Obamacare amounts to slavery...

reply to post by CB328


How does me, not wanting to be forced to pay for you make me unaccountable?
I'd say you, not willing to pay for yourself makes you the unaccountable one.

Healthcare is not a right. It is a service, a service that each individual should pay for. No individual person or Government entity should have the ability to force anyone to pay for someone else. .

By that logic, I can call buying a brand new 3d HDTV a right. Please sir or ma'am, give me my $1,500 to pay for it. I know you worked for the money, but after all, it's my right to own one.

This tax, along with Obama will go down in November and history will state this is when America started afresh and begin balancing their budget. Obama will only be a footnote in history however his policies will take some time to eradicate sadly.

Wake up you sleepy people.

reply to post by Masterjaden


I can see your anti-slavery, so i don't imagine you'll be using any health services if you get sick and are dying. Afterall would'nt that be taking advantage of slaves if you did?

reply to post by lokdog


First I would like to point out that the medical professionals get their money. They are not enslaved to take care of people it is their job and now whether someone has insurance or not the hospitals will get paid. The issue is that half of the country do not pay taxes, so the people who will 'opt' out will most likely be 'non-taxpayers'. Where does this financial burden now go? You cannot shift the penalty to the taxpayer who has health insurance; so in turn it just ends up like all other unsustainable systems. People may finally realize the majority of Americans live unhealthy lifestyles when they see their premiums skyrocket and maybe they will start to realize the burden of lowering costs is ultimately on the individual and not the government mandating you to throw money at the problem.

I actually facepalmed when I saw this. No joke, Obamacare does not equal slavery, it is even further from it. You know what's funny, back in colonial America some people did get denied healthcare, guess who they were? Slaves.

As for doctors and the Hippocratic Oath, maybe you should actually read it. The more commonly used Oath, created by Dr. Louis Lasagna (I am not kidding) reads like this:

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

Obamacare does not spell out slavery for doctors and medical personnel, if anything, the 3 million more people who are now getting medical insurance can ease their workload across the nation by getting something looked at before it becomes a great, big, messy problem that requires three times the personnel to treat. For example, anything in Reddit's terrifyingly gross "r/popping" section.

Peace.

I'm confused, how much money are your doctors loosing in this?
In Australia (and I will remind you every other western nation other than the USA) we have socialised healthcare. We have a public sector which anyone can access, and a private sector where you can get insurance. The doctors in both get paid a hell of a lot of money (plus excellent pensions). You can always choose to go get a job in the private sector. Also no offence, but I believe health care is a right, and as a doctor it's your duty to help. Would you be ok if at an eatery one day your wife or another family member began to choke, and a doctor was there but asked for a check before he saved them? What if he just said 'nah i'm on my lunch break' then your wife died? I mean if he does it against his will it'd be slavery right, so it'd be ok for him to let your wife die.

reply to post by mr3dboot


What you're not understanding is that you're not the only one paying the tax, everyone is. That means the person you just paid for will be paying for your next visit to the hospital as well.

The tv thing isn't even comparable to health care, one is essential to life and the other is not. What does $2,000 divided by 300 million people equal out to? Like I said, that is a terrible analogy. I believe that this shouldn't have been a federal issue, it should have been handled state by state, so you know where your money is going.

reply to post by Masterjaden

It's worse than slavery because we are being forced to subsidize people who are too lazy to work and pay for their own health care. A similar system is already in place in MA and it has just about bankrupted this big lib state. No one accounted for the fact that when EVERYONE had health insurance they would be running to the emergency room with head colds and other nonsense. Health care in MA has gone waaaay downhill and the price has skyrocketed.
Prepare to join us or vote for Romney.

Originally posted by starshift
I think the OP could have worded this more in line to a form of soft slavery or free range slavery. It's not chains and whips that most people have been programmed to visualize slavery as. This is much more subtle and it starts at an early age with programming from govt schools and media projections. We are told america is so great and free yet is the most corrupt and broken system of govt out there. If the education is not enough, spike the kool aid with fluoride and get people on pharmaceuticals. Try not paying your taxes and then tell me you are not living under a form of slavery.

edit on 1-7-2012 by starshift because: (no reason given)

I agree. Frederick Douglass said something to the effect of an income tax being worse than straight up chains slavery because it gave the illusion of freedom.

Soooo, If this is slavery...what was it called when any person could walk into an ER and get treated, regardless of whether or not they could afford it?
You know, like how it's been since you were born...

reply to post by Peruvianmonk

Yes, it is theft or your are a slave and they let you keep a portion of your labor

we are already slaves. the only difference is the insurance cartel will make more money, while still blocking any semblance of patient-centered medical care. universal healthcare never should have been about insurance companies and hmo's in the first place. the medical profession is corrupted by greed and bureacracy

reply to post by Kaploink


Lol yea I know. People slag the NHS off, but my experiences and my families have been very very good with the NHS and the only complaints I've had are when I've had to wait a long time when I have an injury which isn't particularly serious (obviously more injured people get priority) Also the level of care is MUCH higher than the global average and I think a lot of British people would choose to have medical work done in the UK by the NHS rather than a random health service abroad.

When I hear the media in America saying that nationalised health services are awful, slow and have poorly levels of care it always baffles me as America for one of the most developed countries on the planet has been ranked behind plenty of much much much poorer countries in healthcare, like Mexico for example as the average healthcare is much lower in the states (despite the rich having access to good health care)

They also say that doctors have to work for a lot less so nobody will want to work in medicine anymore. Well When I worked building Southampton general hospital I noticed many young doctors and older ones alike leaving and arriving everyday in their sports cars, many of which cost many times my annual salary. They are still paid very well, it is the lower tier workers who I feel for the most in this case,

I feel very lucky living in the UK, Me and my family have nothing but great experiences with the NHS and I have no idea what it would have cost me in America for the treatments that I have had or the health insurance.

I can tell you though that when we live in such a developed country where there is amply money to save peoples lives when they can not afford to pay for the costly treatment themselves it makes me sick to think that poorer people are just left to die, or left with body parts not fully functioning because they don't have enough to afford the surgery despite all the facilities and people being readily available etc etc etc it makes me sick. From a financial perspective it makes sense anyway to keep the population fir and healthy = more tax money (they can't oay tax i they are dead/disabled etc) anyone thought about that?!?! The faster you go back to work the faster you are paying the gvt tax again, the longer you live = the more tax you pay the govt

reply to post by badnezz


Just look at how the healthcare system was set up in the states. When congress made the decision something like 2/3d's of congressmen left very soon after and formed medical companies or joined ones already formed to rake in the massive profits that were now up for grabs. IMO it's insanely wrong and immoral and they are lucky they got away with it for so long and are not held accountable for countless preventable deaths and illnesses over the years.

How America calls itself a first world nation when it cannot even look after its own citizens welfare and health is beyond me. To the OP, name all the first world nations EXCEPT America that does not have a National Health System in place. This should tell you that the current US Healthcare system is morally and ethically wrong. A Government of any nation's first role is to look after its citizens if it wishes to be called a civilised nation ........ oh, I forgot, you are still new at this Nation building malarkey!

Let it collapse, Let the richer get taxed more. Aren't we all slaves to something nowadays, whether it be your own parents or your own jobs. Wake the f*ck up people & see what really is going on!

Originally posted by Wotan
How America calls itself a first world nation when it cannot even look after its own citizens welfare and health is beyond me. To the OP, name all the first world nations EXCEPT America that does not have a National Health System in place. This should tell you that the current US Healthcare system is morally and ethically wrong. A Government of any nation's first role is to look after its citizens if it wishes to be called a civilised nation ........ oh, I forgot, you are still new at this Nation building malarkey!

edit on 1/7/12 by Wotan because: addition

Yea, but it takes time. Remember that you had to give 'em all back because of the non ability to control what you conquered. So you , in essence were new at nation building in you own right. We are all bozo's on this bus today. I will bet you that when the dust falls, welfare and health care In the U.S. for the common citizen will be the envy of most other nations on this planet. That is the way things seem to work here. We do it late, but get it right.

Originally posted by Masterjaden

No it is not... Break it down into premises and try to prove any of the premises false.. You can't.. It is perfectly valid...

Jaden

Epic logic fail.

By definition premises are truth claims that can be proven either true or false. If your assertions are "unfalsifiable," then they are not premises. If you don't have premises, you don't have a logical argument. If you don't have a logical argument, it cannot be "valid."

Infallibility is for dogmatists, not for logicians.

Originally posted by xEphon
Soooo, If this is slavery...what was it called when any person could walk into an ER and get treated, regardless of whether or not they could afford it?
You know, like how it's been since you were born...

Obamacare is government theft,... The idea that healthcare is a right is slavery.... It doesn't matter how it's implemented.

If the government is telling hospitals and healthcare practitioners that they have no choice but to treat people then that is slavery or indentured servitude...because they are forcing people at the point of a gun and threat of loss of life and liberty that they HAVE to work...

Jaden

I didn't read all the posts so I apologize if this has been brought up.

Some doctors want cash payment

This USA Today article was posted in 2004. Why is this relevant?

Even before Obamacare doctors saw the insurance companies absolutely and blindly raping average americans. Not only were they being screwed over but they saw how the patients were being screwed over.

It just got bigger.

Government should not have their hands in the profits of healthcare. If you don't think it's a profitable business, please move on and don't bother commenting.

Do you want to know why your doctor charges you 200 dollars to look in your ear? They have to, after insurance companies and the hospital fee's get imposed they get 20 bucks. The doctor that spent half his life in school isn't going to cut you a deal and take money out of his pocket so the insurance company can give its execs bonus's.

Or will they cut you a deal? If you pay them cash directly, all the red tape is removed.

In summary, I love it. I absolutely love that this is going on. Get rid of these companies that are middlemen. Insurance companies offer no value. If you think its insurance, your wrong. They have no reserve in denying any of your claims for "pre existing conditions".

With Obamacare, it's only gonna get worse.

Originally posted by wagnificent

Originally posted by Masterjaden

No it is not... Break it down into premises and try to prove any of the premises false.. You can't.. It is perfectly valid...

Jaden

Epic logic fail.

By definition premises are truth claims that can be proven either true or false. If your assertions are "unfalsifiable," then they are not premises. If you don't have premises, you don't have a logical argument. If you don't have a logical argument, it cannot be "valid."

Infallibility is for dogmatists, not for logicians.

Sorry you are the one that fails.

Premise one) Slavery is forced labor, or forced work.

Premise two) A right is something that requires the ability for it to be fullfilled.

Premise three) Healthcare is a right

Conclusion one) Healthcare requires healthcare practitioners to fulfill the right to healthcare

Conlusion two) If the premise that healthcare is a right is true, it requires forced or coerced servitude in order to fulfill the right by healthcare practitioners.

The preceding premises and conclusion are logically sound AND logically valid.

The only way they are not true are if the premises are not true.

The above premises are true, therefore if healthcare is a right, it is tantamount to slavery or indentured servitude or forced labor, which are all synonyms for each other.

Jaden