's better to think for yourself than to ignorantly fight a battle that is wrong for your countries [sic] sake.

-Attero

You shouldn't call a person a fool whom you do not know. I believe that such is at the very least against the terms of service. I answered a question posed to me in the best way I could.

There is nothing even remotely nazi-like about me and I would be very happy for you to point out anything that even remotely resembles naziism.

I just voted you "Way Above"!
You deseve it, wonderful thread!

Oh, I know who you are Grady, and what you are is wrong. I frankly don't give a damn if how I respond to you is against the terms of serivice. If you support the Iraq war you, my friend are a fool. It's a waste of American lives, it's a waste of resources (money). Having participated in Vietnam, i'd think you'd understand... Blindly supporting your country is nationalism, and you my friend are a nationalist, and nationalism was a nazi trait.. Surely you see this? Who knows?

-Attero

[edit on 15-10-2004 by Attero Auctorita]

Originally posted by Shoktek
All I know is the government told us they were going there for the sole reason of recovering weapons of mass destruction.

No one ever said this. The President was quite clear in his statement that we just did not have the luxury of finding out about a country's WMDs by waiting for one to go off in Manhatten. You have to listen to the source and not the propagandists. I have been listening since 9/11 and I never thought that Iraq was attacked solely because of WMDs.

They went over there, people have died, we found no weapons, we are still there. More people are dying. I guess you fit in with the rest of the lot of simple minded robots in the infantry...you don't question a damn thing, and are happy having someone else tell you what is happening.

Wars are terribly hard to fight and extremely easy to criticize. I have very well honed critical skills.

Did you join the army because you didn't get into college?

First of all, I did not join the army. I enlisted in the United States Marine Corps at age seventeen because I love my country and I would not be deprived the honor of serving in a war to defend the cause of freedom, not to mention the defining event of my generation. I have never regretted it.

Simple minded robots? You may peruse my profile, including my education here.

Originally posted by LL1
I truly applaud you, and to all the members that have served.

There is a camaraderie like none other...
There is no experience that can compare.
To dbates< JAG 436th Wing here...

436th...the airlift guys. I was in the 96th Civil Engineering. As an air conditioning specialist, I was one of the most popular people (Next to services guys that made cinnamon rolls) in Saudi Arabia. Everyone wanted an extra a/c for their building. I say building, but it was really temper tents and Harvest Bare equipment.

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
Blindly supporting your country is nationalism, and you my friend are a nationalist, and nationalism was a nazi trait.. Surely you see this? Or maybe you never went to college? Who knows?

-Attero

Thanks to LL1 and others who are supportive of my cause to deny ignorance.

Nationalism* is a trait of a lot of things. This is not a trait which I deny. Nazi is the term for National Socialists (Nationalsozialismus) who came to power in Germany during the 1930s. Socialism is anathema to me.

I'll put my educational credentials up against yours any time.

*"The feeling of belonging to a group united by common racial, linguistic, and historical ties, and usually identified with a particular territory." (Fontana Dictionary of Modern Thought, 409). The term usually includes feelings of pride in, and love of country. In pre-confederation Newfoundland, many nationalists saw confederation with Canada as a betrayal or loss of their country.
www.heritage.nf.ca/confederation/glossary.html

[edit on 04/10/15 by GradyPhilpott]

I email as many as I possibly can each day (8 hr time difference).
I was reponsible to train 75 squadrons, yes fliers.
Here's some across the "pond":

across the pond

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
No one ever said this. The President was quite clear in his statement that we just did not have the luxury of finding out about a country's WMDs by waiting for one to go off in Manhatten. You have to listen to the source and not the propagandists. I have been listening since 9/11 and I never thought that Iraq was attacked solely because of WMDs.

The only reason congress gave Bush the authority to keep troops in Iraq is based on his administration's "evidence" that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and intended to use them. I think it is quite clear at this point that weapons do not exist in Iraq anymore.

I am morally opposed to any war or killing of any people, and I believe it is only justifiable in self defense, or as an absolute last resort. You know full well that this war isn't a last resort, and it damn sure isn't "defending" anything. We attacked, we are the aggressors. There is some kind of private agenda being acted upon with the war, and terrorism is being used to spark fear and anger in everyone. The united states government has done a better job terrorizing us all since september 11th with all of their propaganda.

I also know many great men who have served in the military, and none of them ever felt the need to flaunt their record and service online in some meager attempt to impress people. Do you know the difference between serving your country and serving your government? You are quite familiar with the ladder, but serving your country it seems you know nothing of.

58,000 men died in vietnam for NOTHING. Surely you would have learned something from that war and how the government lied to the american public...those who fought in the war shouldn't be blamed, as it was a war of politics and run by corrupt men in power of our government. But if you think it was the right decision, and support more people dying for no reason in Iraq, then you are in the same crowd as the men sending you off to die.

[edit on 15-10-2004 by Shoktek]

Tanks or Bradles?

Engineers

Originally posted by Shoktek
I also know many great men who have served in the military, and none of them ever felt the need to flaunt their record and service online in some meager attempt to impress people. Do you know the difference between serving your country and serving your government? You are quite familiar with the ladder [sic], but serving your country it seems you know nothing of.

The great men whom you know, not withstanding, I am far from the only veteran to post his service credentials. Isn't that what a profile is for? I yam what I yam. Many people have asked about my service and it is posted for all to see. There's nothing particularly special about my service, but it was my contribution to freedom.

58,000 men died in vietnam for NOTHING. Surely you would have learned something from that war and how the government lied to the american public...those who fought in the war shouldn't be blamed, as it was a war of politics and run by corrupt men in power of our government. But if you think it was the right decision, and support more people dying for no reason in Iraq, then you are in the same crowd as the men sending you off to die.

58,000 men died in Vietnam to bring freedom to the South Vietnamese and to stanch the expansion of global communism. You are grossly misinformed and it is you who is the robot, because you spout with authority things about which you have no knowledge and you profess to possess wisdom that you do not possess.

Because of the sacrifices of men like those 58,000 who died in Vietnam, you have the right to spew your cowardly venom here on this site. As I said in my previous post, I enlisted in the Corps at seventeen and I volunteered for duty in Vietnam and I have never regretted it and I did not come home and lie about my service and fellow veterans for personal gain.

And I would say that dying for nothing is better than being born for nothing.

What did the man in your avatar die for?


[edit on 04/10/15 by GradyPhilpott]

Thought you might like this site, it's all the quotes the administration came out with to justify the war. I particularly like this one:

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.

Dick Cheney, Vice President
Speech to VFW National Convention
8/26/2002

lunaville.org...

edited to include link

[edit on 15-10-2004 by Chris McGee]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
58,000 men died in Vietnam to bring freedom to the South Vietnamese and to stanch the expansion of global communism. You are grossly misinformed and it is you who is the robot, because you spout with authority things about which you have no knowledge and you profess to possess wisdom that you do not possess.

Well I would respond to you with almost the exact same thing you just said, but it is obvious we just disagree and will not change our opinions...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Because of the sacrifices of men like those 58,000 who died in Vietnam, you have the right to spew your cowardly venom here on this site.

Yea, we tried to stomp out communism and failed. We got 58,000 wooden boxes in return for the effort, and the pentagon papers revealed the lies about how we knew we could never win the war in the first place. And yes, because of the vietnam war, I now possess the freedom to "spew" as I wish on this site as do you. Pleaaase...how did that war protect any freedoms of ours from being taken away?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
As I said in my previous post, I enlisted in the Corps at seventeen and I volunteered for duty in Vietnam and I have never regretted it and I did not come home and lie about my service and fellow veterans for personal gain.

Once again reiterating what you have stated time and time again. You are a true american hero. You bravely served our country. Is that what you want to hear each time you recite your little spiel of credentials?

Here are a few quotes from the sanctimonious who stood with Geoge Bush before the going got tough.

�We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -
--Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -
--Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -
--Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -
--Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. I will vote yes because I believe it is the best way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable." -
--Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

." In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad. In the 4 years since the inspectors, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaida members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

�It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein wiill continue to increase his capability to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East which, as we know all too well, affects American security.�
--Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

www.americandaily.com...