Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

reply to post by kaylaluv


Well and I already said this was my belief, and I think you were around for the discussion with tothetenthpower where we got everything straight.

People just keep asking the same things over and over instead of reading a resolved thread.

sorry

reply to post by OpinionatedB


They shouldn't be. The document provided by the pastor is not even legal in the states, only the marriage certifcate issued by the state is a legal document.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by thebtheb

 

Once more, I am not a Christian. My point in using the example of Buddists, is that their religion allows homosexual marriages and relations (or so I was told)

If a homosexual couple, follow a religion, and that religion does not teach against a homosexual marriage, then this is under religious discrimination.


But most gays and lesbians, always talk about rights.... I have never once on any forum any where at any time seen a gay or lesbian say my religion allows me to marry and the state is forbidding the marriage!

So my point was, if you want rights fight for rights, not marriage under religions that dont allow it, and dont fight to make a religious institution secular.....

But if it was religious discrimination, then people would be crying their constitutional rights under their particular religion....

Well I don't think any religion should be forced to do what it doesn't want to do. But as I said, there are so many different religions, even some of the ones that people think of as disallowing gays have sects that don't. Like it or not, religion and state are connected, and that's why everyone is approaching the state, where they make all the laws.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

But there is no religion which allows for it.... I guess this is my point.

Hinduism, Confucianism and Taoism has no bias against homosexuality.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


It boils down to this:

Is everyone who is married following gods law? No.

Serial murderers are allowed to get married. So are rapists. So are celibate people. So are people of largely skewed ages. So are drunks, rich people and poor people.

God doesn't dictate the law on who can get married. But it appears god does dictate to politicians who can get married.

I, personally, tend to agree with you in that it's more about equality and rights and not so much about marriage. Two people who love each other do not need the approval of a church or icon for the church to say "Go and be lovers."

But I guess, rather than fight the plethora of unjust laws surrounding same sex unions, marriage encompasses all of the rights that are given to every other aspect of society.

Some say Marriage is to signify a family union, which involves procreation and offspring. Well I know of many loveless marriages and the children are now a burden to one or both parents.

Society is mucked up. There is no right answer. Every pocket has a different depth. And I am glad sometimes that I am not a participant in all of these games people play in order to be part of this society.

Marriage isn't' solely religious. Sure it might have started off that way but its about two(or sometimes more depending on the religion) coupling up.


One thing I find funny is that I never hear an outcry of from the fundies side when hetro atheist get married? It because marriage isn't about god all that much( or at all) in western civilization. It about love, or maybe tax purposes. Or because you knocked somebody up, maybe you get married so you can get a green card I don't know.

I'm pretty tired right now so I'm gonna bring my point home. Every culture and religion has had its own form of marriage. Marriage isn't a just a christen thing. Maybe when gay couples are getting married there doing under the loving eyes of Thor or perhaps Zeus if they swing that way

Marriage is a religious institution. Something in ancient times that was a bond created before peoples God.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Like many ancient customs and institutions they move to incorporate not only the times but popular thinking of the day.

What starts as one thing often grows with time and broader knowledge into something that means different things to different people.

I think it is fair to say that two consenting adults should have the same rights in their relationship as any other consenting partners, it should not even be a debate. I do not debate a man and a woman's right to marry, it doesn't really affect me and they can marry so why should I care?

If it affects me, I care. If it affects my friends, peers and even acquaintances I care. If a couple want to show their friends, family and peers and or creator their commitment to one another with a ceremony and a piece of paper, if they want to be taxed and known as a couple and it is their "belief" that they have a right to do, why is that any less valid than your own commitment, belief or religion?

I think the rights here are the real issue. A committed couple who want to get married should be afforded that basic human right. It is not illegal for them to be a same sex couple, so why is it deemed illegal for them to marry? Perhaps because the outdated school of thought has been updated by a more educated public who finds archaic legal mumbo jumbo has not moved with the times or grown with public opinion.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
Marriage is a religious institution. Something in ancient times that was a bond created before peoples God. God was the one who said (according to religions) what marriage is, and what marriage is not, what the duties of the couples were to one another, and in marrying, they agree with God that they will follow His laws in their marriage.

So marriage is a religious union...? Seems to me, To deny marriage because of religion is basically saying that homosexuals have no spirituality. Who says one religion has a monopoly on what is spiritual (oh, right.).

OK suppose two guys get hitched.....
then one dies.....say its the male one who works.....
Dies the "LIL Homemaker "get a spouses pension the rest of his life?
That is really wierd man......
im against gays marrying for these kinds of reasons.
The reason people marry is really to stabilise the relationship for the procreation part......
IMHO.........

reply to post by OpinionatedB


all marriage is dumb in my opinion.


if you love someone, and that someone loves you, a piece of paper with "congratulations" on it is a nasty insult to a beautiful thing.



peace.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

 

This was already addressed in these two posts, the one I am linking to and the one underneath it which was my response...

We had discussed whether Buddists prohibited homosexuality and whether or not they married.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

this was my response:

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by billy197300

 

Well, why are gays and lesbians not buddists then? Then they would be afforded religious freedom and the government/state could not oppose a marriage if it is marriage they want.

but if it is rights they want, why are they not simply fighting for all people regardless of religion or creed or lack thereof to have equal rights under the law?

I honestly think more people would be behind that.

edit on 26-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Buddha was never considered or worshiped as a God.

You haven't addressed the question of "What God" you're talking about. Buddha isn't a god, the Hindi have many gods, as did the Druids and present day Pagans. Wiccans are a recognized religion with many gods or deities. Scientology is also a recognized religion that has no God!

Native people, all over the planet had marriages and never heard of your god. So what makes what your god says according to your religion more important than others?

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Miraj

 

In this country people are afforded legal protections for marriage under religious freedom.

This country recognises that in religion, and under religious freedom, marriage is part of that and protected by it.

Not true. The Mormon religion called for multiple wives. Arabs, Muslims and Jews used to have many wives, some still do. This is illegal, regardless of religion, in the USA. So are honor killings and female circumcision, regardless of religion.

Child brides are common practice in some countries and are supported by religions. They are illegal in the USA.

reply to post by windword


No one ever once said that cultural practices of other countries which are illegal in this country would ever once be accepted... breaking the law is not accepted....

but freedom of religion without breaking any laws is accepted. It is protected in the constitution, it appears to be one of those things people died for.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


But the laws have changed. It used to be okay to have more than 1 wife in the USA, now it's not. Their freedom of religion according to marriage WAS violated.

Women weren't allowed to ask for a divorce before the mid 1900's, now they are.

I don't get it ! first i did not understand why in USA people are so involved in all this gay things ! and specially in ATS this a hot subject ! personally i don't care about marriage and i don't care about religion , i will never want look like all this straight people , you can keep god and the marriage, i feel different and i'm different, and i have no shame about it, this actually the people who care a lot about my personal sexual orientation , this so funny, i have so much to think , i don't have time to care about how people live or dress or eat or what they should do or not ! my question is , is it so important for you ? you can marry and have children, live your life this is your due ! then why would prevent others from doing the same ! gay marriage will prevent you from living your life? is it affecting you way of life ? i don't think so ! i do not care about the marriage, but i can understand why , when you are rejected by some people the best way is to do and look like the majority who rejecting you and finally to look like them and be accepted, but it's a waste of time hate and judging is in the human DNA .

God is love, love is god

peace

reply to post by Mcupobob


It didn't even start off as religious. It began to seal property and it helped to ensure paternity most likely.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


zzz

reply to post by OpinionatedB


"LEGITAMITE question, seeking LEGITAMITE discourse" !!!!????

Jeezus... Do NONE of you possess dictionaries, as if spell-checkers weren't enough???
Are that many of you really this illiterate?
Do you really expect to be taken seriously?

HERE'S an idea; butter up someone who knows how to write, and have THEM translate your scratching into English.

Don't get me wrong, I can USE a laugh, it's just that this isn't a humor site.

reply to post by Star128


I did not use spell check, sorry if my spelling offends you or somehow you cannot understand my english. It was nice of you to drop by to throw an insult to someone you do not know, I am sure you feel superior now.

Good day.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I think your confusion stems from assuming that only Christians (or any other bigoted religion) can be ordained ministers.

There are plenty of religions that have ordained ministers (as well as ordained atheists) who can perform a legal marriage ceremony.

The reason people marry is really to stabilise the relationship for the procreation part......

reply to post by stirling


Rubbish! Young single women are popping out offspring all over the place to many different sperm donors. They do not need a license for this and they do not marry their "baby daddy". As I said in the post above, the reason may have been one thing eons ago but that is far from the case in this day and age.