Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I think those rich idiots really are not real people... I think you have to have more than wealth going for you to qualify as a human being!



But your right... we should not judge!

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
A person can be good, or they can be bad.... their actions determine this.

That's probably where we disconnect most. I believe people are people. Sometimes they do good things and sometimes they do bad things. But we are all one, from the same source, and therefore all have the same rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

As you said, most people are right handed, but that doesnt make left handed people anything other than people too...

Exactly. And to take that analogy a little further, both left-handed authors and right-handed authors are called "authors". The right-handed person's writings are not hindered or changed by the fact that the left-handed authors are also called "authors". Get the message?

Marriage is a religious union only if the couple makes it so, by marrying in a church, etc. Plenty of people marry in front of a Justice of the Peace, or Judge, whatever, where religion is never mentioned, and it becomes a legal and civil union which is just as recognized legally as those weddings held in a church.

In fact, there are probably more people married outside a church, than in one.
I think you are confusing yourself, and am not sure your issue is truly one of marriage, but rather, homosexuality.

To me this is just another example of how high powered lobbyists are able to take a subject like this and try to shove it down the American public's throat. I did research on the origin of marriage and everything I found showed marriage to have been created by the early church as a way for man and woman to join in the eyes of god in order to produce offspring. What's wrong with a civil union? That would basically give them the same result as marriage. After all wasn't it the gay lifestyle that inflicted the aids epidemic upon the world? In this case I have to side with the bible and the word of God

Originally posted by drbatstein
Gay Marriage is just something they use to distract people from the real issues, you'll notice that when there's something else in the headlines that they don't want you think spend too much time thinking about, they quickly flash up a headline about "Gay Marriage"

I've been at this for 20 years.

It's hardly a "flash" issue.

Originally posted by lme7898354
I did research on the origin of marriage and everything I found showed marriage to have been created by the early church as a way for man and woman to join in the eyes of god in order to produce offspring.

In other words - - you picked and chose - - until you found something you agreed with.

reply to post by lme7898354


But I have a question, I know what you believe, it has many similarities to my belief. And I also believe that in religion it is taught marriage is between a man and a woman and it is a covenant before God.

However, our beliefs are not theirs.... this country is founded upon equal rights for all men... and this is what the forefathers fought and bled for yes?

It was not actually founded upon Christianity, and always religion was supposed to be separate from state.

We all believe this world is full of things that are against God, and that most of mankind is the enemy of God, and that the end of times is now almost upon us... at least prophetically speaking.. although we do not know...

But the constitution was designed to protect everyone... In many ways I do not believe what you do, nor do I have to, because the constitution says we are both equal under the law... and God said to us he gave mankind free will

who are we to take away that will? Who are we to say what others can and cannot do in a society that is not religious anyway?

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

We all believe this world is full of things that are against God, and that most of mankind is the enemy of God, and that the end of times is now almost upon us... at least prophetically speaking.. although we do not know...

Very good. But do you believe gays give up believing in god just because they are gay?

If you are born gay - - and raised strongly in God faith - - - is that not also a part of you? Do you just turn against it when you discover the reality of who you are born?

God made you the way you are - - and now you're supposed to believe you are an abomination? That really has to play with the mind - doesn't it.

Originally posted by lme7898354
I did research on the origin of marriage and everything I found showed marriage to have been created by the early church as a way for man and woman to join in the eyes of god in order to produce offspring.

Oh really?? And what church was that? My research has shown me that marriage rituals have been around long before there were any churches. All cultures around the world have marriage rituals, even tribal societies that have no "church". So, who created marriage again?

What's wrong with a civil union? That would basically give them the same result as marriage.

How about you call yours a civil union? After all, it's basically the same thing.

After all wasn't it the gay lifestyle that inflicted the aids epidemic upon the world?

This is just ignorance that I won't even dignify with a reply.

reply to post by lme7898354

Originally posted by lme7898354
What's wrong with a civil union? That would basically give them the same result as marriage.

No, it doesn't. This is a very common misconception. Very few states even HAVE civil unions and in those that do, there are about 1000 benefits that "married" couples receive over those that have a "civil union". So they are NOT "basically the same" as you assert.

Source

Civil unions would provide gay and lesbian couples some 350 benefits and protections offered by the state, but would carry little clout beyond the borders of Massachusetts. On the other hand, full-fledged marital standing would grant some 1,400 rights. Without either option, unmarried couples are afforded few benefits.

After all wasn't it the gay lifestyle that inflicted the aids epidemic upon the world?

Oh, Jesus! Never mind. Ignorance is not becoming. Your first statement about civil unions shows me how much you know about the situation.

reply to post by Annee


I am not going to sit here and argue right and wrong, my beliefs verses yours, what people do privately is their business.. what I believe is mine

reply to post by OpinionatedB


So, have you completely changed your mind on this topic? It sounds like you're actually supporting gay people's right to the state institution of marriage now...

Now I'm confused!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I have been supporting it for pages now....I was never really adamantly against it either... I just wanted to understand it more.. people talked to me and helped me in that area...to the tenth power was the most helpful really...



Last night I was crying, because I couldnt understand why everyone was mad at me and telling me I was wrong and it wasnt enough even when I was supporting it... and that was when I called Neno and asked him to come because I couldnt understand people....

lol... maybe no one understood me...

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Annee

 

I am not going to sit here and argue right and wrong, my beliefs verses yours, what people do privately is their business.. what I believe is mine

I'm Atheist - - so it is not about my belief. (I was raised Christian)

Sexual orientation is hard wired into the physical body.

I'm simply making a point. How would you feel if you realized you are gay. What would that do to you and your faith?

Would you have to give up your faith - - simply because of how you were born? Asking a lot - isn't it.

reply to post by Annee


My religion and my God mean more to me than my very life, and I would give anything. I do my best daily not to break any laws... and if I could not have a happy marriage under my religion I would be single for the rest of my life and simply never have sex again... alone is better to me than to go against my beliefs...

I do not expect anyone to understand that... nor do I force anyone to hold my beliefs...you never see me running around getting all preachy to others.... to me my relationship with my God is my personal matter... and not your concern.... just as what your beleifs are and what you do privately is not mine....

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Annee

 

My religion and my God mean more to me than my very life, and I would give anything. I do my best daily not to break any laws... and if I could not have a happy marriage under my religion I would be single for the rest of my life and simply never have sex again... alone is better to me than to go against my beliefs...

Do I believe you would become celibate if you discovered you are gay? NO.

Do I believe you would understand God made you the way you are - - even if you do not fully understand why? YES

I think you would adjust your beliefs - - because you know you are not an abomination of the God you believe in.

reply to post by Annee


I have been celebate for years... its really not as bad as you might think... one does get used to it after a while...

...

reply to post by OpinionatedB


There are religion based marriage and there are also civil law marriage (you simply register as a legal spouse).
The gay marriage I believe fall into the civil law marriage. Its not a "marriage" at all but merely proper wordings to define it. You may argue its much better to define it as "partner" but the party feelings prefer it "marriage".

No, I do not find it natural at all, for me, its more of lust over logic/nature/mind.
Avoid at all cost

For pro/supporter:
You may use all your knowledge and ability to justify your means, truth is, far deep down there, you know its not right.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
I do not expect anyone to understand that...

I TOTALLY understand that! I believe firmly in the right to religious freedom and if it means that to you, I support you and your choice 100%. Where my support wanes is in the movement to keep gay people (or any group) oppressed by the use of laws based on religious beliefs, or any other beliefs that oppress a people.

I'm glad you have gotten some clarity in this thread. And I'm really glad you stuck with it! I see it was moved back to Social Issues and I agree with that move. It is an important social issue and I think a lot of good has come from this thread.

reply to post by polarwarrior


Why don't we all start wearing our suppression units when we get too strong, and placing the explosion-inducing sound units in our ears when we get too intelligent, so we can make everyone equal.

Guess what?

NOBODY will EVER be equal on every level that exists. Everyone would have to be the same color, same sex, same intelligence, same sense... What's the point of wanting to be so equal to heterosexuals? Wouldn't you want to feel like you're your own person... unique... special? Equality won't exist if you have an opposite sexual desire... that already there places an ocean between you and who you want to be equal to.

Now as for this marriage deal, I agree with OP. The tradition started with man and woman, so why wouldn't you just go for a civil union and call it a day. Quit worrying about being equal when you'd rather swing the opposite way. Marriage wasn't created by the state, and most people fighting for this support separation of church and state, so what the blank is your issue?