Waco Texas, What happened there in 1993? Documentary from 2011 explains the horrible incident..

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Hillarie

 

One of the most stunning statistics I gathered in my research on this matter and is available on one of the primary source links I have above, was the number of rounds of ammunition recovered.

In total they removed 300,000 rounds of ammunition from the property. The majority of that came from the bunker where the weapons were described like sea shells on a beach for the number of them. If anyone might think this true arsenal could have been planted, a number of the weapons were melted into the bodies on and around them.

Whatever else is true and however this all happened, considering the Branch Davidians unarmed is just ignoring the facts. Heck....I'm really confused by that when the opening raid showed a very serious two way firefight supported by 911 phone calls nearly deafened by the gunfire inside going out. It's possible ONE ATF Agent was killed by friendly fire on the roof during that first raid, by a report I read this afternoon but the other 3 ATF fatals weren't from ATF guns. They gave as good as they got that first exchange, all things considered.

Yes, that's right; an ATF was killed by friendly fire. There was actually a cease-fire so that the injured agents could be removed and taken to safety.

Where were the fire trucks when the fires broke out? They were being held back, allegedly because there was still gunfire, but there were witnesses who said agents came out of their tanks to watch the fire burn, meaning the firing had stopped.

To me, because they deliberately held back the fire trucks, they let the people burn inside. That's why I blame the ATF and rescue teams for this whole fiasco.

reply to post by texasgirl

300,000 rounds of ammunition and a raging fire makes for an enormous hazard to anyone close enough to fight the fire. I'd read the details of the fire trucks and I do think that was wrong to hold them clear back at the outer checkpoint as it seemed to read in the formal report on this. They could have immediately let them up to the inner line and minimized time to get water on. The accounts almost sounded like the outer checkpoint was not expecting their arrival and was confused or something.

Although in the hindsight of knowledge for what seems to have actually happened, what would have been gained? The fire burned extremely fast for the damage it did and the way the bodies were all found makes me wonder if the spray from a distance would have saved anyone.

Yeah, I read about the agents getting out. I seem to recall the descriptions of the people watching in Whitcomb's book and again in the trial material which links go to parts of in an earlier post I made on this thread. You see this behavior as evil by the way you say it, As if this was amusing or entertaining? Perhaps I read you wrong. I'd hope so. The context I read this being in was utter shock and horror of what was happening and the fact no one did run out at the last minute. These aren't cloned monsters. Even agents have wives and children they tuck in at night and kiss goodnight. They were, as I'd read it, as horrified as the news people I recall reporting it at the time.

After watching Waco:rules of engagement and seeing footage of the FBI continually stating that no federal agents fired any rounds into the compound and seeing the infared footage which proves rounds were fired into the compound I began thinking that the FBI allowed the Klu klux klan members that offered to help to fire upon the branch Davidians. Even though the Government had allowed tanks to be used I thought It goes against all morals to use actual military troops on their own people, however after watching Waco: a new revelation and hearing convincing testimony from CIA, FBI and military operatives that the govt. had at least 10 what were described as observers on the ground which most likely were special forces just blew my mind and paints a pretty picture of whats been happening in the States and also makes clear why there is now so much fear of the authorities, if there were cover-ups or actual black opps of situations like Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma and 9/11 and those responsible keep getting away with what could only be considered mass murder, the only resolution I see to stop this from ever happening again is to lynch any person who wishes to impose authority over another.
Plainly meaning the only solution is anarchy, which in it self could seem to quite scary as well.

Hard to truly express any valid solution without creating another fire if you know what i mean.

I see the statements I made about lynching and doing so is hypocritical as that would be imposing another kind of authority.

I only wish money and power wouldn't corrupt so people could have honest and decent leadership or Government if they wish.

I personally don't want any kind of Govt, or leadership as I wish to keep to myself and not impose my ways on anyone, not hurt anyone or damage anyone's lifestyle as long as it does not impose on mine and if it did I would choose not to fight but only to defend if I have something that I love like my two Rotties, however without them or family and friends I would gladly die to allow others to live freely as they choose.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I guess 'blame' is too strong a word to use. I don't think they watched and were entertained by it, not by a long shot. But someone mentioned blaming David Koresh for this disaster and I don't really agree with that. I guess there's blame to go all around, including Janet Reno. (And, yes, she took responsibility for it)

I doubt we will find out what really happened with Waco and who's ultimately to blame for it. This is a good thread and your posts are thought-provoking.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Nice you have taken the time to re-evaluate things, as most are too brain dead to even try and think for themselves. I do have a small issue, though, and that is clearly and, IMHO, undeniable evidence presented in Waco:Rules Of Engagement that the feebs fired into the compound. The FLIR recordings made from the helicopters are hard to deny, if they can be denied. I cannot say what happened inside with any reasonable certainty but they murdered those people that were not already dead. I have doubts that the people inside were killed by their brethren but I have no proof except what I have seen, and what I have seen is not flattering to the government.

To boot, the hostage negotiators were a doinks, to say the least, they refused to listen to what the Branch Davidians were saying and this all could have ended with no bloodshed if they had just listened. Unfortunately, they didn't and those "wackos" had to die.

In my "old" age I've gotten so jaded I'm at the point where I have no respect for any LEO of any kind anymore. Things like this(and many others over the years, like getting arrested recently for a non-violent victimless "crime" by a out of control brainwashed asshole of a pig that has already made my life more of a hell than it already was) have made me realize that my government would rather have me dead than alive and "free". Land of the free, yadda yadda blah blah blah my ass. Bunch of evil bastards in control. This world could be a hell of a lot better without them and the crap they force (brainwash?) us into.

Don't like the government? Don't worry, they'll just up and kill you. Problem solved.

reply to post by morder1


Time to talk about this again.

Originally posted by Tianmat
reply to post by morder1

 

Time to talk about this again.

Waco and Ruby Ridge should be talked out about everyday.

Government atrocities such as broiling a bunch of children to death shouldnt be forgotten for a year, a month, a day or a minute. They did it before they're doing it right now and they'll continue doing it.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Impossible to write on the forum here..I get timed out all the time..

reply to post by Tianmat


You are right, but these ones seem to be taking their revenge...
David Koresh died on april 18 1993....in Waco

Several people are already speculating on this out here on european off-mainstream websites..but I see that no one on ATS is mentioning it...Strange, no?

When it comes to Waco, no one here knows the truth, and no one ever will. Why? Because the FBI and others will have done everything possible to destroy evidence, plant evidence, alter facts and clear their names of all responsibility. We've seen it happen in so many tragedies. It happens in every country where abuse of power, corruption, failures and excessive violence from the state is witnessed.

There is NO CHANCE IN HELL that the truth ever got out of there.

But one thing is true and it happened for all to see - excessive force was used on a compound where children and innocent people were at risk. They knew there were kids in there, and they used extreme violence against every moving figure.

That is NOT up for debate, that is historical fact. This cannot be denied, and no one can say otherwise.