Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

Originally posted by thebtheb
reply to post by Annee

 

VERY good article! And SO true! Like as if NOW is the only way we've ever done things.

Yes it is a very good article.

I have read many different ones on the history of marriage - - this one seems to be pretty complete.

reply to post by thebtheb


www.abovetopsecret.com...

i havnt read the bible for a long long time but i dont remember it saying anything about gay marriage.
some quotes would be good

Originally posted by AnarchysAngel
reply to post by quietlearner

 

You're right. We have no issue. In order to have an issue, both sides must be able to argue for their chosen side politically. Anti-gay supporters can't do that. Which is why religion is dragged into it. It's the only means they have to seriously sway society. This kind of situation is exactly why religion was seperated from state.

The constitution is the highest law in the land. No law can be written that opposes it. Yet we have those arguing that the biblical defenition of marriage should apply to the legal one, which it shouldn't.

By that thinking any law on the books right now that extends the biblical defenition of marriage to the legal one, should be overturned.

and you are just one step away from calling anti gays anti american
just like anti war people are labeled anti american by some
the truth is gay marriage is just not addressed in the constitution
my guess is that gay marriage was just out of the question when the constitution was written
otherwise some mention of it must have been made

edit: I think I lost you or you lost me
I thought I clearly showed that its not just religious people that are anti gay
what do you mean "It's the only means they have to seriously sway society."
are you saying that non religious anti gay are using religious rhetoric to sway society?
that just shows how you have demonized anti gays

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by thebtheb
reply to post by Annee

 

VERY good article! And SO true! Like as if NOW is the only way we've ever done things.

Yes it is a very good article.

I have read many different ones on the history of marriage - - this one seems to be pretty complete.

And it's not like a lot of us haven't read all that stuff before, but even I tend to forget it sometimes. I was going to say within this thread, that marriage as something that was about love AND family at the same time is a relatively new concept in terms of our timeline.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by thebtheb

 

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is not answering my post at all. What rights are you afraid anyone will lose? Be specific. Tell us. Show me any rights that you or any religious person will lose. I mean that IS your point, right?

Originally posted by thebtheb

And it's not like a lot of us haven't read all that stuff before, but even I tend to forget it sometimes. I was going to say within this thread, that marriage as something that was about love AND family at the same time is a relatively new concept in terms of our timeline.

Well - - as I stated - - my position is strictly Legal Government Marriage.

America intentionally created a legal contract - - specifically to prevent interracial marriage. It certainly had NOTHING to do with anything sacred.

Prior to that - - - government had no requirements for marriage.

Gays are not responsible for - - nor should they be treated with inequality - - - because their Government created this contract called a Marriage License.

The government could have called it Civil Union - - - and told everyone Marriage belonged to church. But they did not.

Gays are not responsible for their choice and decision.

reply to post by thebtheb


Yes dear, your not reading the thread, or my comment.

That comment said the thread was resolved. If you would like to read the discussion in which resolved the thread and answered all my questions please feel free....

it started here with this person who so kindly was willing to have a nice discussion on the topic with no insulting or critisizing.. (which is truely if you did not notice what I prefer in a discussion)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

to which I responded..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

you can go through the next page for the entire discussion and all my responses....it was between myself and he, and he also spoke to another member but that was more between them...

this was the last comment... www.abovetopsecret.com...

which answered all my questions and the topic really ended with this

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So anything at this point is just beating a dead horse and making me repeat things.... we resolved the discussion

The religious people that I know, who are against gays marrying, their problem is simple. Marriage is for a man and woman. Their only problem with gay marriage is the use of the word marriage. They have zero problem with civil unions, that are equal to marriage in benefits, they just don't want it called marriage.

reply to post by TKDRL

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Ok I see where you are coming from.

Let me elaborate a bit on my position, we are probably far closer aligned that one might think..

I think it's a real shame that marriage was made into a legal institution by the government. They never should have had a hand in this. It never should have been "marriage" in the first place.

It should have ALWAYS been civil contracts between two or more parties. Marriage has always been a religious institution and should have remained that way, untouched by the legalities of government.

Since the government actually broke the 1st amendment and put your rights at risk by making marriage a legal concept to begin with, it would actually benefit your rights to religion if it was removed from the legal space.

That way your right to religion does not conflict with any legal contracts required by the states for rights granted to couples vs non couples.

~Tenth

Quoted as a very good post! One everyone truly agrees on!

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by thebtheb

 

Yes dear, your not reading the thread, or my comment.

That comment said the thread was resolved. If you would like to read the discussion in which resolved the thread and answered all my questions please feel free....

it started here with this person who so kindly was willing to have a nice discussion on the topic with no insulting or critisizing.. (which is truely if you did not notice what I prefer in a discussion)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

to which I responded..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

you can go through the next page for the entire discussion and all my responses....it was between myself and he, and he also spoke to another member but that was more between them...

this was the last comment... www.abovetopsecret.com...

which answered all my questions and the topic really ended with this

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So anything at this point is just beating a dead horse and making me repeat things.... we resolved the discussion

I have not tried to rude to you, one, only insistent. And for this particular response of mine that we're on in the last couple of exchanges, you were posting actual responses. If your whole thread was resolved, then I don't know why you were saying very recently in the entirety of this thread that you are afraid of religious rights being trampled upon. And if you cannot answer me directly without referring me to a link, let's not bother. Bye bye!

Originally posted by TKDRL
Their only problem with gay marriage is the use of the word marriage. They have zero problem with civil unions, that are equal to marriage in benefits, they just don't want it called marriage.

The racist bigots who created America's marriage license should have had more foresight.

Calling a government contract Marriage - - - created a situation of - Separate but Equal.

Separate but Equal - - is NEVER OK.

So - - too bad.

reply to post by thebtheb


I have been answering every single question you ask me as you ask....but you want to repeat every single point all over again.... I do not understand why I cannot show you what resolved the issue when you asked...

if you disagree with the resolution wouldnt it be easier to start from there then?

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by thebtheb

 

I have been answering every single question you ask me as you ask....it is not enough, you want to repeat every single point all over again.... I do not understand why I cannot show you what resolved the issue when you asked...

But you too keep saying the same thing over and over again:

"As I am not myself a Christian we simply go by the scholars of said religion for their interpretation of the texts on this matter.... and I have heard most of them declare that the Bible stated homosexuality is condemned.

It is not to me to change their religious beliefs, nor is it to you, nor anyone else....

Anyone in this country, is allowed the freedom to practice and believe in whatever religion they want, so long as their practices are within the confines of the law....

Everyone in this country regardless of religion, creed, or sexual orientation and so forth, in this country are constitutionally protected and afforded equal rights

Peoples religious constitutional rights can never ever be trampled on, and neither can anyones right to protection of equality under the law.... but you cannot decide what I can believe, and how my marriage is defined inside my religion, because to me marriage is a religious institution protected under the constitiution of the united states of american... just as are your rights

No ones rights should be removed, everyone should be afforded equal treatment, and all americans should stand for that together!"

That is what I'm recently responding to.

And no, really I can't fully tell what your position is from reading your links, which I did. So I guess forget it then since you won't discuss it with me. That's okay. I know my position: Government legalizing gay marriage doesn't alter any rights of any religion. If you think otherwise, then no, we're not in agreement. Otherwise, sorry, I don't read every single post in a thread necessarily.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I don't see how the thread is resolved either. I just see that you found someone with whom you are in agreement. But you haven't addressed the questions directed at you regarding how your religious freedom of marriage is under attack by the introduction of secular gay marriage.

Originally posted by thebtheb

"As I am not myself a Christian we simply go by the scholars of said religion for their interpretation of the texts on this matter.... and I have heard most of them declare that the Bible stated homosexuality is condemned.

To me that is a complete copout.

That is CHOICE.

A CHOICE to believe Fundamental preachers who don't study history/culture/languages of the time of Jesus and writings of ancient times.. I doubt they study any real facts at all.

There are Many scholars who actually study the culture and languages of the time of Jesus and the writings of ancient script. They have a completely different viewpoint.

reply to post by Annee


So even if you have the same rights, y'all will just keep bickering with them over termonology that they hold dear?

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

So even if you have the same rights, y'all will just keep bickering with them over termonology that they hold dear?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!! 100%

No 2nd class citizen. No Separate but Equal.

NEVER!

reply to post by TKDRL


I do not understand what people do not understand or why we have to repeat every single question in the entire thread over...

can you or Neno explain to me what people are asking...? Please?

I am going to message Neno to ask for his help to understand too

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

So even if you have the same rights, y'all will just keep bickering with them over termonology that they hold dear?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!! 100%

No 2nd class citizen. No Separate but Equal.

NEVER!

Frigging right absolutely. What else do you expect? If uneducated, clearly bigoted people are shouting out crap that they don't ACTUALLY know anything about that affects millions of people, why shouldn't an educated person point out how very little they do know, especially if it causes discrimination in others?