OWS - Occupy Philly on 4th of July

Comeon now ... exactly what good does occupying Independence Mall on the 4th of July do? It doesn't change anything in DC and it only disrupts Americans wanting to celebrate the 4th of July with a parade and fireworks in Philly. We had plans to go to the parade and the Constitution Center on the 4th. We've done it other years and had hoped to do it this year. Now we are going to change our plans so we don't get hassled by a bunch of dippy-hippie-wannabes. Philly now won't be getting our money on the 4th. The cheese steak place in the Bourse building won't be getting our lunch money either. All you OWS people are doing is hurting the small business man and making families distance themselves from your message. We will be taking our family outting day down to the boardwalk at the beach now .. either Rehoboth or Ocean City Maryland. Both have fireworks. Neither have Occupiers.

OWS ... get out of Philly; get out of Los Angeles; get out of all the other cities and get yourselves to Washington DC where you belong. Do you really think anyone in DC cares that you are occupying Philly or L.A. or anyplace else? No. They are just glad you aren't in DC.

WSJ - National Occupy Gathering set for 4th of July in Philly

Occupy groups from across the country are headed to Philadelphia for a national gathering on Independence Mall, seeking to unify their far-flung movement against economic inequality a half-year after police evicted protesters from encampments in Philadelphia, Los Angeles, New York and other cities. The event, which starts Saturday and runs through July 4, is expected to bring about 1,500 protesters for marches, speakers and camping during the city's annual Independence Day festivities.

That has Philadelphia officials bracing for extra people during a week that already brings more than 1 million tourists to town for concerts, fireworks and other celebrations. While the Occupy Philadelphia protests last year were largely peaceful, the city eventually became frustrated with protesters' refusal to leave a City Hall plaza and police evicted those who remained in late November; several dozen protesters were arrested in the raid's aftermath.

Occupy Philly Website

reply to post by FlyersFan


How many of those so-called "small businesses" are actually that though? I'll bet that 80% of the stores there are part of a chain, and every penny you spend is immediately sucked out of your country. A minute % is then paid back in wages while the CEO's and all senior staff enjoy 0% tax and obscene lavish lifestyles for doing f all.

I'll agree that Occupy is off the mark in many respects, but that's only because the idiot public are too comfortable and don't want to be "inconvenienced" by a protest. Occupy should be winning people over, even the idiots who would have them locked up for expressing their opinions because they get in the way.

But then it's always the same in America isn't it? Protest is great, you have the freedom to do it, but the moment you delay my trip to fatten up on some corporate burgers you're the scum of the Earth and you should have no rights. Inconvenience me and you're no longer an American with the right to protest, your an inconvenience who should be silenced.

I think they need to pick better battles, but I also think others need to grow the f up and accept that they won't agree with every protest. Some things are more important than munching on our favorite snack, and if you'd deny your fellow Citizens the right to protest simply because they get in your way or inconvenience you one day a year then you're no better than a despot.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
the idiot public are too comfortable and don't want to be "inconvenienced" by a protest.

A protest in DC makes sense. A protest in Philly on the 4th does not.
It most definately IS an inconvenience TO ME & MY FAMILY having them in Philly on the 4th.
If having them there did any good .. I'd be for it. But it doesn't do any good. DC would do good.
BTW ... Seeing the obvious about this doesn't make me part of any 'idiot public' ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


I don't get it...why Philly? Like you said; Washington D.C. makes more sense.

I am thinking too...ok so they want to have an Occupy convention and they want to have it in Philly...but why oh why on the 4th of July? Don't they realize they are going to ruin many peoples planned holiday? Or...don't they care.

I feel for you and your family.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by detachedindividual
the idiot public are too comfortable and don't want to be "inconvenienced" by a protest.

A protest in DC makes sense. A protest in Philly on the 4th does not.
It most definately IS an inconvenience TO ME & MY FAMILY having them in Philly on the 4th.
If having them there did any good .. I'd be for it. But it doesn't do any good. DC would do good.
BTW ... Seeing the obvious about this doesn't make me part of any 'idiot public' ...

In YOUR opinion.

So are you one of those nimby people? Not In My Back Yard?

"Protest is great, you have the right, just make sure I agree with you and you don't get in my way when I want to go and pray at the alter of consumerism. If you do then I'll brand you useless and cheer on the thug cops beating the crap out of you."

It's the American way.

No matter how you spin it, you're saying that people only have the right to protest if you agree with them and their actions. You would stop a protest because it inconveniences you in some imagined way (you don't know that any action they would take WILL actually be an inconvenience, you're just assuming that it will).

Why is a few people protesting more of an inconvenience to you than the thousands of people who will be there anyway?

In my estimation, you just enjoy the opportunity to attack the "hippie" Occupy movement, just like all the other right-wingers on ATS with labels like "commie" and "leftie". There are going to be thousands of people there that day, but all those bodies are not an inconvenience to you and your family. But someone expressing an opinion - which is their right - is to be attacked?

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I don't get it...why Philly? Like you said; Washington D.C. makes more sense.

I am thinking too...ok so they want to have an Occupy convention and they want to have it in Philly...but why oh why on the 4th of July? Don't they realize they are going to ruin many peoples planned holiday? Or...don't they care.

I feel for you and your family.

How is a protest "ruining" the 4th of July?

Wow, if all it takes to ruin your holiday is a few people using their right to protest something they believe in no wonder so many Americans are popping pills to keep them sane!

Sorry, this debate is now officially pathetic.
You should be supporting the right to protest, not deciding for other people that their argument is invalid because you don't get it.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
So are you one of those nimby people? Not In My Back Yard?

No. I"m one of those SMART people that says - take the protest to where it does some good. It does NO GOOD to have it in Philly where it just harms small business and it just is a bunch of noise that does nothing but interferes with families enjoying a holiday.

No matter how you spin it, you're saying that people only have the right to protest if you agree with them and their actions.

:shk: Show me EXACTLY where I said that they have no right to protest because I don't agree with them. Good luck with that. Your spin of what I said = EPIC FAIL.

They have a right to protest. I have a right to call their protest what it is ... misplaced and just stupid. It does NO GOOD to have it in Philly. It does no good and it alienates people. It should be in DC where it could do some good. THAT is what I said. You should go back and read the thread. Obviously you missed the whole point.

reply to post by FlyersFan


And who the hell are you to say where people can and cannot go. It's a gathering more than a protest, there are marches planned, but not on the 4th. Why shouldn't some Occupiers gather at the birthplace of Liberty? How ironic that you're condemning Liberty at that place on that date. If you hate Liberty so much maybe it is you who doesn't "deserve" to be there.

So I thank-you on behalf of my brothers and sisters for not subjecting them to one more Fascism enabler. I wouldn't worry too much about small businesses either, I'm pretty sure that Occupy as a group will bring in more money than your family.

Go ahead and protest, sing your chants, do whatever you want - you have the right.

Should be doing this where it counts the most, at Washington - or heck, go to where these bankers / politicians live and protest there. All your doing is ruining the holiday for some folks and any message you wish to convey to the public is lost, in my opinion.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
How is a protest "ruining" the 4th of July?

Ever been to Independence Mall on the 4th? We have. 1500 protesters crammed into that area during the parade with crowds and crowds of families trying to enjoy themselves ... that ruins the parade and the flavor of the day. No one wants to watch a parade while having idiots shout and carry signs interrupting the day. It's very simple to understand.

Wow, if all it takes to ruin your holiday is a few people using their right to protest

1500+ protesters crammed into Indepedence Mall are not 'a few people'

Sorry, this debate is now officially pathetic.

Sorry, but your continued spin that people somehow said that OWS 'can't protest', is what is pathetic.

You should be supporting the right to protest,

No one said they shouldn't have a right to protest. Why you are stuck on that thought is strange. We said it's STUPID to protest in Philly because it DOES NO GOOD. And we want a nice holiday without 1500+ yutz's carrying on in a useless protest while we are trying to have nice family time on an American holiday in a historic part of the country. It's just that simple.

not deciding for other people that their argument is invalid because you don't get it.

Again .. no one said that their argument isn't valid. Get a grip. We said it is USELESS to protest in Philly because it does no good. Go to DC where it belongs. The protests in Philly just harm small business and turn off the people who are there to see a parade and fireworks.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

How is a protest "ruining" the 4th of July?

The unfortunate truth the way I see it, it's because the true meaning of the 4th of July has been lost over the generations. It's no longer a day to reflect and appreciate just what the revolution was all about. The hardships the men and women of our revolution endured, the very real possibility of dying for a concept they believed so deeply in. Instead, it has become about how many burgers you can consume or how drunk you can get. It's about rushing to get a good seat to watch the fireworks and, apparently, how not to be inconvenienced while at a community gathering.

The symbolizm that this gathering is in Philly is apparently lost on some. The symbolizm that there is a group of people who are attempting what some see as a peaceful revolution to change what they don't like is apparently lost on some as well. Shame really.

The OWS folks are not bringing in cannons, pitchforks or muskets to beat back the oppressive rule of the British, but their message is the same and whether you love 'em or hate 'em, I would think that everyone could recognize this. They are at least attempting to be heard and to make a difference in a world that is really out of balance on so many levels instead of lamenting the fact that their lunch time philly cheese steak sandwich plans now lay in ruins because of a bunch of "dippy-hippy" protesters.

Originally posted by Kali74
And who the hell are you to say where people can and cannot go.

And who the hell are you to say that I told people where they can or cannot go?
I never said any such thing. Get a grip. I said that them protesting there was USELESS
and ANNOYING. And it is.

How ironic that you're condemning Liberty at that place on that date.

LIAR. I never condemned liberty. Show EXACTLY where I did that. Good luck with that. :shk:

So I thank-you on behalf of my brothers and sisters ..

Oh gawd .. you are one of them. Figures.

I'm pretty sure that Occupy as a group will bring in more money than your family.

I'm pretty sure that Occupy as a group will COST more money than our family would have brought in.

Outbreak of thefts at OWS
OWS - Biggest problem is Stealing
OWS - Sexual Assault, Thefts, Hate Plaque movement
OWS - Theft Biggest Problem
OWS Harms Small Business
The Cost of OWS

Originally posted by FlyersFan
No one said they shouldn't have a right to protest. Why you are stuck on that thought is strange. We said it's STUPID to protest in Philly because it DOES NO GOOD. And we want a nice holiday without 1500+ yutz's carrying on in a useless protest while we are trying to have nice family time on an American holiday in a historic part of the country. It's just that simple.

I'm stuck on that thought because you're directly criticizing a peaceful protest because it "inconveniences" you.

Others have already stated the irony of people complaining about protest on the 4th, it's hypocritical.

You don't have a say in where and when people can gather to protest. And while I initially agreed with you that Occupy should choose their battles more appropriately to avoid negativity like this, I actually now support them.

I hope they DO get in your way. I hope they DO inconvenience you as much as possible on that day.

Why? Because far too many people are so self involved they would rather it all just went away so they can have an easy life. We've seen it on ATS plenty of times - people rant and rave about the right to protest when it's something they agree with 100%. But if it's something they are ignorant about, or something they feel is attached in some way to a political view they don't subscribe to, they suddenly abandon their belief that all Americans are equal and have the same rights and want to have that freedom reserved for people who share their views.

Of all the things happening right now, this is nothing. If this is such a major deal for you, I would seriously consider getting a hobby that creates some adrenaline. Disruption for one day, and an apt day at that, should not be a problem for the average person.

Most people would suck it up and deal with it.

Better stay home and watch TV on the 4th Twinkie boy.....you wouldn't want to become collateral damage of OWS.

Too bad Dick Clark is dead, maybe Paris Hilton will be the grand marshall for the 4th of July Parade/Ball Drop/Fireworks Display this year.

Oh boo hoo. Nothing shows the spirit of patriotism more than going to a place that is dedicated to mass consumerism.

Maybe you should go and explain to these wannabe commies that a true American shows his loyalty to America by buying cheap foreign made products.

reply to post by FlyersFan

And who the hell are you to say that I told people where they can or cannot go?

You said:

OWS ... get out of Philly; get out of Los Angeles; get out of all the other cities and get yourselves to Washington DC where you belong.

Unless I suddenly forgot the English language, that is you saying that they can go to DC but not Philly.

I said that them protesting there was USELESS and ANNOYING. And it is.

Again, they are not protesting or marching on the 4th. They will be gathering near Independence Mall to host an open to all discussion on Direct Democracy and brainstorming ideas on how to give a bigger voice in government to the people.

The Occupy National Gathering is a nationally coordinated event which will take place from June 30th to July 4th in Philadelphia. The Occupy movement will convene the Occupy National Gathering in the vicinity of Philadelphia’s Independence Mall for a week of direct actions, movement building and the creation of a vision for a democratic future. The National Gathering will kick off with a massive march with Healthcare-Now! and will conclude on July 5th when attendees will join the Guitarmy for a 99 mile march from Philadelphia to Wall Street in Lower Manhattan.

Perhaps the highlight of the gathering will be the crafting of a Vision of a Democratic Future. On July 4th the National Gathering (#natgat) will facilitate a visioning process designed to allow all voices to be heard while allowing repeat visions to organically rise to the top. Together, by all those who choose to participate, a Vision of a Democratic Future will be conceived. Learn more about this and more here.

Occupywallst.org

LIAR. I never condemned liberty. Show EXACTLY where I did that. Good luck with that.

Again, you said:

OWS ... get out of Philly; get out of Los Angeles; get out of all the other cities and get yourselves to Washington DC where you belong.

In other words go exercise your Liberty elsewhere.

Oh gawd .. you are one of them. Figures.

And proud of it.

I'm pretty sure that Occupy as a group will COST more money than our family would have brought in.

Outbreak of thefts at OWS OWS -
Biggest problem is Stealing OWS -
Sexual Assault, Thefts, Hate Plaque movement OWS - Theft Biggest Problem
OWS Harms Small Business
The Cost of OWS

Most of that was pure crap, I'm sorry some of it landed on you in the corporate media spin.

It won't be the only gathering on Independence Mall, however. While members of this Occupy group say they won't apply for a permit to demonstrate, the National Parks Service has approved another permit for the "99% Working Group." The Mall also will be crowded with delegations from two tea party groups and participants in Philadelphia's annual parade.
On July 5, Occupy group members intend to embark on a 99-mile march to Wall Street.

Newsworks.o rg

Maybe they shouldn't go either hmm?

Originally posted by poppycock
Better stay home and watch TV on the 4th Twinkie boy.....

I'm a girl. We'll be going to the beach instead. The boardwalk .. with fireworks and no OWS.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
I'm stuck on that thought because you're directly criticizing a peaceful protest because it "inconveniences" you.

That's all you get from reading the thread, eh? Brilliant. (sarcasm).
You missed all the part about how it is USELESS? That it does NO GOOD? That it should be in DC where it belongs? That it cost the city money? That it harms small business? That the country itself, in large part, finds them obnoxious? (your attitude on this clearly shows why the country find OWS obnoxious) You missed all that ... how very interesting. Cherry pick much?

In addition to all that, OWS does inconvenience me and my family .. and everyone else going to the celebrations in Philly .. and the small business'. It's a fact. We don't like to be inconvenienced for something that has NO MERIT and does no good. It's just that simple.

You don't have a say in where and when people can gather to protest.

I never claimed to. I stated FACTS. OWS in Philly is just useless and it's annoying the very people that they are supposed to be winning over. It's just disruptive without any good that will come of it. It will cost the city money and give nothing in return. It's very simple. Your claim that I'm dictating where people can or can't protest is just childish DEFLECTION on your part from the very real issues I raised.

I hope they DO get in your way. I hope they DO inconvenience you as much as possible on that day.

Typical knee jerk OWS obnoxious attitude. This is why most of America thinks OWS is ignorant.

If this is such a major deal for you, ....

Grow up.

Most people would suck it up and deal with it.

Most people would be able to handle someone pointing out the flaws of an organization without getting all personally insulted. Too bad you can't handle the truth about OWS in Philly.

Originally posted by Kali74
Unless I suddenly forgot the English language, that is you saying that they can go to DC but not Philly.

Like I have any authority to make them stop? HA! NO!
I am fully within my rights to tell them to take their protests to where they belong ... DC.

Originally posted by Kali74
They will be gathering near Independence Mall

And causing disruptions. They do everywhere they go.

Maybe they shouldn't go either hmm?

No they shouldn't. They should take it elsewhere.

And the links I provided are true.
OWS is plagued with theft and sexual assaults and crime.
I know .. the truth of it hurts the OWS-BOTS. Deal with it.

What are they protesting?

Liberty?
Independence?

Or is it corruption in DC or Wall Street?

I'm confused.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Eat a few more twinkies, apparently they missed some brain cells. Most of the trouble with the camps has been discussed at very long length here on the forums, either your attention span is very small or your memory is, or you just didn't bother to learn the truth. I'll re-educate you.

Homeless people were never turned away from Occupy camps, free food was offered to them as well as safety in numbers for living outside.

Police began dropping just released prisoners at Occupy camps.

Upon secondary interviews with local businesses after the Zucotti Park eviction, many said, it was never the protesters it was the barricades and all the cops directing foot traffic, some of them even miss the Zucotti Park camp.

The cost of Occupy in cities where they camped is purely the fault of the cities that chose to police them 24/7. Mind you, they police were not looking for crime in the camps or even taking reports from Occupiers when reporting a crime, but arresting anyone they possibly could on marches and protests.

Don't even try the assumption of intellectual superiority with me by calling me a bot when you're the one that can't handle freedom and liberty. You're the sheep that needs a nanny state, not me.