OWS - Occupy Philly on 4th of July

reply to post by Kali74


So let me get this straight.

You (Occupy) want;
Socialised Medicine
And end to wealth disparity
End to corruption in business and government
To educate others in your beliefs.

your message

Message:

We the people shall no longer allow our silencing as policy and law is passed and enacted that only favor the very wealthy and by means of exploiting the rest of us.

Do I have it right?

reply to post by beezzer


Is this you moving the goal posts again?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Is this you moving the goal posts again?

No. Just trying to find out.

What did I write that you (Occupy) disagrees with?

reply to post by beezzer


Nothing there, I just don't trust you.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Nothing there, I just don't trust you.

Really.

reply to post by beezzer


I'm not sure what's so funny.
I don't trust you.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

I'm not sure what's so funny.
I don't trust you.

I'm trying to understand Occupy. I'm trying to understand the motivation, the message. I write what you stated and the immediate reaction is to say that I'm changing goalposts, and that you don't trust me.

I find that amusing.

reply to post by beezzer


I don't trust that you are trying to understand Occupy especially considering that you keep pretending that the things in my post haven't been mentioned or discussed, essentially, on here before. I don't trust your claim of trying to understand when you ignore threads related Occupy written by Occupiers or supporters. Not to mention if you really wanted to know you could perform your own research looking to our side for information once. I don't trust you because you drive by post with insults to the people who participate, completely irregardless of how many of us might be reading it.

Tell me how you have given me any reason whatsoever to have faith that you're not going to just cherry pick what you can and dismiss the rest?

By the way I didn't state that you were moving the goal posts. I asked.

reply to post by Kali74
Occupy has been famous for changing their own goal posts.

How many times have this been posted?
"That's not Occupy"
"That's not our message"
"It's a GOP plant"
"Some may have said that, but we don't believe it"

Hell. How can I take Occupy seriously when the members aren't even on the same page?

I'd love to debate the actual message of Occupy, if it can be agreed upon, wht their bloody message is!

reply to post by beezzer

"That's not Occupy"

Maybe because it isn't?

"That's not our message"

Would you by chance be referring to responses to "interpretations" by right wing media?

"It's a GOP plant"

More likely to be cops or FBI but you can't really deny both have happened. Maybe not by the GOP but again, media. FOX was caught dropping drug paraphernalia in order to portray "drug addicted hippies" at camps. Others showing only interviews with morons or posing as morons.

None of that is us moving the goal posts. It's denying propaganda. Or should we not do that?

reply to post by Kali74


Ok lets try some basic things Kali, I bet you will be surprised at the common ground that can be found.

1. Should we have a bigger government or a smaller government? Should government be more involved in an individual's life or less involved?

2. What is the best way to hand the Budget situations at the Federal, State and Local levels? Do we trim spending or increase revenue raising? What would you trim? What would you add more too? How would you raise more revenue and what would you do with the monies?

3. Since you mentioned student loans..... what do you think should be done with them? How will it be paid for?

reply to post by beezzer


The original goal of the occupy movement was to protest the fraudulent practices of Wall Street and hopefully encourage Obama to start regulating Wall Street again and bring it to justice. However, it started using questionable tactics in an attempt to bully Obama and Wall Street into submission and started allowing Socialists to march with them. That's when the message got muddied.

Overall, I agree with their original goal. Wall Street does need to be held accountable for their actions and fraud, but the administration won't do anything about it.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

I'm not sure what's so funny.
I don't trust you.

I'm trying to understand Occupy. I'm trying to understand the motivation, the message.

No, you aren't, beezzer; but assuming hypothetically that you were telling the truth, here, dispensing with the usual conservative stereotypes about Occupy, might be a good place to start.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Kali74

 

So let me get this straight.

You (Occupy) want;
Socialised Medicine
And end to wealth disparity
End to corruption in business and government
To educate others in your beliefs.

your message

Message:

We the people shall no longer allow our silencing as policy and law is passed and enacted that only favor the very wealthy and by means of exploiting the rest of us.

Do I have it right?

Don't forget that they also want to be absolved of all student loan debt and want free college for all. That's just one of many so called goals of the movement. If anyone is moving the goalposts, its the movement itself. The goalposts vary from one city to another. Occupy Scranton wants free paper products for all

reply to post by beezzer


Who cares what Beezzers motivations may or may not be?
His basic questions are valid and remain unanswered.
If the OWS answers were legitimate, there would be no fear to answer them.

I think Beezzer should challange OWS to a rumble in the fight forum.
If they can't even answer simple questions and they use the excuse
of his supposed intent as their reason .... it would be a hoot of a rumble!!

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Kali74

 

Occupy has been famous for changing their own goal posts.

How many times have this been posted?
"That's not Occupy"
"That's not our message"
"It's a GOP plant"
"Some may have said that, but we don't believe it"

Hell. How can I take Occupy seriously when the members aren't even on the same page?

I'd love to debate the actual message of Occupy, if it can be agreed upon, wht their bloody message is!

Clearly you are completely new to the concept of freedom of thought and opinion. Let me educate you on something...

Unlike the Tea Party, the Occupy movement is made up of republicans, democrats, non-political individuals, socialists, communists, mothers, fathers, students, laborers, lawyers, teachers, grandmothers... They all have their own opinions and beliefs, they are not controlled by a party of billionaires with one script to read from. They actually have political thought that goes beyond "I agree with my party".

Imagine this on a larger scale and you have society, millions of people all with their own unique opinion. For example, I can agree that true capitalism is a good system, but I can state with authority that bailing out banks and corporations is not capitalism. Someone else will refuse to accept that capitalism is a good system, but they will also agree that bailing out the banks and corporations is not capitalism.

We can agree on the central issue, but not always the surrounding aspects of that issue.

I can understand why others would not trust you. The motivations of Occupy are obvious to most. It's about economic disparity, inequality in law, corporate ownership of government. People who suggest that they don't understand what the Occupy message is are either ignorant beyond belief, or they are simply trying to attack it for their own ends.

I personally don't think you are ignorant beyond belief, I think you are deliberately suggesting that you don't know what the message of Occupy is because you want something to attack.

Regardless of your own opinions on Occupy, it is out of your control. It's inevitable that as more and more people become unemployed, more become homeless and more become desperate the movement will grow until the social system breaks.

Occupy in London was widely criticized by the wealthy middle classes last year, and now the Libor scandal is out and the wealthy middle class is contracting too, more are agreeing with the central message of Occupy. Nothing can stop it, it's growing with every revelation about the economic divide and it's turning into a class war.

The central message of Occupy - in my opinion - is that the economic divide is unacceptable. Corporations own our governments. This needs to change.

If you're too ignorant to understand that, then there is simply no hope for you. As I said, I don't think you are that ignorant, I just think you're being a troll.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by beezzer

 

Who cares what Beezzers motivations may or may not be?
His basic questions are valid and remain unanswered.
If the OWS answers were legitimate, there would be no fear to answer them.

I think Beezzer should challange OWS to a rumble in the fight forum.
If they can't even answer simple questions and they use the excuse
of his supposed intent as their reason ....

it would be a hoot of a rumble!!

edit on 7/5/2012 by FlyersFan because: typo

I've already issued a challenge in the debate forum.
Tea Party v Occupy!

Originally posted by detachedindividual
. . . . . . The motivations of Occupy are obvious to most. It's about economic disparity, inequality in law, corporate ownership of government. . . . . . . The central message of Occupy - in my opinion - is that the economic divide is unacceptable. Corporations own our governments. This needs to change.. . . . . .

Just to clarrify without your insults, this is what their message is then?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by detachedindividual
. . . . . . The motivations of Occupy are obvious to most. It's about economic disparity, inequality in law, corporate ownership of government. . . . . . . The central message of Occupy - in my opinion - is that the economic divide is unacceptable. Corporations own our governments. This needs to change.. . . . . .

Just to clarrify without your insults, this is what their message is then?

That is my opinion of what Occupy stands for. The common thread throughout the protests is the desire to see corporate money out of politics. This also includes the desire to close the economic divide where a small minority controls a majority of a nations wealth.

I'm sorry if you thought I was insulting you, I don't see where I did other than my belief that you are trolling for an argument and planning to use all the classic conservative dung as ammunition.
I stated that I don't believe you are ignorant, and I don't see being called ignorant of something as an insult either. I am ignorant to the mating habits of the Amazonian Red Backed Tree Frog.

reply to post by detachedindividual
To you and any other follower of "Occupy"; in order to accurately debate such an ideology, I have to know WHAT I'm debating against. Gathering information, learning about the topic at hand maybe considered trolling to those who are weak-minded, but to most, it is the accumilation of data that is used to form an opinion.

Not the lack, thereof.