Obama backs race-based school discipline policies

Originally posted by glasshouse
reply to post by RealSpoke

 

I think one of the major problems with inner city schools is that poor and middle-class children that can't afford private schooling are forced to stay in failing schools. I definitely think non-unionized charter schools and public school voucher programs would allow many children to escape these failed institutions.

So , you want to throw more money at the problem.

Not address the issues of why the schools are failing, but kinda "spread the failure" around a little, dilute it.

You want to give the man a fish, so he can eat a meal.

I want to teach him to fish, so he can eat his own meals.

reply to post by Honor93

how did the pioneers (before government) get from point A to point B ??

There is a government so your point is obsolete.

most of them didn't even have "paycheks".

But there are paychecks,so again your point is obsolete. All land is owned by someone, you have the pay the government rent via taxes or a landlord. You have to have money to live... or be homeless. You can't pretend there isn't a system.

the point you refuse to accept is that most "in the ghetto" are comfortable with their serfdom

I wouldn't call it comfortable as they hate being poor and living there (for the most part). They are just depressed and under a spell of learned helplessness.

reply to post by Tw0Sides


Well most inner-city schools are in a deficit and reduced all of their classes. Why are they in a deficit? Redlining, again banks created the ghettos.

So, yes, some money will help.

All of the books I had were 20+ years old and missing pages, there weren't enough desks.. student had to share desks or stand. Students had to share books, you couldn't take them home because there weren't enough. The ceiling tiles would routinely fall on students. Teachers couldn't give worksheets because the school didn't have enough paper. The classes were huge and difficult to mange because teacher lay offs. And I could go on and on.

Then I moved and went to a suburban school. I couldn't believe it was real, it was like I went to another country, literally.

reply to post by RealSpoke

There is a government so your point is obsolete

i would disagree as there wasn't any slavery until one AA man demanded it in a court of law.
(sometime after government was established)

even though there is a government, it isn't the job of government to provide anything other than an opportunity. what you do with that opportunity isn't the fault of the government.

paychecks are for those unwilling to pay themselves.

i never said there wasn't a system but you always have the option to disengage from that system. tis a shame so many aren't taught to do so.

i never said they liked it but they are clearly comfortable with it as it continues to expand.

under a spell of learned helplessness

now this i would agree with for the most part.
however, i believe that spell can be broken by those who choose to do such.
you likely believe, the only remedy should be provided by the government.

and those two opinions are polar opposites.

reply to post by Grambler

Your treading a dangerous line. I could easily see the last paragraph you wrote being said by a member of the KKK. Blacks today are animals? Wow. Although the generational abuse was bad, I think that it is a falsity to say this makes violent behavior inevetible.

If you look closely I used the phrase "white men of antiquity" to indicate past tense, and I wrote that particular paragraph to highlight the effects of brainwashing coupled with isolation and physical abuse. What you can gather from that paragraph is that when you are isolated, and taken from your family, and abused, you start to question your mental faculties and you start to question your identity as well. And if the will is weak, you will succumb to this re-identification. Ask any victim of intense abuse, they will tell you.

I wrote those two paragraphs to show you how the abuses of the narcissist is similar to the abuses of 'those' men of antiquity. And the point of my whole post, which was not in response to the OP, and probably will be flagged as off-topic, is to highlight the time it takes for abused people to recover from abuse.

If it takes years for someone to deal with a year or two of intense abuse, whether it be mental, verbal, intellectual, spiritual, physical, sexual, how long will it take for a group of people to recover from centuries of many forms of abuse? Abuse that has been passed down through generations?

I can give you one confident answer:








Not two generations.

And the offer is still open to anyone who wants to provide links to any civilization that has recovered from tyranny and oppression in two generations, after having their humanity, culture, happiness, and identity seized. 40 years. 2 generations.

Originally posted by RealSpoke

Then I moved and went to a suburban school. I couldn't believe it was real, it was like I went to another country, literally.

About 5 post ago I suggested if people don't like there living situation, to move.

You jumped at me saying it couldn't be done.

And yet you did. Things wont change on their own, people have to make changes.

Blaming a situation on something that happened 150 years is a Cop Out.

reply to post by RealSpoke
while i don't think anyone would dispute this, how long ago was this time of which you speak ?? 30 / 40 yrs ago ??

yes, things have improved in some areas and gotten worse in others but what about that is different since the beginning of the Dept of Education ??

and, how does racially distributing punishment fix any of it ??

digitalcommons.law.yale.edu... still reading as im posting this but this paper seems to be relevent to the topic at hand.all this stirred up racial issue makes me glad i live in an area of the usa that dosent seem to have much in the way of racial strife but i may just not see it where i live either way figured the link would be interesting to some of the members of ats off to finish the article

Originally posted by KilrathiLG
digitalcommons.law.yale.edu... still reading as im posting this but this paper seems to be relevent to the topic at hand.all this stirred up racial issue makes me glad i live in an area of the usa that dosent seem to have much in the way of racial strife but i may just not see it where i live either way figured the link would be interesting to some of the members of ats off to finish the article

Oh Please.

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

More blacks are in Prison because more blacks commit crimes.

reply to post by Tw0Sides


I don't think it's throwing money at the problem...I think it is removing some of the problem that is sucking money up and taking from education.....UNIONS!

Without union reform and changing the way we hire and fire teachers...nothing is going to change.

It's entitlement living all around.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

Not at all. I think if we begin shutting down schools that have failed we can divert a percentage of those funds to schools that actually do work to allow for an increased student body(Not throwing money at the problem). I also believe teachers' unions have played a hugely detrimental role in the quality of public education as well as local and state government economies. So lets reform the teacher's unions ie Wis.(Still not throwing money at the problem). In addition, we can promote, through awareness, the benefits of charter schools ie school choice, distance learning and less government involvement in the education process. Now, with all that education surplus we could start to look at the possibility of granting vouchers for those students that truly need them. I hardly think allowing parents to send their children to successful schools is spreading the problem around.

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Tw0Sides

 

I don't think it's throwing money at the problem...I think it is removing some of the problem that is sucking money up and taking from education.....UNIONS!

Without union reform and changing the way we hire and fire teachers...nothing is going to change.

It's entitlement living all around.

Ok, Unions of teachers need review for sure, BUT.

Aren't the teachers of the more "successful" schools also in the Union?

reply to post by Honor93

i would disagree as there wasn't any slavery until one AA man demanded it in a court of law.

Who is talking about slavery? I'm talking about current day. And the African man was a former slave "indentured servant" himself...who then went on to own a slave.

paychecks are for those unwilling to pay themselves.

Yeah, because every small business will be a success...right. It's also hard to start a business if a bank will not give you a loan as they discriminate against blacks. www.abovetopsecret.com...

you likely believe, the only remedy should be provided by the government.

No, I really don't.

even though there is a government, it isn't the job of government to provide anything other than an opportunity

The government isn't creating opportunity. It has made everything worse and is corrupt. So....
.

reply to post by Tw0Sides


was not trying to say anything of the sort just posting a link that some people might find interesting to the discussion but if you want statistics on arrests by race and gender here ya go www.project.org...

www.bop.gov... seems to be newer results

filipspagnoli.wordpress.com... also interesting but goes all over the place in the link


www.cjcj.org... paper on age vs poverty level on the impact of criminality


and for what its worth what wikipedia has to say en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Tw0Sides
Not always. Hence "non-union charter schools" and vouchers for private schools

reply to post by Tw0Sides


They are, sure...but they are bleeding the property owners dry with taxes....

Unions are making sure teachers in failing schools are getting paid just as well and getting all the same perks as those in successful schools...kind of like spreading the punishment around.
Those poor schools cannot afford those salaries to begin with, and I think teachers should be paid according to how well their students do, not 100% but it should be part of it...if you suck at your job how long will you be able to keep it?

reply to post by Q2IN2Y

And the offer is still open to anyone who wants to provide links to any civilization that has recovered from tyranny and oppression in two generations, after having their humanity, culture, happiness, and identity seized. 40 years. 2 generations.

Germany seems to be doing just fine, Japan ... well, nature hasn't been as good as it could be but they had certainly come a long way from the days of Hiroshima.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

About 5 post ago I suggested if people don't like there living situation, to move.

I didn't move, my mom did. The only reason she was able to move is because this was before 2008 and the banks were giving high risk loans for personal profit.

reply to post by Honor93

how long ago was this time of which you speak ?? 30 / 40 yrs ago ??

LOL, no This was in the mid 2000's. I'm 20.

and, how does racially distributing punishment fix any of it ??

It doesn't, it makes no sense. This article is bias though, so I'm unsure how accurate it actually is.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
I'm not trolling .

You are the one insulting my common sense , and putting up signs saying such.

I am answering your replies with truths that go against what you believe.

You have no response to my truths, so you pull out slanderous pics.

If the kitchens too hot , leave.

What truths? That African Americans are lazy? And I love how you back that up with evidence and not just anecdotal evidence about how your a big man and would work five jobs. Oh wait, you didn't do that.

Fact is, the cost to move is high, and its difficult to just up and leave when you've only known one area your whole life.

My friends aunt lives in lint Michigan. Shes a white lady in her 80's, and a widow. About ten years ago because the situation in Flint is so bad, low income housing popped up all around her. Now she lives in a ghetto, with high crime rates (and btw before you jump on it, most of the people in the neighboorhood are white). She doesn't have the money to leave, and doesn't want to except charity from her family.

So what, shes stuck there because shes lazy right. Come on old lady, get to work at 5 jobs to get out of there!

As I mentioned before, the fact is that the wealth of this country is being siphoned to the elite. Therefore more and more people are getting very poor. Those people don't have a lot of optioons where to live, and there aren't really any good jobs around, so they settle where they can. Others in do the same, and viola, you have a ghetto.

What are they supposed to do. Doesn't matter if you lost your job because of corruption. Shut up and work two lesser paying jobs, right? Its always the fault of the poor for being poor. Again, I hope you never suffer the bad luck of losing your wealth.