Obamacare amounts to slavery...

Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by fleabit
So are there no exceptions?

Someone who has a disease they can't control and makes it so they can't work - children who live in a group home and need medical care - your next door neighbor is older and retired, but her sad social security doesn't allow her to pay for the medical attention she needs - they should all just be sick and die? Because otherwise, they are basically making you their slave?

The lack of compassion in this country is pathetic. We have a HORRIBLE health care system. Most countries
CARE FOR their fellow citizens - their health care is multitudes better. Their unemployment is multitudes better. Because they realize the real value is human life. Not owning 3 SUVs, 2 55" tvs and then complaining because your hard earned money dares be spent on someone who desperately needs medical care.

It's so very sad how our country is progressing. People care about them - their little family and nothing else. A thousand years ago, people actually visited and knew their neighbors. They cared for their fellow humans. We are losing our ability to be social - and to care at all for anything that doesn't directly benefit YOU.

If you want to complain - complain about military spending. The astronomical amounts spent by our government for our military for even one year, would probably subsidize an amazing health care system for ALL our citizens for 20 years.

No the difference is that I feel that society will willingly elp those in need and you feel that all of society must be forced at the point if a gun to do so

Jaden

No, they won't help. They will assume it's someone elses problem. MANY people would be left out to live with untreated medical problems and unecessary suffering. The system is set up so that each individual takes care of their self, this is capitalism, it works to ensure people make an effort. We know that this is a good thing for our countries wealth when we compare with communist countries. However, some things must transcend that system and one of them is health. Countries must take account of the fact their monetary/wealth systems create an atmosphere where selflessness is seen as foolish and put in place mechanisms to make sure fundamental things such as taking care of each others lives and health is not lost in the process. To put monetary systems first above all else is a form of extremism.

reply to post by Masterjaden

The logical extension of the new healthcare law is that the government will be required to provide the services necessitated by the needs of the people. Add into this the goal to have health services costs contained and it is an easy step to set the pay for medical staff, the salaries of doctors and administrators, and to require companies to produce medical goods at a set percentage over costs.
In order to accomplish all of the above there will need to be a 'draft' for medical staff following the example of the Peace Corp, perhaps. There will also have to be a 'carrots and sticks' approach for medical school attendance and for medical doctors in practice, who will not be able to earn enough to cover their schooling without the high earnings that exists now. In fact, it could become a violation of federal law for a medical doctor or other highly trained people to retire early - regardless of their financial condition - because the federal system will need them to provide for the public good.
Finally, you will see a huge stagnation in medical development and innovation. The reason is that companies can cover their costs, but what about their research? The current process to bring a new drug to the public often requires as much as $600 million in costs for trials and the regulatory demands.
I see a decades long degradation of medical care because people are often only going to be providers if the correct incentives are there or if there are harsh penalties for not complying.
On the corporate side, if the research and trials costs cannot possibly be recouped through the sales of the drugs the industry, as a complete whole, will simply stop at its current state and not bring new drugs, machines or processes to market.

Less people in debt = good for the economy.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
Show us all the language in the law that says doctors will be dragged out at gun point to provide medical service. That is a pretty big deal, should be easy to find. We'll wait. (and wait and wait most likely)

Still lots of claims about points of guns... have you found that section of the law, yet? You know, where it says doctors will be turned out of their beds at 3 AM to tend to a patient? You know, by the military or police showing up with guns?

That part. Show us where the law says that.

No the difference is that I feel that society will willingly elp those in need and you feel that all of society must be forced at the point if a gun to do so

Jaden

They will?

I'm sorry if I seem rather skeptical that this would -ever- be the case. Would YOU pay for your neighbors medical bill? The nice old lady who has always been so kind to your family, but her social security won't cover her needed medical help? No, I really don't think you would. Nor would anyone else. That is fiction - the general population is never going to collectively just up and help those who need medical attention. They are not going to pay for their prescriptions, nor pay for medical procedures. It's difficult to find someone that will open a door for someone, or help push a dead car off the road (which I did a few days ago - so many people just turn their heads - walk away - don't care, as we struggled to get this car up an incline). And you laughably think society will help. That's rich.

Or you get cases like the folks who tried to feed homeless people in the park, and got arrested for it. Yes, we are a nation of helping and social kindness, no doubt.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

So taxation is theft?

YES!!!

Guess what, it IS a right, As in to provide for the general welfare of the people. Slavery is when corporations pay you just enough money to get from this paycheck to the next. Slavery is when one percent of the population owns 60 percent of the wealth through deceit and subversion of democracy and the rest of us are left to scrape the crumbs they decide to throw us. Slavery is when you cant quit your job becuase if you do you wont get another one due to your age. I didnt know the right wing had such a problem with slavery.

reply to post by Masterjaden


For anyone who seriously like Obamacare, I have an idea for you.
Go work hard and upon receiving your paycheck, take $100 and send it to me or any other American citizen at random. Better yet, do it or I will fine you. Pay the fine or go to jail. Oh, by the way, you will do this for every single paycheck you ever receive for the course of your lifetime. Almost forgot...your married right? Wife or husband also has a job? Great, I'll take $100 from them too. Nothing you can do about it. Go ahead, try and stop me.

Forcibly taking from one to give to someone else, is called robbery. You may refer to to it as a tax, but it's still robbery none the less.

When people give to others because they choose to, no problem. Do it under the fear of fines and jailtime and then you have an eventual revolt, probably armed.

Just wait and see.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden

edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)

Here is a good method to prove your point and make the world a better place:
drive your car onto the busiest freeway you can find, park it in the center lane and lie down in the middle of the road. If a police officer demands that you service his command to move, tell him you are not a slave and shoot him dead.

reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic


The GOP is not trying to stop anyone from voting. Seriously, do you ever read anything other than Democratic talking points?
Dead people and illegals shouldn't vote. Funny that you see it the other way.

Showing a state issued ID to vote is a great idea and I can't wait until all 50 states enforce it.
What's that? Puts a burden on the elderly? On those who can't afford it? How about you in your sincere sense of decency to all Americans shell out exactly $4.18 and pay for an ID for someone.
Bet you haven't read that states are willing to forgo costs for those who can't afford one have you?

No ID=No Vote.
Your dead?=No Vote
In this country illegally?=No Vote

People who disagree with these three simple thoughts are either willfully ignorant or on the DNC payroll.

Originally posted by mr3dboot
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

For anyone who seriously like Obamacare, I have an idea for you.

No you don't, you have the mindless ranting of someone who puts politics before everything else in his life and you lost politically with the SCOTUS decision

Just wait and see.

Won't be waiting or holding my breath, I will go on with my life, occasionally pausing to laugh at idiots such as yourself.

reply to post by stanats


I'm in a great mood my friend. If I thought I had lost politically by the SC decision do you think I would be?
Justice Roberts is a fine conservative judge and crafty guy. Do you really think that Justice Roberts would side with the liberals unless he knew something? He gave America a way out.

Congress has the power to create a tax, congress has the power to take away a tax. I just love that Obamacare now, as a matter of law by the SC (even the liberal judges) is simply 3k plus pages of guess what? Tax!

Oh sure, the president can still call it a penalty. The DNC can call it a penalty, but now we have the truth AND the ruling from the highest court in the land that it's just a tax. The largest tax in the history of the earth in fact.

A tax that congress can defund and a simple 51 votes in the Senate can finalize.
What's that? Thought it was a 60 vote majority? Not anymore thanks to Justice Roberts.

Over 60% of Americans do not want Obamacare. 60% of Americans who by they way are represented by congressman and senators. Are you willing to lay down a bet how those elected officials will vote when their political careers are on the line?

Obama along with Obamacare are going down. Yes, and I'm in a great mood because of it!

reply to post by Masterjaden


With that mindset any sort of tax is slavery. Or listening to any law is slavery. I mean the government is telling you what to do, why listen unless you're a slave?

But then you'd be an anarchist and good luck with that society. Just look at Somalia....

reply to post by mr3dboot

Do you really think that Justice Roberts would side with the liberals unless he knew something?

Yep, It isn't a judges job to rule based on political affiliation, it is to rule on constitutionality. Obama's lawyers argued that it was a tax and he had no other choice to to oblige it he felt it was one.

Forcibly taking from one to give to someone else, is called robbery

It's not really forcible, because we all elect our representatives who create the taxation. Since you republicans hate society you should all move to the Sahara desert where you be completely unaccountable and can live in the hell you wish on everyone else.

Originally posted by mr3dboot
reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic

 

The GOP is not trying to stop anyone from voting. Seriously, do you ever read anything other than Democratic talking points?
Dead people and illegals shouldn't vote. Funny that you see it the other way.

Showing a state issued ID to vote is a great idea and I can't wait until all 50 states enforce it.
What's that? Puts a burden on the elderly? On those who can't afford it? How about you in your sincere sense of decency to all Americans shell out exactly $4.18 and pay for an ID for someone.
Bet you haven't read that states are willing to forgo costs for those who can't afford one have you?

No ID=No Vote.
Your dead?=No Vote
In this country illegally?=No Vote

People who disagree with these three simple thoughts are either willfully ignorant or on the DNC payroll.

Sorry ,but it is you who are grossly misinformed.

Originally posted by CB328

Forcibly taking from one to give to someone else, is called robbery

It's not really forcible, because we all elect our representatives who create the taxation. Since you republicans hate society you should all move to the Sahara desert where you be completely unaccountable and can live in the hell you wish on everyone else.

It is forcible. "Our" representatives do not represent us at all. They represent the corporations and the wealthy.

By this logic teachers at public schools are also forced into slavery. Health isn't a right but education is? IMO they should both be rights.It's not like DRs don't get paid well anyway....better than teachers.I can promise that.

reply to post by openminded2011


Not so fast my friend, a youtube clip of one person doesn't the GOP make.

Again, do you disagree with either of these two simple statements?

Should dead people get to vote?
Should illegals be allowed to vote?

Just the thought that Democrats are so upset because the GOP wishes to put an end to this type of voter fraud should be a telling sign.

They can't win this upcoming election any other way.

Slavery my ass. Any move in this country to dethrone medical services and big pharma as the prima dona industries that they indeed are, is a better direction.

These are new times. The entire job structure in this country is changing, and we have all been affected by it. What is needed is fair service for a fair price. That 'fair' price is still not where we want it to be, however there has been no other effort in this country to get it moving into a fair scenario until now.

You cannot get something for nothing, so if it is a tax, so be it. It is the price of being a citizen of the good old U.S.

While there is a long way to go to get business to bring our jobs back from overseas, and to establish import and export regulations that better serve the business people of America, the industries presently that are dragging our asses down in the dirt are healthcare and pharmaceutical manufacturing.

The stupid and blatant lobbying has got to be stopped and the political dealing has to be eliminated, to the point of prosecuting those that are perpetrating this debacle on our people. Obama is not perfect by any means, but this part of it is a start that will allow us to level the playing field with industries that want to make slaves out of the entire population.