Obama backs race-based school discipline policies

reply to post by xuenchen


Thanks xue!

I remember reading that first quote but it didnt expand far enough to gather any info. Thanks for finding the second one. I missed that one and it seems more on par.

It does still seem vague but I can at least see their possible interpretation. I would need more info. Right now it does seem to be getting sensationalized compared to what the order actually states.

If it truly does mean what is being alleged then that is flat out wrong in my opinion. I just need more details.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Thanks xue!

I remember reading that first quote but it didnt expand far enough to gather any info. Thanks for finding the second one. I missed that one and it seems more on par.

It does still seem vague but I can at least see their possible interpretation. I would need more info. Right now it does seem to be getting sensationalized compared to what the order actually states.

If it truly does mean what is being alleged then that is flat out wrong in my opinion. I just need more details.

edit on 7/28/2012 by AshleyD because: (no reason given)

I think common sense can suffice that this interpretation does not represent the truth.
The government would be open to and subject to tremendous law suits on such a level
that the awards would bankrupt the government and school system. Such a development
would put teachers and administrators in a very legally precarious position as well.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by Tw0Sides

 

Well most inner-city schools are in a deficit and reduced all of their classes. Why are they in a deficit? Redlining, again banks created the ghettos.

So, yes, some money will help.

All of the books I had were 20+ years old and missing pages, there weren't enough desks.. student had to share desks or stand. Students had to share books, you couldn't take them home because there weren't enough. The ceiling tiles would routinely fall on students. Teachers couldn't give worksheets because the school didn't have enough paper. The classes were huge and difficult to mange because teacher lay offs. And I could go on and on.

Then I moved and went to a suburban school. I couldn't believe it was real, it was like I went to another country, literally.

I've seen stories about schools in third world countries that have it much worse than those, yet the students are hard working and learn because they desperately want to be there, realizing what education can offer them. It's not the schools and the quality of their materials, then; it's the desire of the students to learn. If every one of the students in those low performing inner city schools wanted to learn, you would not be able to stop them.

The key is motivation. How do you get the kids to WANT to learn?

Skin color has nothing to do with intelligence or behavior, it is simply a means related to survival (in regards to DNA] to deal with environmental conditions. Take for example the size of a person nose, the warmer the climate, the larger a nose needs to be. To take in the same amount of oxygen as compared to colder environments where oxygen molecules are closer together. In general African Americans constitute 10 percent of the US population and despite that, they are the highest percentage in American prisons.

Clearly there is an absurdity apparent, how is it possible that 36 million out of 313 million people are a majority in prisons? Especially given that the genome project identified skin color are one of the more irrelevant factors in the human condition (in relation to DNA components). There is absolutely no reason to suggest that simply based upon physical structure, that blacks should behave worst or for that matter better than any other race.


It must relate to how certain people are treated.....

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by namehere

Example: lets say ten blacks get punished for misbehavior, now say five whites misbehave but 10 get punished to make it "equal".

How can you not see an issue here and sit there criticizing others reading comprehension?

Provide proof for you assertion, besides a quote from a politically motivated blogger.

Lets examine this

reply to post by AshleyD

Did you miss my post in which I directly quote the order and give a reason as it why it bothers me?

reply to post by AshleyD

"...this new Initiative's focus on improving all the sequential levels of education will produce a more effective educational continuum for all African American students."
While this is no doubt an honorable focus, I find it disheartening that the emphasis is on a single group of African American students as opposed to ALL American students. I think that if you work on improving schools for All students, possibly in ways I suggested before, you could improve everyone's education opportunities. As I also stated before, this order is a great example of what "social justice" looks like.

reply to post by glasshouse


Thanks hon. I must have missed it but I just read it after you posted again. I definitely agree with what you state. I feel we should be doing things to help any student in need and not just one group.

I don't understand our government, media, and education system sometimes. On one hand were expected to be virtually color blind all the while having the systems shove it into our face every chance they get to stir up strife.

I wish the concept of racial differences didn't even exist in the human conscious. So much agony and fighting would go away. I don't mind it going away but it's hard when we have constant reminders that were all boxed into classifications of color, guilt, resentment, and fear.

reply to post by Kashai
in a philosophical discussion, i might tend to agree with you, however, reality has shown the opposite over the last 40yrs or so.

minority segments of the population have been specifically catered to in a variety of support programs aimed at improving education, sustenance and employment.
clearly, this isn't working so well. Obama would be a good example.

and, if we use Obama in this example, how was he treated so much more or less special as to have achieved the position of POTUS ??

unless, you are suggesting that we've bent over backwards sooooo far that the natural contraction is about to smack us upside the head.

It looks like there may be a "disclaimer" of sorts.

All subject to "Official" interpretation and intent by the (appointed) "Administrators" and "Directors" of course.


Sec. 2, (c), (3)

(3) The Initiative's Executive Director may establish subgroups of the Working Group to focus on different aspects of the educational system (such as early childhood education, K-12 education, higher education (including HBCUs and PBIs), career and technical education, adult education, or correctional education and reengagement) or educational challenges facing particular populations of African Americans (such as young men, disconnected or out-of-school youth, individuals with disabilities, children identified as gifted and talented, single-parent households, or adults already in the workforce).

(d) Administration. The Department shall provide funding and administrative support for the Initiative and the Working Group, to the extent permitted by law and within existing appropriations. To the extent permitted by law, other agencies and offices represented on the Working Group may detail personnel to the Initiative, to assist the Department in meeting the objectives of this order.

(e) Collaboration Among White House Initiatives. The Initiative may collaborate with the White House Initiatives on American Indian and Alaska Native Education, Educational Excellence for Hispanics, Asian-American and Pacific Islanders, and (consistent with section 3(c) of this order) Historically Black Colleges and Universities, whenever appropriate in light of their shared objectives.

here's the "scary" part;

(1) The Commission shall consist of not more than 25 members appointed by the President. The President shall designate one member of the Commission to serve as Chair. The Executive Director of the Initiative shall also serve as the Executive Director of the Commission and administer the work of the Commission. The Chair of the Commission shall work with the Executive Director to convene regular meetings of the Commission, determine its agenda, and direct its work, consistent with this order.

reply to post by Honor93

got any proof of this ??

Yeah, the Virginia slave codes put Africans at a lesser humans than whites. Then it spread.

Stricter slave codes emerged in Virginia after Bacon’s Rebellion in 1676, when wealthy planters decided to abolish indentured servitude and establish permanent slavery for Africans, fearing that class conflict would undermine their tobacco plantation holdings. They gradually eliminated the importation of indentured servants from England in favor of enslaved Africans.

Black slaves were prohibited from carrying firearms by a 1639 Virginia law, which prescribed 20 lashes for violations of the statute. There was one exception: with his master’s permission, a slave could bear firearms to defend against Indian raids

Maryland legalized slavery in 1663 and attempted to pass a law that would enslave free blacks and require that all blacks be slaves regardless of their mother’s status; in the following year, Maryland punished marriage between a white woman and a slave

A 1676 law prohibited free blacks from having white servants.

Virginia passed two acts in 1682 that combined Native Americans and Africans into one category as “negroes and other slaves.”

As early as 1630, laws regulating relations between whites and blacks appeared on the statute books, including such penalties as a whipping before an assembly of slaves for a white man who had sex with a black woman

Pennsylvania banned the importation of slaves in 1712. That same year New York prohibited blacks from owning property.

www.understandingrace.org...

You're the one that doesn't know history.

And the civil war was fought for a multitude of reasons, slavery was one of them. Go read the deceleration of secessions. That thread is full of southern apologists that do not understand history and repeat talking points they've read and never researched.

The northern powers didn't want the southern plantation owners to be able to gain enough power to control the country.

The Slave Power (often called the "Slaveocracy") was a term used in the United States ca. 1840-1865 to denounce the political power of the slaveholding class in the South. The argument was that this small group of rich men had seized political control of their own states and was trying to take over the national government in illegitimate fashion to use it to expand and protect slavery.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by PvtHudson
His July 26 executive order established a government panel to promote “a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools.”

Ah! Do you understand why the first black president of the United States is a foreigner?

Why is it so difficult for many people to accept that the President is black?

It is very simple. His early schooling was outside the US school system. So, he was unaffected by the psychological damage all black kids experience in their formative years.

Because he didn't understand that blacks are not supposed to succeed, and are treated as such, he did.

He only discovered that blacks were considered lesser persons when he came back to the US and studied in his later life. But, by then, his belief in himself was already formed. He believed he could be anything, even the President of the United States, so he became the president. It is quite strange, if you think of it, that America could not produce a home grown black president, with the same school system that educates whites.So, America had to pick an Indonesian educated black to put in the White House instead.

This is extremely odd.

I think the President "sees" something that many people cannot see, and is attempting to fix that situation.

He is uniquely qualified to understand why it is that he succeeded when no other black in America could.

Originally posted by Vitruvian
and the WHITES are directly responsible because THEY THEMSELVES have also inherited the evil legacy of SLAVERY.............Its PAYBACK TIME like it or not.

I am white BTW and I am willing to face the responsibility for what has happened in America because of my inheritance – so its about time I faced up to that awful reality………..so might the rest of you smug whites.

edit on 28-7-2012 by Vitruvian because: editing

So are you saying that you are bigoted, a traitor, and a hypocrite or that you are a martyr trying to score brownie points with god? This is what more than half a century of propaganda, lies, and historical omission has created. Did it ever occur to you that this is a deliberate effort being used to create the OPPOSITE result from what you are hoping? We have only to view history with a vague understanding to see the bloody mess that has been left by the deliberate manipulation of people.

Antonio Gramsci (1891-1937), Marxist intellectual and politician, “believed that it was necessary first to delegitimize the dominant belief systems of the predominant groups and to create a “counter-hegemony” (i.e., a new system of values for the subordinate groups) before the marginalized could be empowered. Moreover, because hegemonic values permeate all spheres of civil society — schools, churches, the media, voluntary associations — civil society itself, he argued, is the great battleground in the struggle for hegemony, the “war of position.” From this point, too, followed a corollary for which Gramsci should be known (and which is echoed in the feminist slogan) — that all life is “political.” Thus, private life, the work place, religion, philosophy, art, and literature, and civil society, in general, are contested battlegrounds in the struggle to achieve societal transformation.” This, according to Fonte, “is the very core of the Gramscian-Hegelian world view — group-based morality, or the idea that what is moral is what serves the interests of “oppressed” or “marginalized” ethnic, racial, and gender groups.”

reply to post by Vitruvian



All well and good, but in all honestly, what do you want? The government to hand out checks to every African American? How much should be given? For how long should they be compensated? (and if you haven't noticed, the world is in a bit of a fiscal crisis at the moment)

I understand that slavery has put the African American community where it is today but honestly, time to acknowledge that and put it behind you. Time for African Americans to stop looking for reparations and start working to improve themselves and their community. No one else is going to do it for you, your community has to band together and face your own problems....regardless of who is at fault.

*sighs*

Obama and law makers solution to problems seems to be, make it worse.

How is this any different from blatant discrimination? Why not correct the problem by simply sending disruptive students.. home! Period. Fire up that cheese wagon and send the kid home

But it's not the childs fault, that's right i said it. Where are the adults in those bad ass kids life? If their parents are willing to be.. parents then we wouldn't have this problem, and therein lies the problem. What's momma and daddy doing that this kid is running amok?

Discipline and respect for elders start at home, what are these parents teaching these kids if the schism is that high these morons gotta pull this card out?!

reply to post by PvtHudson


The guy "Hans" who appears to have completely and totally misunderstood the whole thing believes the exact opposite of what the point of this is. It should be clear to any thinking person who is not a paranoid schizophrenic, that they are saying black students are disciplined in ways which negatively affect their education too much. At no point does it say, "and since we know this is bad for their education, we're going to apply those same poor methods to everyone."

It being so obvious that Hans has an obvious anti-Obama agenda (because if he doesn't there's no possible way he would come to such a conclusion so completely opposite of what was discussed), how were you not able to see through that? If anything, I would expect a post discussing how insane this Hans character is.

Wow...simply...wow.

reply to post by MidnightTide

All well and good, but in all honestly, what do you want? The government to hand out checks to every African American?

lol, no. I don't get this reparations thing. I don't know one black person personally that has ever wanted it. It is really not a popular idea. There have been some organizations that have said it but they are an extreme minority

I just want people to stop ignoring history and getting offended if someone mentions it.

reply to post by RealSpoke
no, i asked for proof of this statement ...

This country was routed in white supremacy

now, identifying slave standards of one state hardly qualifies.

let's look at PA --> you know, that state that never endorsed slavery.
so, how then can "this country be rooted in white supremacy"?

yes, there were ppl and regions who supported such ideology, there were others who did not.
the pilgrims brought slave labor with them, but i guess you'd blame that on the founders too, right?

look, this is not really relevant to the topic and your poor attempt at a derail isn't going over very well either. Race-based policies, both then and NOW are not how this country is supposed to be operating.

i know much more about this history than you do, heck i've lived it nearly 3 times longer ... i doubt you could even name 3 of the instigating groups duing the years before the CW (any 3 states of your choosing)
however, i digress as that isn't related to this topic, either.

like i said at the onset, if you are believing what you're typing, then your indoctrination is complete.
your misunderstanding of the whole concept is clearly revealed in your inability to discuss this subject honestly.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Kashai

 

in a philosophical discussion, i might tend to agree with you, however, reality has shown the opposite over the last 40yrs or so.

minority segments of the population have been specifically catered to in a variety of support programs aimed at improving education, sustenance and employment.
clearly, this isn't working so well. Obama would be a good example.

and, if we use Obama in this example, how was he treated so much more or less special as to have achieved the position of POTUS ??

unless, you are suggesting that we've bent over backwards sooooo far that the natural contraction is about to smack us upside the head.

Philosophy has nothing to do with it, skin color is irrelevant to human behavior genetically. In so far as various programs aimed at improving such differences they are clearly inappropriate. I mean even the roads in black neighborhoods in American cities are less cared for than in predominately Caucasian areas. SAT test in the 70's are now treated as a joke because they were worded so as to support Caucasian vocabularies.

Racism in our world is an epidemic and for the love of God, Recently the Queen of England recently made clear she would never allow Christians to marry into her family.

Any thoughts?

Has anyone said this yet?

This should NOT be a matter of concern for the federal government, but a matter for local schools.

reply to post by RealSpoke


Well, everyone should be able to acknowledge that slavery was part of United States history (regardless of what side you are on) that effects them to this day, but where do we go from there?

How do you erase the social and economical problems facing the African American community? To me, there is a blatant glorification of promiscuity, immorality, and criminality.....how to you combat something like that? This culture seems to embedding itself deeper and deeper into the black community every generation.