Where was God in Aurora?

reply to post by yourmaker


thank you for your civilized response.

i agree... when God is hyper defined by any one culture (in this case, the personified JC, son of the White Bearded male patriarch) then i too have issue. as i said in my prior post, Spirituality & Faith is much too complex a topic to siphon down to any one cultures absolutist perspective.

i suppose my reaction was that the eternal debate of the Existance of God, and in what form this Eternal Presence may take, though a healthy and a necessary conversation, may not be healthy in juxtaposition to the madness at Aurora.

anyhow... thanks again for the civilized response. we may have divergent perspectives, but civility is most respected.


PS i did prefer KotSK Pt 2 in my day. the riff off of "Where Eagle's Dare", if i recall, was ludicrous.

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by BlueMule
Where was God in Aurora? You're no doubt referring to the kindergarten, exoteric, orthodox concept of God that Joe Sixpack refers to. When you have a grown-up concept of God to ponder, let me know.

Is that the one that allows all forms of suffering to learn lessons?

I'm not sure, please elaborate.

You have been contaminated with a human structural concept of some heirarchy where there is a master and some slaves or children all playing in a sandbox. Unfortunate and you have some work to undo that.

God gave humans free will. He is not to intervene every time murder happens. Which must be pretty much every minute.

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
With countless people starving to death , being tortured or living day by day in total poverty for their entire lives i guess that God might have had more important places to be than in a movie theater in one of the world most wealthy country's when that happened.

edit on 29-7-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

God is supposed to be all-knowing and all-powerful, able to see everything and everyone in the same moment?
No?..

Didn't he create the event itself? (Assuming he or it were real)

God gave us free will. Some of us use it poorly.
2ne

reply to post by yourmaker


PS... you stated that "when Logic kicks in, your Atheist perspective wins out" or something to that effect.

Logic is the Domain of one half of your brain. the intuitive creative is the Domain of the other. we are hard wired for Mystical experiences that defy Logic.

Logic... though a highly useful tool, is not the only means of interpreting the Infinite.

Rejoice in your freewill, O humanity!
When it suits your cause, I'm blessed. When it doesn't, it is cursed.
Am I now responsible for the free choices that you choose to make on a daily basis?
Do you want free will or slavery?
Each person is accountable for their own actions.
If you believe I exist, then one day ALL HUMANITY will stand before Me and give account of their actions.
If you don't believe I exist, and all you have to live for is NOW...who are you to judge or determine the actions of any individual on this planet that chooses to exercise his or he free will as they so choose?
So you think it's BAD/EVIL/WRONG/IMMORAL?
What is your personal/collective grade for such an assessment? And what if you're wrong?
If this life is all there is (no judgement, no accountability, no 'karma' in death') why are you striving for a sense of justice that doesn't exist, or has no long term sense of reciprocation?
Do you HONESTLY believe there is some collective, universal code of right and wrong that exists within the collective psyche of all humanity that we MUST bide by?
Sounds a bit religious to me.
And I AM not religious.

Originally posted by ReadyPower
What I find annoying is how the religious always 'thank god' for anything good happening, then something like the shootings occurs.. and instead of blaming god they just say "Oh I will keep you in my prayers"
Um, hello... you don't think ANY of the people killed or injured prayed for safety for them and their families? Didn't do much good.

good point, that is one of the things that worries about religion.

their logic and teachings to other followers teach that all the good things in the world that happen are due to their god, all the bad things that happen are because of the none believers or opposing religions. it's scary logic and guarantees wars and hate towards other groups of people for eternity while ever religion is around.

and it ain't going away anytime soon.

Yes I too dislike the use of thanking God for good things unless of course it is a simple thanks for existing to experience the moment and not the moment itself which I feel is random. Free will right, this means all actions leading to the future are determinate by us and us alone, we influence each other and in that sense we are all connected. Which way will you be influenced or do you feel to be absolutely independent which I feel is a ridiculous statement.

Dear God,

I have your number on speed dial, and call often, but I always get your service. I've left messages, but you have yet to return my calls.

I just figured you were out playing golf with your archangels, leaving the devil in charge, you know like you did in the Garden of Eden, and left your cell phone on your desk. I know someone left the gates of Hell open while you were out, because the churches are full of demons. and a they all go Denny's afterwards and stiff their waitresses, often faking them out with these Christian "tracks" that look like money.

So, I just wanted to say thanks for clearing things up, and please check your messages!

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by BlueMule
Where was God in Aurora? You're no doubt referring to the kindergarten, exoteric, orthodox concept of God that Joe Sixpack refers to. When you have a grown-up concept of God to ponder, let me know.

Is that the one that allows all forms of suffering to learn lessons?

I'm not sure, please elaborate.

Emphasis is mine, because I'm interested in finding out exactly which lesson you think god tried to teach through these shootings?
It makes no sense to go pointing fingers at god, when he is created in man's own image.

reply to post by windword


i think you got your lines crossed.

reply to post by ReadyPower


Why do the righteous suffer?

This is the fundamental question asked in the Book of Job. You are mistaken that "the religious" only praise God when good things happen, and the lesson of Job is that God should be praised regardless of what happens.

“Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord”

~Job 1:21,22~

“Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?”

~Job 2:9~

reply to post by yourmaker


Most excellent view you have there, but there is an alternative view that the westboro baptist church has given to explain why god did this to those poor lambs.

Myself, I believe that god sat there and watched his instrument (or angel if you will) do his work.
I do not believe in accidents or coincidents, all is going according to plan.
As soon as I have fulfilled my purpose, I'll be onto my next assignment too I'm sure.
I wanna come back as a fly for a short assignment!

If there was a God...why the hell should he/she/it step in when it is us who are destroying one another.

If that happened...then we wouldn't learn from mistakes...we would be making them time and time again...saying oh..well...God will fix it...so who cares...

Originally posted by ReadyPower
What I find annoying is how the religious always 'thank god' for anything good happening, then something like the shootings occurs.. and instead of blaming god they just say "Oh I will keep you in my prayers"
Um, hello... you don't think ANY of the people killed or injured prayed for safety for them and their families? Didn't do much good.

You know, not all in that theatre died, the people in the next theatres over lived and he could have been in those rooms too.
I'm sure these folks had their prayers answered, or so they think.
I can see the quote now, "I heard the shooting and saw the shooter and all of the people dying so I fell to the ground and prayed, just then his gun jammed and he ran away"!!
IT'S A MIRACLE!!!! No it was a mechanical malfunction due to ignorance of the equipment...

reply to post by yourmaker


hmm..how about god can be in all places but his attention might not be directed at all places at the same time.

I mean let face it the christian god only ever showed up in one small area of the world (middle east) during the Biblical times. There's no record of him showing up in Europe etc..

reply to post by yourmaker


If he were there? You would just implicate him. What an embarrassment this thread is ?

reply to post by watcher3339

God gave us free will. Some of us use it poorly.

Free will indeed.
Obviously god knows how it started as he/she started it correct?
I believe god knows how it ends too.
God knows how all of the intricate little pieces will fit together along the way too, otherwise he/she is NOT all powerful.
Free will indeed, or the illusion of.
My god knows everything, maybe my god is more powerful than yours?

Taken from CNN comments section, page 1 from reader "Collin"

Wow Collin! Richard Dawkins could have used your help on "The O'rielly Factor". He got his butt kicked.

reply to post by mythos


Most atheists ARE agnostics.

That being said I tend to agree with you, using a tragedy like this is something that the religious typically do. For instance there was a supposed "angelic visit" to the Aurora victims vigil.

Photo

Since this photo emerged it's been proved a photoshop hoax, and a very unimpressive one given the BARELY visible nature of the "angel". I find it ironic that angels always seem to show up after failing to prevent a tragedy. Just a few weeks ago I remember an article about a woman who claimed to see angels at the crash site of Flight 93. Why exactly would angels, who are meant to have charge over us, lest we cast our foot upon a stone (paraphrased from Psalm 91), be showing up to these places? To lament over what a horrible job they are doing protecting humanity?

Most of the reaction I see from atheists in these sorts of tragic events is a knee-jerk response to the stupidity they see. For example nearly every time a town is all but destroyed by a tornado you see quotes from survivors about how "lucky" they are to be alive and about how God simply MUST have been watching over them....... despite the fact their homes were destroyed and lives threatened by a tornado. So what about the people that died in the tornado? Or the homes that were decimated? Is it likely that a God who could have easily stopped the tornado altogether let it carve a wide swath of destruction before batting aside at the last second to protect just you and your family?

I can understand knee jerk reactions, even from my fellow atheists but if I had my way NEITHER side of the debate would attempt to capitalize on these sorts of tragedies. Honestly isn't the existence or non-existence of a God irrelevant to the facts of what happened and the impact on people's lives?