Did the Holocaust Really Happen?

Originally posted by bjarneorn
Is it wrong to question the "holocust"? No, it isn't ... it's perfectly normal. It's abnormal to believe in it ...

Its abnormal to believe in a documented, recorded and factual event?

Really?

Sorry, but whats abnormal is to deny it happened and try and spin some kind of distorted guilt trip on to people to back up your argument.

Yes, atrocities have been committed elsewhere. Other holocausts have occurred.

But tell me, how many of them get constantly questioned about their existence?

See, there is a reason that people question the holocaust, and its a dark and ugly reason, and it only has to do with one thing - that jewish people were involved in it. All the other ethnicities, nationalities and religions that were swept up by the Nazi's get forgotten. It's only the jewish element thats mentioned.

And as a moderator on a site like this, I have never seen a thread question the existence of the killing fields in Cambodia or the massacres under Stalins Russia., or the political purges in China and North Korea or slaughter of American Indians, the Japanese rape of China in the late 30's... none of those get questioned.

Ever.

Only the jewish element of the holocaust in WW2 does.

Strange that, isn't it?

Maybe people ought to think about that a little?

Nothing original, I'm afraid. My vote is for deleting the thread. Not because of the title, or the OP which was a very nice piece of work the author should be proud of, but because of how it makes ATSers look. After all those pages, there was one apology. And in those pages one can find carelesness, anger, rudeness, a willingness to be jerked around by emotion until the brain was shut off. This thread is a terrible ad for ATS and should be destroyed forever.

Of course, you could simply shoot "off-topic" notices on it as with a shotgun filled with bird shot, but that would look very odd.

Or, I suppose if you have to, you can leave it up as a warning to all.

reply to post by charles1952


This shouldn't be deleted. ATS created the responses to this thread, it is only fair that ATS has to stand for them too.

Originally posted by Gwampo
proooobably the most ignorant OP I have ever read

what part of the opening post is ignorant? are you sure you read the opening post because, if you did, and you are calling it ignorant, you are, basically, stating that it is ignorant to believe the holocaust happened.

The best documentary I saw about this particular question is by a French historian : "Un Homme - Faurisson"
Very interesting and thorough.

www.unhommefaurisson.com...
English subtitles available.

There is no denying Jews had problems during the war, just the story of 6 million deaths in gas chambers seems to be a bit too much.

Kinds of makes you think about the Irakians removing babies from incubators and other PR stories like talibans living in caves hijacking several planes with cutters...

reply to post by mwood


In point of fact I do, or rather did. They've long since passed on, but when I was a child I knew a couple who survived the camps. They lived not too far away from me as a child, and I used to deliver their newspapers, and talked with them many a time, and got to know them rather well.

In a more indirect, through a good friend, I knew two others, her grand-mother who I met only briefly, and her grand-father who passed before I could meet him also lived to tell the tale.

Just so you know? The first two were Romany. The latter two were Jewish.

So yes, I have personal knowledge of survivors. Not to mention the talks that I've attended given by survivors, and others who helped people hide.

I've absolutely no doubt whatsoever of the veracity of many of the accounts.

Originally posted by Qumulys
reply to post by EvanB

 

A little bit of my faith is restored!

I hope others and especially those Mods who should set a high standard and example to ATS (I quoted them on the previous page), follow your lead.

It's never easy admitting you got something wrong, but you feel a damn sight better after you acknowledge it. Very gutsy of you!

When you are wrong you are wrong... I learnt something from the OP.. I did not know the JW story through the 2nd world war.. I hope others read it and ignore the obvious proselytism..

Good story..

Dont bash the OP until you have read it..

I hate people who deny the Holocaust.. I went to Bergen Belsen when I was stationed just down the road...

Trust me

Its very real...

reply to post by SubAce


Good post OP maybe adjust the title a little.

I personally know many elderly folks with tattoos on their forearms. I have heard their stories.

They are not only Jews, but Russians, Polish, Czechoslovakian, Ukrainian, and the list goes on.

Detroit area is multi-culturally diverse and many that escaped the Holocaust ended up in Michigan.

I have also heard first hand accounts of the Armenian genocide, or the Armenian Holocaust which many people do not know, or have heard about but they were almost wiped out entirely. Many Armenians live in Michigan, as well.

It's good to question, but if you want first hand accounts talk to the people that lived it.

Originally posted by Ketsa
There is no denying Jews had problems during the war,

I'd say being the subject of an attempt to systematically eradicate whole groups of people, the sole reason being that they are inferior* to you is a bit more than just problems.



*Please note that the term inferior, in this case means anyone who is different. This does not rule out anyone who is, in reality, better than the person claiming their superiority. It also doesn't rule out someone who is equal but who holds a job someone else wants, or a position of authority that someone else wants or a home or a watch or a girlfriend or anything. In this case, inferior should be taken to mean scapegoat. A scapegoat is someone you blame for everything, regardless of it actually being their fault.
Example - can't find a job, other than sweeping streets - blame the jew.
Example - can't afford a bigger home for my family - blame the homosexuals
Example - came in 4th in the big race - blame the romany
Example - wife left me because I am unemployed, can't afford a bigger home, can't win the big race - blame the blacks.

and so on.

6 million Jews directly kiilled 6 million non-Jews directly killed.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Of course it did happen, just not 6 million Jews. Perhaps half as many, if that. It's just an arbitrary, useful number to them, and the bigger it is the more clout it has.

History needs it's own solidified scientific method. Test a historical dictum for authenticity, and if it holds up, amend our historical records accordingly. Throwing people in prison for up to 5 years for "holocaust denial" is pathetic. It just outlines who is in control.

I find it ironic that these so-called "inferior" Jews were the very people who stopped the war and gave us the devices that the mere presence of them has kept the world relatively peaceful for the last 60 years.. Nuclear weapons..

Though this will not be the most welcoming reply, I feel that it is important nonetheless.

When it comes to history, no matter what it is, if you weren't personally there, then there is a window for research, debate, and yes even denial. This is why we are here, to ask the questions, to share ideas, and even to learn from one another. We dont have to all agree, but any discussion about history that has managed to be this taboo to me is very important.

If this subject was irrelevant to our time, then leave it in the books, but its not. There are about a million different off shoots of this, who lost, and who gained. All that I see is that unless the "facts" and I mean cold hard facts surface then this subject shouldn't be closed.

This is the same as non religious people not seeing it till a god comes, people that dont believe in aliens wont see it till they come from a ship, and go to their house to have dinner, or an actual Al-quada terrorist shows the blueprints for attacking on 9/11, and so on.

Us asking for more evidence, or a certain amount of truth is solely because so many people now know that we never heard an "official history story" without a bit of fudging.

Research should never be hindered, no matter anyone else's personal beliefs. If thats the case ATS and every other research conspiracy forum should be shut down.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by petrus4


fascism never died , its been brewing in the US since the end of world warII , the facist are just a little more careful with their genocide of ethnic groups now ! The nationalism and corporate control of government policy is still there ,national pride through military strength , police state, torture camps for dissidents and "terrorists" .

Anyways ......

Originally posted by Gauss
reply to post by charles1952

 

This shouldn't be deleted. ATS created the responses to this thread, it is only fair that ATS has to stand for them too.

Created the responses to this thread? What do you mean?

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


I mean that clearly, ATS members wrote the hateful responses to the thread, so ATS members should also have to stand for them.

I will share with you just one story of mine, from the Detroit area.

In the mid 80's I became friends with a very sweet old couple, that lived behind the place were I worked after school, they both had broken accents, but otherwise looked like a normal elderly american couple.

The man kept beehives in his backyard, which was permitted and being a certified bee keeper myself I was fascinated by his unusual methods that really seem foreign to what I had learned. Come to find out they were Russian Jews, both had tattoos or numbers on their forearms. I loved these two like my second grandparents.

They did not speak of the holocaust when they were together, but separately would speak lightly of what they endured, if I asked.

In 1994, the husband was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and was given less than 4 months to live, he hung himself in the garage a day later.

Raziel's note read: I have endured a 100 lifetime of pains, and will die by my own accord and not waste away in a hospital.

Raziel had willed his bees to me along with all of his tools, supplies and knowledge.......it was a very humbling experience for me.

His wife said without one tear that she understood what he had done and respected his choice.

I have a really hard time when people deny the holocaust when I have met so many Jews and non-Jews that survived.

reply to post by EvanB


really how many of the manhattan project were jews ?

Leó Szilárd - jewish
Eugene Wigner - jewish
Edward Teller - jewish
Richard Feynman - atheist !
J. Robert Oppenheimer - jewish
Albert Einstein - hmm well he had very broad religious views , but came from a Jewish background
Enrico Fermi - Roman catholic I can assume from his fathers upbringing

I didnt know that before ! wow interesting in only that its ironic !

First of all, I would like to apologize for this remark:

Has ATS been taken over by retards this summer or something?

It was a bit harsh.

It is kind of dumb to try to respond to a post you don't even read though. Maybe we need a new addition to TC and a graphic about reading the topic before responding or something though........ It makes the forum users look really bad when half the responses to the topic have obviously not read said topic.

We are supposed to deny ignorance here, and kneejerk reactions to a title, while ignoring the whole topic is pretty ignorant, don't you think?

reply to post by TKDRL

I just dont know its possible to read the title and then just hit reply without even reading the post , Maybe they just read the first couple of lines and get so angry!

Most likely what happens when anyone tries to discuss the holocaust , they see the first statement of the discussion then feelings and emotions take over and then it turn into a hate fest and no intelligent discussion can be had !

Now that the last of the people who whare in the army
who had to clean up the "camps" are dead.
They can re' wright History.

It uset to be just the Church who did the re' wrighting of History.
now the goverments help them.

I dont understand why they are doing this for Germany?
or is it that they just dont wont the people do know what
Man cand do to Man?