Enlightenment

Originally posted by MerkabaMeditation
reply to post by lowki

 

I'm not a buddhist. In my belief system Enlightenment does not belong to any religion,

it does however have a definition.

1. The act or a means of enlightening.
The state of being enlightened.
2. Enlightenment A philosophical movement of the 18th century that emphasized the use of reason to scrutinize previously accepted doctrines and traditions and that brought about many humanitarian reforms. Used with the.
3. Buddhism & Hinduism. A blessed state in which the individual transcends desire and suffering and attains Nirvana.


Read more: www.answers.com...

if someone says "I can give you enlightenment" then know that he/she is a liar; only you can enlighten yourself. Truth does not take sides. If someone says "I can help you be enlightened" then he/she may be speaking the truth.

sure, help become enlightened or illuminated there are well tread paths to it for sure.

Be aware of power, because it is fear that is the emotion that drives that desire. Know that your desires change who you are, feelings are true energies in other realm/realities that manifest themselfs in the physical body through its chemical reactions in the brain. The search for power feeds your higher self with fear energies.

edit on 8-7-2012 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)

Knowledge is power, it is those that lack which live in fear.
Darkness is what often scares people, as they don't know what is in it.

When you have lots of knowledge, then you have lots of light,
and so you can see through the darkness, with the brightness of your shining light.

Not all that search for knowledge do so as to increase their power. Why do people yearn for more power? Because power is control, primarly control over your own destiny. This need for control comes from the fear of not controlling your own destiny, the fear of the unknown. Because of this the search for more power feeds your higher self with fear energies.

Originally posted by MerkabaMeditation
Not all that search for knowledge do so as to increase their power. Why do people yearn for more power? Because power is control, primarly control over your own destiny. This need for control comes from the fear of not controlling your own destiny, the fear of the unknown. Because of this the search for more power feeds your higher self with fear energies.

edit on 8-7-2012 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2012 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)

I dono man, maybe that's true for you,
but I look for more knowledge out of curiosity.

Control is something to do with tricking trolls,
and there aren't really any trolls around,
so I don't see much point to it lol.

Yes there is magically defining self-experience.
Though you probably aren't curious about it ;-).

reply to post by lowki


I believe that the Ancient Words of Power that is needed for true magic has long since been forgotten. To my knowledge the magic that is in use today is simulcra magic. It's just like programming a computer, even if you have all the neccessary software and a computer but you have forgotten the programming language, then you are just entering programming code that the computer does not understand and you will get nowhere. In the rare case that something supernatural has occurred I suspect it being a supernatural entity and not the human doing the actual magic.

reply to post by BlueMule


That is one translation of satori, yes. Pure consciousness is more valid than enlightenment, to me, because enlightenment comes with so much ego. People always say to be enlightened is to remove the ego. But, why does the ego need removing? And, if you're enlightened, why look down on those who you do not perceive as being enlightened? It's all an ego trip, disguised as a lack-of ego. That's why I prefer satori. It comes quietly, makes a big statement, and departs. Leaving you as human as ever, but with a connection to something greater. It can change you, without elevating you.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by MerkabaMeditation


I don't necessarily agree that the Words of Power have been lost. While a lot of modern Paganism and witchcraft relies heavily on "gibberish" to stir the subconscious intelligence, there are definitely systems of higher magic, like Theosophy and Thelema, which employ the use of more archaic, and culturally-true spiritual Words of Power.

Kemetic magic, for instance, is rife with Words of Power. The whole language of the people of Kem is a power-language, as every word, symbol, and glyph in the hieroglyphic language was thought to contain power within it. The belief was so strong, that occasionally their owl and vulture hieroglyphs were depicted without legs so they could not escape the walls they were carved into.

The Enochian language, angelical, is another example. While I myself only partially subscribe to it's "power," it is thought to be an entirely unique, original, and isolate-language without any kind of precursor. Every word in Enochian was said to have been transmitted in reverse, to avoid the power of conveying the prayers correctly. Again, not so much a language I work with, but, it's there.

Just some food for thought.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Gotcha. Thanks.

In my experience, removal of the ego is otherwise known as ego-death. It is followed by ego rebirth. So the removal isn't permanent. It's like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. An anomaly of identity.

reply to post by ypperst


There's gonna be a new complex post-2012 trauma .. That's like a given ..

Sad thing is - enlightenment is just related to consciousness and really has nothing to do with the world we live in ... People get stuck up in stories in order to save the world - forgetting to save themselves in the process ..

simply put, there are those that KNOW and those that do NOT know.

there is a divide between these two groups of people. those that KNOW cannot tell those who do not know anything. those that do NOT know cannot hear those that know through their arrogance and ego. this is a fact and i know anybody who is here with me will understand this to be 100% truth.

if there ever was a "mark," this is it.

i can tell you, i know somebody who is LIKE ME when I see them... and I know also somebody immediately who is not. you can call me "judgmental" all you want.. i don't care. God gave me the ability to be able to see who is like me and who is not that way I could chose my company wisely. It is not my JOB here as a believer to let those who do not believe make me pay for how they are choosing to live their lives.

OP, it is you who is holding this world back.. you and your kind... the kind that refuses to accept help from an outside source.. or who is too arrogant and uninformed to realize when help is needed. You are powerless. Face it. And still, you're only concerned about your own progress, while the rest of us are concerned about the world. You are selfish... and not in a good way.

reply to post by ypperst


Could not agree more, a very valid point indeed. Enlightenment is not about the tingling in your spine and general heightened feeling of awareness it is simply waking up (as you do every morning.) taking note of your surroundings. Once you have woken up it is of very little use unless you do something whilst awake. But many get caught up searching for that novelty tingle up and down their spine and forget that in order for the house to be clean someone has to clean it. Just noting it is dirty is not enough.

Originally posted by MerkabaMeditation
reply to post by lowki

 

I believe that the Ancient Words of Power that is needed for true magic has long since been forgotten.

true is personal experience.

even higher animals can do magic,
as can extra-terrestrials, who don't speak words.

seek and ye shall find,
ask and it is given,
knock and it opened.

To my knowledge the magic that is in use today is simulcra magic. It's just like programming a computer, even if you have all the neccessary software and a computer but you have forgotten the programming language, then you are just entering programming code that the computer does not understand and you will get nowhere. In the rare case that something supernatural has occurred I suspect it being a supernatural entity and not the human doing the actual magic.

can phrase it in the simplest most concise and precise terms you can.
It is all about making your intent clearly understood by you,
then the universe and various spiritual entities,
can discern how best to appease you.

Of course you must also have karmic surplus,
i.e. having contributed more than you have consumed,
in order for them to have any inclination to appeasing you.

If your karmic balance is negative,
then your wishes may backfire.

That's why it is so important to co-create, love, cherish, appreciate, share
raising your karmic balance, through benevolent actions.

You are correct. Waiting for enlightenment to come is ignorant (in my opinion).
Enlightenment for me is understanding, compassion, love, and realizing that we are all one, only scattered in different forms, which makes us think we are different. Enlightenment for me is destroying your own ego's, admitting your mistakes and learning from your mistakes. Enlightenment for me is understanding that what i sought for i already had, but the process of seeking for enlightenment made me realize it. Enlightenment for me is a never ending quest for knowledge.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

are you saying it happens to ignorant, greedy, evil people whether they try to be upright or not? then the meaning of life is absurd, there is no justice and no reason to be compassionate or charitable. The Golden Rule is a sham? Are you saying enlightenment is a free ride? cool, I think I'll go out and rob an old lady right after I step on a kitten.

There is no reason to be nice and good if that is what you mean. This is the program that makes you feel bad, this is the program running in your head telling you off, this is the false sense of self, this is the voice that tortures you. This is what makes life heavy and not light.

Ignorance is painful and the pain and suffering of the human condition will lead to liberation.
There is no good or bad when the truth is realized, everything is just as it is.
No one is doing life. It is just happening.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

what a relief!!!

reply to post by BlueMule


My problem with ego-death, dissolution of the ego, and other things of that nature, is that culturally, our world is divided into three camps.

One group, following Aboriginal, Nataive American, Hermetic, and other "enlightened" New Age philosophies, believes in the rebirth of the ego; melding the self into union with the supposed Godhead. This is where the "I" becomes the "We," or the "Us."

Another group, like the diverse schools of Buddhism, believe in the total removal and dissolution of the ego, from both the individual, and the Godhead. There is no "I," or "We," because all things are illusory, and a fragmentation of Higher Reality. Reaching Nirvana is transcending the limits of any and all individuality, ego, and personality.

The final path, including Theistic and Spiritual Satanism, Hedonism, and other self-serving philosophies, beliefs, and religions, believe in the encouragement and development of the ego. They believe in not only the superiority of the human being, but specifically in the advanced nature of their own self.

And, the problem, is that all three schools work just as well as one another.

Anyone who condemns the Satanist, has never fully delved into the system, or else, how could so many live full lives as members of the Church of Satan?

Any who say it is wrong to remove oneself from the equation, as per traditional Buddhism, has never fully detached from friends, lovers, community, and the rest to experience a life of pure non-being.

Any who say that re-birthing the ego in unity and compassion is pure bullocks, must not have ever tried to be selflessly compassionate for their fellow man.

Unless you're like me, and realize all three schools work. Which would mean no single avenue is the "right" way, or the "Truth," but that everything is subjective to the individual.

Just my view on the whole thing though. Take it or leave it.

~ Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe

Unless you're like me, and realize all three schools work.

Yeah, all three can work. So I'm having trouble understanding why you feel that there is 'no such thing as enlightenment'. I became enlightened one way, someone else became enlightened another way. So what?

My path was a combination of bhakti yoga, study, art, and Native American vision quests. I've seen the Blue Pearls, I've united with God and become me again, I've been in states of ecstasy, rapture, full kundalini awakening, I've manifested various 'siddhi', I've made love to Goddesses, I've felt detachment, unconditional compassion and undifferentiated love, and I've been made privvy to 'heavenly secrets'. I've been to the 'Holy Dark', I've been under Sacred Mountains. I've been in the sky. I've recovered memories of past lives. My consciousness has been transformed. Jacques Vallee would call me a 'UFO contactee'. I consider myself enlightened, but I know there are people who would not share my opinion. Frankly, I don't care. I've studied enough comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism to have my own standards of measure. I need no one elses standards or approval.

Other people might get there by other paths...there are many paths and I think that's as it has to be.

reply to post by BlueMule


I don't accept enlightenment, because the roads to it, and the experience itself, is different depending on the experiences one undergoes to reach it. To take the Buddhist route, enlightenment, satori, would be coming to the conclusion that there is no Godhead or divine unity, only sublimation and removal. To come from the route of the hanbleceya you come to be in-tune with the Grandfathers, and Wakan Tanka, which is a form of unity through wisdom. Right there, just those two, and enlightenment means two nearly opposite things: complete removal, and total immersion.

I guess I don't see enlightenment as valid, because there are so many roads to it, that how can it be anything other than just "life experience"? This, obviously, all just being my opinion on the whole thing. I don't rally against people who believe in reincarnation, Nirvana, the hanbleceya, or any of those mystical moments. I just don't like when people try to say they know what it is, because it cannot be defined. It is everything.

~ Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Different words mean different things to different people in different cultures and eras. Including enlightened people, who come in a variety of temperaments. Don't put too much faith in words like 'Divine'... words are just symbols, and mystical experience is ineffable.

“Some Hindus have an elephant to show.
No one here has ever seen an elephant.
They bring it at night to a dark room.

One by one, we go in the dark and come out
saying how we experience the animal.
One of us happens to touch the trunk.
A water-pipe kind of creature.

Another, the ear. A strong, always moving
back and forth, fan-animal. Another, the leg.
I find it still, like a column on a temple.

Another touches the curve back.
A leathery throne. Another, the cleverest,
feels the tusk. A rounded sword made of porcelain.
He is proud of his description.

Each of us touches one place
and understands the whole in that way.
The palm and the fingers feeling in the dark
are how the senses explore the reality of the elephant.

If each of us held a candle there,
and if we went in together, we could see it.”

― Rumi

reply to post by BlueMule


I am familiar with the Blind Men and the Elephant. And I don't disagree that aspects of a projection of presumed Enlightenment may be viewed by various people, in a host of different ways. Where I see the breakdown is not in the road, but in the experience itself.

If one man feels the trunk, another the tusk, a third the leg, and a fourth the back of the Elephant, they can all put their experience together and arrive at the conclusion the animal is a tusked quadruped, with a hard, strong back, and a trunk.

The same does not work for enlightenment.

One man says enlightenment is selfless love, and dedication to the betterment of the world, before the self. Another man says that enlightenment is a removal of any type of connection or clinging to the world, emotions, or thoughts in any way, shape, or form. A third man says that enlightenment is the dissolving of, and rebuilding of, the ego in union with the One God. And the fourth man says enlightenment is to serve yourself, and only yourself, without concern or care for anyone, anything, or any other being living or dead or in-between.

Tell me what kind of "Enlightenment Animal" we get if all four men are correct.

Obviously the "animal" we'd arrive at could not exist, as it contains qualities which cannot simultaneously be. One cannot be entirely devoted to the well-being of others, while entirely dedicated to only themselves. Just as one cannot assume an association, and engulfment within, the Spirit of All Things... while discarding any such Spirit's existence.

Again though, this is just me. For many, many people, they are content and happy to have their slice of enlightenment pie. And that's all good. If it gives you meaning, and purpose, and direction, more power to you. It doesn't do so for me though. I have found my own ways to be purposeful, and oriented, without needing to believe I am a part of some Greater Force, or that no Greater Force is present at all.

~ Scribe

THANK YOU! For once a hippie that makes sense to me.