Occupiers Celebrate 4th of July by…Burning American Flags and Vandalizing Police Property

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty

You are right they should just sit down hold hands.Then get tased and pepper sprayed.

Ridiculous. If they didn't act like idiots they'd never experience any police intervention. Police uphold LAW. If you experience police intervention you're breaking LAW. I have no sympathy for law breakers; they get what they've earned.  

The only thing the police see anymore is violance.What is wrong with giving a little back?

Nothing, if you want what they serve. I'll gladly watch you get a beating.

Ridiculous. If they didn't act like idiots they'd never experience any police intervention. Police uphold LAW. If you experience police intervention you're breaking LAW. I have no sympathy for law breakers; they get what they've earned.

reply to post by seabag


Even unconstitutional laws, laws that the citizens have no kind of input or vote on? Judging by laws that have been passed over the last decade, a law breaker is almost ANYBODY now.

reply to post by seabag


Kids might be burning your flags, but your government is burning your country! I think it's time you patriotic fanatics looked past the symbols and realized that this sh#t is bound to happen when a country gets hijacked by evil f#cks. Not to mention this is a minority. Are all blacks evil because some of them commit crimes? Are all Muslims violent because some of them are terrorists? Are all white people racist because some of them are racially prejudiced? Do I really need to elaborate on that point, here and now, in the year 2012?

Yeah, unfortunately, I probably do. Not all OWS supporters burn flags, and your blanketing of that "movement" as anti-American flag-burning commies is about as rational as the invasion of Iraq. For the record, I am not a OWS fanboy and I think what they're doing is futile or ineffective at best, even if they do have righteous intentions.

Look brother, these aren't communist extremists hell-bent on destroying America, despite what the well-dressed TV man says. They're just angry kids who don't know how to deal with their country's forced decline, probably because they're not very well-educated (the State's fault) and have a false impression on what's really going on and who's to blame and what to do about it (the Media's fault). A small number of them probably don't even know what they're yelling about, but just enjoy the excitement. Again, probably the State's fault.

Now, before you jump on my ass like a loyal patriot would - I don't condone flag burning. But I also don't give a f#ck for pieces of cloth that falsely represent your nation. Modern America and the America that flag used to represent are now two very different things. The only problem I see with these pictures is that these idiots aren't burning down the right targets. They're only wasting time, energy and good fire - whilst making "Good American Patriots" like yourself mad at your own people. So long as you take this crap personally, you will be too busy infighting to ever rescue your country from the free-fall it's in.

On a side-note, I take issue with your signature: "Being ready is not what matters. What matters is winning after you get there."

Do you really believe that ridiculous militarized rhetoric? What a bunch of rubbish. It's that blind devotion to your army puppet's whims that lead you into this mess in the first place. Being ready is ALL that matters, winning is completely irrelevant. "Ready" includes knowing what you're fighting about. But good soldiers and Americans don't follow such rational doctrine, do they? Only orders.

reply to post by TheAnarchist


I'll give you a star for the thoughtful response...nice work!

Kids might be burning your flags, but your government is burning your country! I think it's time you patriotic fanatics looked past the symbols and realized that this sh#t is bound to happen when a country gets hijacked by evil f#cks.

Trust me…I get it!!

I’m not going to be led into battle with TPTB prematurely by a bunch of angry, juvenile miscreants who want free college, wealth redistribution and a new styled America. 'If' and 'when' this country reaches a boiling point it will be patriotic Americans that want to restore the American constitution who will lead the charge!

Thanks for your concern!

reply to post by seabag

If they didn't act like idiots they'd never experience any police intervention.

Hah!

I have no sympathy for law breakers; they get what they've earned.

Sounds like you would have made a fine slave catcher.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by rockymcgilicutty

 

You are right they should just sit down hold hands.Then get tased and pepper sprayed.

Ridiculous. If they didn't act like idiots they'd never experience any police intervention. Police uphold LAW. If you experience police intervention you're breaking LAW. I have no sympathy for law breakers; they get what they've earned.

Stop lying, seabag.

While I've admitted myself before that Occupy often do the wrong thing, you've demonstrated that you aren't interested in being remotely objective, where they are concerned. It wouldn't matter what they did; you'd still be calling them smelly, filthy hippies who need to get a job.

I can live with you having your bias, although that is bad enough; but at least admit that you have it, FFS.

Originally posted by TheAnarchist
reply to post by seabag

 

Yeah, unfortunately, I probably do. Not all OWS supporters burn flags, and your blanketing of that "movement" as anti-American flag-burning commies is about as rational as the invasion of Iraq. For the record, I am not a OWS fanboy and I think what they're doing is futile or ineffective at best, even if they do have righteous intentions.

A little honesty, here. Unlike what Hitler tried to claim, I've always been aware that genuine nationalist socialism is a contradiction in terms. The Internationale is what the Left wants, primarily because their unholy Messiah, Karl Marx, wanted it first.

Of course, sometimes the Left aren't honest about that, and sometimes they don't even know that they want it themselves. "International solidarity," is the polite euphemism, these days. David Rockefeller and the gang who first put the idea into the Left's heads, have realised that world federalism isn't quite as easy a sell with the public as it used to be.

The reason why I don't believe that any intelligent Occupier is going to burn an American flag, is because they would realise that they have nothing to gain from it, and everything to lose. However, the Tea Party have long been well aware of the fact that Occupy belong on the opposite side of the political aisle to the founders of America, and even more, that most of Occupy's ideology is a foreign import; and they are dead right in that perception.

Bottom line:- I can accept that Occupy wouldn't burn the flag, but on an ideological level at least, it is dishonest to call them patriots.

reply to post by petrus4


Just a little clarity...

Occupy Oakland wasn't at this F*** the Fourth march, it had nothing to do with Occupy. OO and the people who want to include property destruction in their protests split off from each other. Detractors keep saying why don't they kick them out etc... and when they finally are actually separate (at least in the case of Oakland) they're still going to label the (in my opinion) wrong-doers as Occupy. The news articles had it wrong, I proved that pretty well to no avail. Seabag knows that he is wrong, he just doesn't seem to be the type of man that can admit it.

I can accept that Occupy wouldn't burn the flag

Some will, some won't... I wouldn't. I would prefer to reclaim the liberty that it used to represent, I would like to give it integrity and a kind of honor, that if we're really honest with ourselves, that it only ever had in the conceptual phase of America. I would like the American Flag to be a symbol of true greatness, not victory and "exceptionalism" by cheating and exploiting.

What we wouldn't and didn't do was destroy property.

reply to post by Xavier85


It's the young people telling you what they think. What exactly does the American Flag represent today?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by petrus4

 

Just a little clarity...

Occupy Oakland wasn't at this F*** the Fourth march, it had nothing to do with Occupy.

In an earlier post, I asserted as much.

Like I said, I'm aware that Occupy have nothing to gain from attacking elements of American jingoism, and everything to lose in PR terms from doing so. I suspect that, as you say about Seabag, a lot of conservatives secretly know that, (or could if they actually tried to think about it) but enjoy being able to think badly of Occupy too much, to be able to accept the idea.

Seabag and others like him want to view Occupy as domestic terrorists. If they admit that they might be wrong about Occupy, then they have to admit that they might be wrong about a whole lot of things.

Mind you, what makes it more difficult and clouded, is the fact that (IMHO anywayz) conservatives are not 100% wrong about viewing at least parts of Occupy as being radical Leftist. We've had that argument before, however.

I'll never understand flag waving/blind patriotism.
It's not just America, there are morons all over the world hating, beating and killing their brothers and sisters over pieces of cloth and the patriotism they symbolize.

In my understanding, OWS is about rejecting the status quo of a small number of super rich and powerful elite dictating the living standards and rules for everyone else, whilst failing to follow said rules themselves. My guess is some of OWS see the flag as representing the status quo, so they burn it - no real surprise or shock or horror there (unless of course you are one of those flag waving blindly patriotic peeps)

Now spraying 'Kill Cops' on buildings is childish, idiotic and completely counter productive IMO. However, the article claims 3 incidences of the graffiti, and how many OWS protesters are there in total? My guess is more than 6, in which case the graffiti is probably not representative of the mass opinion.

ETA: after reading more of the thread I see OWS probably isn't responsible for the OP's accusations, so I apologizing for spreading more disinfo, however, I still stand by my comments

Originally posted by RogerT3
I'll never understand flag waving/blind patriotism.
It's not just America, there are morons all over the world hating, beating and killing their brothers and sisters over pieces of cloth and the patriotism they symbolize.

The best part, where America is concerned, is that those waving their flags, never notice the small black print on the underside, which says, "Made in China." It gives me the proverbial trollface grin whenever I think of that; there is just as much as symbolism there, as there is in the flag itself.

In my understanding, OWS is about rejecting the status quo of a small number of super rich and powerful elite dictating the living standards and rules for everyone else, whilst failing to follow said rules themselves.

I don't know about the average rank and file Occupier, but the people who write their web sites are a lot like XPLodER. Hard core, radical Communists who insist on denying said Communism, while at the same time, insisting with equal adamancy that, as the song goes, "the Internationale unites the whole darn human race."

My guess is some of OWS see the flag as representing the status quo, so they burn it - no real surprise or shock or horror there (unless of course you are one of those flag waving blindly patriotic peeps)

It's internationalist hotheads at best, and false flag provocateurs who are intended to discredit Occupy in the minds of people who can't think critically, at worst. Like I said; among radical Leftists, you're far more likely to find internationalists, than people who are actually nationalistic Americans.

Now spraying 'Kill Cops' on buildings is childish, idiotic and completely counter productive IMO. However, the article claims 3 incidences of the graffiti, and how many OWS protesters are there in total? My guess is more than 6, in which case the graffiti is probably not representative of the mass opinion.

There don't need to be more than one. Most of the people who will see that graffiti, like Seabag, already desperately want to think badly of Occupy anyway, and will take any excuse they are given to do so. There only needs to be one such instance of said graffiti, and it probably wouldn't matter if we literally had footage of a uniformed cop spraying it themselves. Seabag and the other brainwashed, canine-human hybrid grunts on this forum, would insist that it had been Occupy, and that such only proved them right.

reply to post by petrus4

conservatives are not 100% wrong about viewing at least parts of Occupy as being radical Leftist

"Conservatives" are right, some Occupiers are Radical Left... that's not a point of contention and never was. Personally my only contention was about it being a Left movement by design. It has only become Left by lack of participation from the Right, their choice... it's cool. I don't see many true Conservatives debating this topic on this site though, they seem more Reactionary, the polar opposite of Radical Left.

By the way, you're lucky you edited your post
You seem to be seeking to moderate between but I think you are only accomplishing agitating both.

I don't know about the average rank and file Occupier, but the people who write their web sites are a lot like XPLodER. Hard core, radical Communists who insist on denying said Communism

It is denied because it doesn't fit. People generally don't deny their Ideology. The Communists among Occupy don't deny it, they proudly display it. Much of what Occupy is, is mixed ideology.

while at the same time, insisting with equal adamancy that, as the song goes, "the Internationale unites the whole darn human race."

People often misunderstand, as you are seeming to, what International Solidarity is... it's not one world government etc... it is a decision to reject exploitation. "An injury to one, is an injury to us all!" and really that can be easily simplified all the way down basic self preservation. Allowing the exploitation of even 1 person anywhere in the world can result in ones own self being exploited.

reply to post by RogerT3

ETA: after reading more of the thread I see OWS probably isn't responsible for the OP's accusations, so I apologizing for spreading more disinfo, however, I still stand by my comments

Huge star for that, thank-you.

reply to post by petrus4


you said,

I don't know about the average rank and file Occupier, but the people who write their web sites are a lot like XPLodER. Hard core, radical Communists who insist on denying said Communism, while at the same time, insisting with equal adamancy that, as the song goes, "the Internationale unites the whole darn human race."

i am not a hard core radical communist,
i am not a internationalist either,

wher do you get off?

have you ever asked me my opinion?

NO YOU HAVENT

so dont try to speak for me or my opinion, because you are clueless

xploder

reply to post by petrus4


you think capitalism is bailing out the big banks?

to big to fail? is that capitalism?

bankers crash the economy, and teachers and firemen are layed off as a result,
is that capitalism?

protesters are jailed why criminal bankers walk free,
is that justice? is that how capitalism is supposed to work

you call me a communist with answer this then you are just badly miss informed at best,
and trying to slander me at worst.

either way do some critical thinking before you label me or anyone else without having a clue as to what you are talking about.

i beleive you should keep your slander to yourself lest you say something truly damaging,
unless that was your intent.

you do not know me or my politics, so keep your trap shut about what i beleive

OK

xploder

reply to post by petrus4


when the 2008 financial crisis hit the whole world reeled at the losses for government funds,
the whole word accross had invested in morgage backed securities thru hedge funds,
one such head fund was our Accident compensation fund amoung others.

when the banks took the bail outs we took heavey losses thru the hedge fund mangers.
as had happened in the past, we knew to take the losses and expect those responciable
to be investigated and jailed, as had been the practice after the massive failure of instututional lending.

so the whole world indirctly through their govenments and thru hedge fund managers and through wall street banks
lost security in their retirements and investments.

this is compounded when the libour rate is manipulated in order to game the insurence market for complicated
instruments an inside edge, not to mention the fact that these libour rates drive the monthly price of a morgage repayments up for the
people of the world.

govenments and states were losing massive money on the insurence products BECAUSE the libour rates were gamed in their favour,
ie
they rigged the rates to minipulate the cost of the insurence hedges against loss.

do you understand capitalism?
i do
this is not it

you dare to call me a comunist with out having a clue as to why i follow free market capitalism?

xploder

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by TheAnarchist

 

I’m not going to be led into battle with TPTB prematurely by a bunch of angry, juvenile miscreants who want free college, wealth redistribution and a new styled America. 'If' and 'when' this country reaches a boiling point it will be patriotic Americans that want to restore the American constitution who will lead the charge!

Sure, I believe you, but it's your over-zealous approach that's going to lead your country in the same fascist totalitarian direction it's heading. Socialist or capitalist fascism makes no difference - the people will still be poor, spiritless and oppressed. The only thing that can stop this is if the HUMAN BEINGS of the Left and Right work together if only against your common enemy. No civil war or revolution ever succeeded by Americans yelling at each other. You don't have to agree on anything besides the fact that your country is in trouble. Not all your founding forefathers agreed on all points, either, but they understood that their binding blood as fellow Human Beings desiring True Freedom and Just Rights was more important than their petty differences.

All I'm saying is that your anger at an entire movement based on the actions of a few bad seeds is playing into TPTB's plans and desires just as much as the violence, conflict and smoking flags. I respect your passion but I don't like your approach, and I'd go out on a limb here and suggest that neither would your Forefathers. There's nothing wrong with patriotism until it begins to blind your judgement, and in my own experience on this planet, patriotism is usually as bad as religion in that regard. A hypocritical generalization on my behalf, sure, but one made with the intention of shedding light on the dangers of patriotism and not my hatred for patriots (as I don't hate patriots, I am just healthily weary of their energy which is often as misguided as these flag-burners').

I want to see America as Great and as Free as it once was, too, if only because the direction your country is heading in will drag all of us in the West (and a lot of the East) down with it, but also because I don't want to see 300 million fellow human beings treated like scum for the obscene gain of a few very bad eggs. And your country has massive potential to rise again if you all just calmed down and organized yourselves without descending into argument over philosophies. This includes the flag-burners just as much as the flag-wavers. We are devolving here, not evolving, and a backwards revolution is as effective as no revolution at all.

I just don't think wasting your time getting so worked up over a bunch of teenagers with matches and flags while pigs run your land into the ground is the best approach to restoring your country to its former glory. The flag-burners and occupy kids aren't your enemy, yet you treat them as such. TPTB that you hate have set those kids up from an early age through economic oppression and bad education to behave that way as an effective distraction for those they fear most - patriots. This is a dangerous situation for your country and evidence of growing civil unrest on the wrong side. The evil f#cks responsible for all this are laughing at you both, patriot and anti-American. To them, you're all the same. And in essence you probably are - you want constitutional freedom and the anti-Americans want a different brand of freedom, and you're both going to receive neither so long as this is how you "fight" for it.

But whatever, I've got my own country and my own stupid drunken racist population to worry about. Good luck with yours brother.

PS. - what is a "new styled" America? You can't fight progress in the name of comfort. Are you sure you're not just holding on to a dream that's long-gone? America will never be exactly as it was in the 1700s, constitutionally or socially, thanks to technology and social/cultural progression and racial diversity. The entire world has changed and there's no going back. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, lest we permit it to be.

Occupy might have had more support if they acted lawfully during protests. Burning the flag - while perhaps legal as "free speech" - is only going to make more and more Americans want to distance themselves from these radical Occupy protesters.

Instead, there is no clean cut agenda stating what it is exactly that Occupy wants to achieve. When Occupy protesters are interviewed, they sound like bumbling idiots high on drugs, who direct their anger at banks, government, business, and anyone else that they dream is persecuting them. Someone from Occupy will call this media bias. I have yet to hear an intelligent, coherent, and rational argument from any Occupy protester that would resonate with the American public.

When an Occupy protester does manage to garble a few words, they sound like radical Communists that want free housing, free education, etc. The average American is smart enough to recognize Communist activism, and will reject such speech.

This country needs to go back to its old-fashioned values.
That means hard work.
It means finding a job, or starting a business.
That means paying your bills and your mortgage on time, every time.
It means marriage, and making a lifetime commitment to your family - not shacking up and having kids before you say, "I do."
That means taking responsibility for your actions.
That means social activism is defined as donating time to your local community by supporting your local church or temple, and feeding the homeless.
It means donating your time to helping others through volunteer work.
It means educating yourself on your own dime, and not relying on handouts from others. Library cards are free - Get one, and go educate yourself.
That means getting a haircut, shaving, and looking like a normal human being, and not a punk that just got high on acid.
It means saying no to drugs, including alcohol and nicotine.
It means supporting your military, even if you disapprove of the war.

If all of the Occupy protesters put as much effort into building homes for the homeless through Habitat for Humanity or volunteering at soup kitchens as they do protesting, then I might have some sympathy for their cause. I might actually support their cause. They would do more for their local community if they spent their time, energy, and effort in non-profits feeding the homeless, and building houses for the homeless.

Angry at the banks because of foreclosures? Instead of protesting, why not have thousands of Occupy protesters build houses for Habitat for Humanity? I mean, all the hours you spend outside yelling and ranting and raving, when you could be building houses for the homeless instead. What a concept.

This is my beef with Occupy. Actions speak louder than words. You have shown your true colors, and it's not something that the average Joe American is going to support.

You get your panties in a twist when someone from (supposedly) OWS burns Flags. Which were no doubt made in China.

Yet you don't even bat an eyelash to the corporate and government policies that are stomping this country into the ground. You're the one that is selfish and pathetic. While you obsess over petty nonsense, and wish for these people to "receive a beating while you watch" (Jesus do you live in the past?), the rulers of this country are doing everything in their power to make sure your children have no future, beyond their say so.

You truly bring idiocy to something extreme and beyond. As usual, you come in here with the "authoritarian herd" of usual suspects. All of you are intelligent people, yet you stoop to such shallow, petty drivel, which suggests to me you are only here to play games.