Where was God in Aurora?

reply to post by mythos



First off, I am not flaming you. I, however, know where exactly the poster is coming from:

**i am not Christian**

Oh, see- right there- to know how this poster felt is to be one for a while. The empty promises, the rude, nasty people, the fact one is just up from toilet scum (unless they pour cash into the church, of course), the despicable views on anyone not in their same social tier... I could go on for pages and HOURS. My own personal experiences with chistians would fill a small novel!

**if one finds solace in their faith in God, Buddha, Allah, the Divine Goddess, Brahma, the Great Spirit, etc. etc. etc. who are you to take that away from them...**

I do not see the post like that. I see it as the truth- a little in one's face, but still, the undeniable truth. Solace is one thing, but the Christian god provides NO solace, especially through his supposed damned people. Buddism at least lets you tackle problems with some measure of self examination and meditation, AND real help. Allah... Wont go there. The rest, I have no clue- but the thing is- this is about the CHRISTIAN God, who has shown absolutely NO interest, despite prayers, money, and all sorts of worship! Hell, I can get more action of a statue of Buddha by tossing some money at it- a 2 WEEK turnaround! Or... like that one fateful day at Epcot, where I rubbed about a dozen Buddha statue bellies and the *@(*#(*!! building got struck.... Still not sure what the implications are with that.

The short form is- the poster is NOT alone in their feelings of this.....deity. Christianity is a 2,000 year old scam (or whenever Constatine cobbled up the religion). Other religions' mileage may vary, of course. But to see how crap blows up, and these nasty people come out and scream about everything from "god's will" to it being "sin", and ALL of them supposedly right, and not one christian actually saying "wait...what?!" in regards to this deity's (continued) absence in situations like this, but OH SO PRESENT when one of these SOBs gets good parking spot, or a steal shopping, or that 42" tv so someone and his Sunday buddies can watch the game....

It's a lot to deal with, and this poster's response is *tame*- lemme tell you.

I'm not Christian, nor do I belong to any religion, but this is a futile argument because Christians are just going to say "Well, god gave people free will. There will always be good and evil deeds because we are allowed to make our own choices."

Originally posted by Xaphan
I'm not Christian, nor do I belong to any religion, but this is a futile argument because Christians are just going to say "Well, god gave people free will. There will always be good and evil deeds because we are allowed to make our own choices."

Oh, it's worse than that. I will try to sum up the christian view on "will"- free or other:

people should bend to god's will, which is not free will, but god gives us free will, and we should bend to god's will, but we are free to do our own will (and god will bend us to his will).... *pantpantpant* Or:

I wanted to date a (christian) girl. I am happy I got out of the religion- but that's beside the point. I was told....

God's will was for me to have a wife, and if this was her, then god would make her see it was his will that she date me (didnt happen)
HER free will was stopping god's will (!!!) which, at the same time, god's will could not be stopped (unless of course, it came down to brass tacks and my happiness and well being were in the mix)

I was trying to force my will on god- and god was trying to force his will on me- but I was fighting it with my free will

It finally tumbled out that god'a will was I was to be (suddenly) single (still), and that her will was not to bend to god's will, and I was just wanting god to be a genie.

Headache yet?

This is almost verbatim from CHRISTIANS' MOUTHS.

reply to post by yourmaker


Let's see. I'll play your lil game.

God jammed his gun so he couldn't use it anymore. God helped people get out of the theater. God healed most of the people who were shot. Kept them alive even though some were shot in vital organs. God didn't let the apartment explode. God let the killer get caught.

..........

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by BlueMule
Where was God in Aurora? You're no doubt referring to the kindergarten, exoteric, orthodox concept of God that Joe Sixpack refers to. When you have a grown-up concept of God to ponder, let me know.

Is that the one that allows all forms of suffering to learn lessons?

I'm not sure, please elaborate.

Like I said, when you have a grown-up concept of God let me know. You might start by studying comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism for a few years.

And you might start by trying some Self-Realization, and find out that studying ANY of that garbage is completely a waste of time.

Try a floatation tank, and then read some of your "books".

I'm only gonna try once, with an analogy, to rebut this ugly and distasteful OP.

Replace the whole "God's Will" with advice.

If God were a river guide, trying to teach you (in a different boat) how to navigate a river, He would call out instructions and advice, right?

You are free to take his advice or ignore it, listen or not. The results of your actions can put you on a good line when rapids come along, or pin you in the trees or against a boulder. Is it the guide's fault you didn't listen?

If the guide were to rush up and pull your boat out every time there was a problem, you would never learn anything except that the guide would bail you out every time.

From a religious point of view, this life is a time of trial (learning) for mankind. It is not the end of our existence, but an important event along an infinite timeline. No one makes it out alive, but how we live while we are here is what matters. If God were to intervene every time something bad happens there would be no trial, no spiritual growth...only a reliance upon God to keep the peace.

In the last moments of those men in the theater who died shielding their loved ones the culmination of how they lived became apparent. We all die, but how many of us will die with that kind of honor and love?

reply to post by wylekat



though i understand the backlash against the Dogmatic, Fundementalist aspects of Christianity very much so... i still must assert that Spirituality, in all its forms (including the Abrahamic traditions) is far too complex a topic to write off wholesale, especially when it is used to help cope with grief.

must the cold, harsh glare of the Logical mind neuter any & all forms of mysticism from our Human Experience?

Christianity, when followed well, produces people like Desmond Tutu, and Mother Theresa. saintly folk who have done more for this world then my lazy a$$ can ever hope to achieve. if these folk are inspired by the Story of Christ, then who am i to say poo?

again, i am not a Christian. in fact... i am Wiccan, a tradition whose ancestors where persecuted by Christians, and too many aspects of that creed unnerve me (the fact that God is a man & a he irks me to no end), and yet, there are those who find solace and genuine inspiration in the compassion that Christ teaches. i say, blessed be on them.

and Woe to those who abuse Spirituality for their own manipulative gains.


PS check out my posts on other threads. you will find i am usually first in line to call an Evangelist to task... primarily because they are being absolutist in their statements. most atheists are absolutists as well, a thing that irks me almost as much as those who propose that God is a white dude with a white beard that doesn't like gay people.

anyhow... Goddess Bless.

reply to post by yourmaker


Do you feel better now that's out of your system? Spouting off like you actually know something about reality. Just another internet atheist!

Is is just me or does anyone else accept full responsibility for what happens in their lives?

I am agnostic with a strong belief in the spiritual and I take full responsibility for my life and what happens in it.

I do not believe in coincidences and that is my driving force to accept responsibility for the events I experience.

Random guy walks in and starts shooting (exercising his free will) while I am sitting there, I am responsible for being there. God didn't send me the movie theater, I did and it is now my responsibility to survive.

I wake up with a great sense of love and peace and I take on the day with a positive and happy attitude, God didn't make me feel that way, I did. I meditated, I exercised, I maintained a healthy diet and I feel good.

I don't think this event or any other is valid to prove or disprove God. I don't even think it is valid to use it as a question of Gods existence.

Saving man from himself is not God's department.

reply to post by ReadyPower


Let's blame everyone or anything other than those responsible for bad behavior out of our ignorance. Let's continue to let evil actions thrive and reject everything that we don't understand in our arrogance and delusional pride. Let's continue to turn a blind eye to those who lie, cheat, steal and kill and then give those same people positions of power for their uncanny ability to destroy all those who oppose them. When we do that...lets again cry and take no responsibility for how we directly and indirectly contributed to all the suffering in this world...let's just continue to be arrogant in our misguided and blind judgement...it's been doing wonders so far.

Originally posted by blamethegreys
I'm only gonna try once, with an analogy, to rebut this ugly and distasteful OP.

Replace the whole "God's Will" with advice.

If God were a river guide, trying to teach you (in a different boat) how to navigate a river, He would call out instructions and advice, right?

You are free to take his advice or ignore it, listen or not. The results of your actions can put you on a good line when rapids come along, or pin you in the trees or against a boulder. Is it the guide's fault you didn't listen?

If the guide were to rush up and pull your boat out every time there was a problem, you would never learn anything except that the guide would bail you out every time.

From a religious point of view, this life is a time of trial (learning) for mankind. It is not the end of our existence, but an important event along an infinite timeline. No one makes it out alive, but how we live while we are here is what matters. If God were to intervene every time something bad happens there would be no trial, no spiritual growth...only a reliance upon God to keep the peace.

In the last moments of those men in the theater who died shielding their loved ones the culmination of how they lived became apparent. We all die, but how many of us will die with that kind of honor and love?

Too bad the boat is leaky, there's piranha in the water, It's storming, and god thinks we're all on a merry jog thru the Alaskan WIlderness, INSTEAD OF IN A FREAKING BOAT!

Life SUCKS out here in the wasteland of poverty and racism, lemme tell you! But who listens to us po folk. Not the well to do believer, that is for SURE.

Originally posted by mythos
reply to post by wylekat

 

though i understand the backlash against the Dogmatic, Fundementalist aspects of Christianity very much so... i still must assert that Spirituality, in all its forms (including the Abrahamic traditions) is far too complex a topic to write off wholesale, especially when it is used to help cope with grief.

must the cold, harsh glare of the Logical mind neuter any & all forms of mysticism from our Human Experience?

Christianity, when followed well, produces people like Desmond Tutu, and Mother Theresa. saintly folk who have done more for this world then my lazy a$$ can ever hope to achieve. if these folk are inspired by the Story of Christ, then who am i to say poo?

again, i am not a Christian. in fact... i am Wiccan, a tradition whose ancestors where persecuted by Christians, and too many aspects of that creed unnerve me (the fact that God is a man & a he irks me to no end), and yet, there are those who find solace and genuine inspiration in the compassion that Christ teaches. i say, blessed be on them.

and Woe to those who abuse Spirituality for their own manipulative gains.


PS check out my posts on other threads. you will find i am usually first in line to call an Evangelist to task... primarily because they are being absolutist in their statements. most atheists are absolutists as well, a thing that irks me almost as much as those who propose that God is a white dude with a white beard that doesn't like gay people.

anyhow... Goddess Bless.

Well, like I said- *my experiences*. NONE of them have been any less than disappointing at best. Traumatic with long lasting results at worst. As for spirituality- in my case, I got passed over in regards to it. I have had a few *MAJOR* things happen: Witness to a ghost battle (It registered when I made a phone call in regards to it- Yes, the person on the other end heard the racket, and asked "what the hell IS that?!"). A grapefruit sized ball of light that went by me at 15-20 feet, went into the woods, and went out. That's about it. Beyond that, I am on my own (besides my g/f) on this planet. No guidance from beyond, no messages, nada. And it isnt from not being receptive, either! My antenna have been out for a long, long time. I quit using them after a string of bad church experiences that'd make a rock burst into tears.

I can predict people and events to some extent, but I am sure it's because I seem to retain info like a sponge. It's like I know movie/ tv plots and can predict what will happen next. Nothing more than info retrieval on some sub conscious level. Yes. I am a concrete block. I am probably as sensitive as one.

But- I do okay.

As for evangelists? I'd like to horsewhip the lot of them. With barbed wire. Like I said- years of trauma... I consider them ALL liars.

We kicked God out of this country a long time ago. We're just getting what we deserve for it.

reply to post by yourmaker


This is stupid.
God isnt "there" to protect everyone and make sure your lives are perfect.Death and loss of Love is SOOOOOO much smaller in the grande scheme of things.
"Where was God when these horrible things happened bleh bleh bleh" God was the one doing those atrocities.God does good.God does evil.PLEASE learn Polarity of the Universe and understand..God is not some Positive Deity there to make sure we never experience the horrors of negativity.
Again.this thread is stupid.

Originally posted by ReadyPower
What I find annoying is how the religious always 'thank god' for anything good happening, then something like the shootings occurs.. and instead of blaming god they just say "Oh I will keep you in my prayers"
Um, hello... you don't think ANY of the people killed or injured prayed for safety for them and their families? Didn't do much good.

This is the type of tripe that comes from folks who simply don't understand the religious experience.

Originally posted by wylekat

Too bad the boat is leaky, there's piranha in the water, It's storming, and god thinks we're all on a merry jog thru the Alaskan WIlderness, INSTEAD OF IN A FREAKING BOAT!

Life SUCKS out here in the wasteland of poverty and racism, lemme tell you! But who listens to us po folk. Not the well to do believer, that is for SURE.

You assume alot...I guess you can tell me about the wasteland of racism, but I'm well acquainted with poverty! And pssst! Here's a secret: Whatever your belief system, happiness is found when you learn to find the positive in life rather than the negative!

reply to post by HunkaHunka


No,you religious folk blame Satan for everything bad,and praise God for everything good.
How childish.

Dear All Atheists:

I hope you realize that you utilize the same logical fallacies as those whom you argue against.

Just sayin'!

What you've yet to realize is the brilliance of what was done.

If you want your creation to understand, truly. What kind of realization would you come to if you nothing you did was on your own.

Its because we don't understand the true purpose, but if theres one thing I've learned is that the Bible has an answer for everything.

Colossians 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,


Its exactly why your given "signs" in the natural. Why do you think God is called the Great Teacher.

Theres a war going on in the spirit.

Either god is all powerful all knowing or he is not god - and if he is all powerful all knowing than obviously we don't have free choice because he already knows what we are going to do since the beginning of time.

God is a term I use for the force of creation - I dont know what that is and so far no one I have ever met or heard of does either. In life I follow the golden rule because it makes sense and I believe comes from thousands of years of evolution, that is my religion.