Obamacare amounts to slavery...

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by nenothtu

I'll be happy to answer that for you just as soon as you can demonstrate the relevance to the topic at hand - i.e. "Obamacare", as I have already asked, and you have thus far failed to demonstrate.

Go back to the post where I asked you and you ignored and see the relevance for yourself. Seems like you need a lot of handholding for someone with no need for anyone.

IT WAS A DIRECT RESPONSE TO YOU. So I guess about now we need to wonder what the relevance was when you brought it up.

Fair enough. If you can't point to any relevance in your own irrelevant argument, we seem to be done here. I went back and looked, and nowhere have I made any claims as to the relevance of preschool or even grade school to Obamacare's individual mandate. YOU are the one trying to build that straw man, so build it if you can.

I'm betting you can't, and you are trying to throw out a smoke screen to hide that fact.

Nice try, no cigar.

Seriously - if you can't make your own argument, don't expect me to make it for you. Carry your own water.

Originally posted by davolobos

4. By Hidden Sentence.... All Native Americans shall be exempt from the Fine or the Tax but will still receive full medical benefits paid by the rest.

Please provide some sort of link for this assertion. It's been historical practice that when anyone says "all native americans" relative to a governmental promise of exemption, they really mean reservation dwellers.

Not all Indians live on the res.

Working for Social Security or Medicare involves applying for the job, submitting an application, accepting the job, and going through a hiring process that includes fingerprinting and taking an oath. Employees of the Social Security.Medicare system also can quit when they wish, leave and, at their option, seek employment elsewhere. A lot like getting a job at the local supermarket or bank or topless bar. No slavery involved.

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by Masterjaden


Have you ever heard of private school???

Not all school is paid for at the point of a gun...

It is not paid for by the 5 and 6 year olds attending though is it?

I'm not saying that I went to private schools, I'm just saying that your assumption that someone HAD to get their schooling paid for by other people is farsical.

And then you admit you have no argument because your school was indeed paid for by other people.
I did ask Neno and you how you paid for 1st grade, not how did someone choose to pay for it for you. You read that didnt you?

Also, just as an aside...

Using resources available does not make you a hypocrite.

It does when you say you have no need for them and did not benefit from them.
Those degrees seem really worthless right about now.

A fool turns down services available to him, but it is an evil man who implements them through an illegitimate means or does not try to change an illegitimate means of making them available.

Jaden

A hypocrite derides those same services after enjoying them and even goes so far as to suggest no one else ever get them.

And I am telling you that no one was forced to pay for my schooling at the point of a gun, so your argument is moot...

You might want to determine what the goal of your argument is before you go off on a diatribe that doesn't support the argument you were originally trying to make....

Jaden

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

Why is murder illegal??? Because we have the unalienable right to life endowed on us by our creator, and not you, the government or the police have the authority to take that right.. That is why murder is illegal.

You are changing the topic. I said the government is tasked with protecting negative rights, you denied it, and I then showed that the police (a government institution) is tasked with enforcing the ban on murder (thus with protecting the right to live), which shows your assertion was incorrect.

No it doesn't....

They ARE NOT tasked with protecting my life, as was pointed out to you by another. They are not tasked with protecting ANY ONE's life.

They are tasked with protecting the corporate interests of the city or county or state or the U.S. that they are under the jurisdiction of (yes all of those entities are corporations), The supreme court ruled on that and stated as much...

They will attempt to hunt down and arrest someone who kills me, that doesn't protect my right to life.

They ARE tasked with not violating my right to life. They have no more authority to take a man's life than any other citizen though, even in defense of themselves or another.

Jaden

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by nenothtu

I'll be happy to answer that for you just as soon as you can demonstrate the relevance to the topic at hand - i.e. "Obamacare", as I have already asked, and you have thus far failed to demonstrate.

Go back to the post where I asked you and you ignored and see the relevance for yourself. Seems like you need a lot of handholding for someone with no need for anyone.

IT WAS A DIRECT RESPONSE TO YOU. So I guess about now we need to wonder what the relevance was when you brought it up.

Fair enough. If you can't point to any relevance in your own irrelevant argument, we seem to be done here. I went back and looked, and nowhere have I made any claims as to the relevance of preschool or even grade school to Obamacare's individual mandate. YOU are the one trying to build that straw man, so build it if you can.

I'm betting you can't, and you are trying to throw out a smoke screen to hide that fact.

Nice try, no cigar.

Seriously - if you can't make your own argument, don't expect me to make it for you. Carry your own water.

edit on 2012/7/6 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Not to mention that even if his argument held merit, kindergarten through high school is a state requirement, so again we are being forced to participate at the point of a gun...

Which means that his argument is STILL moot. That's why I had only mentioned post secondary education when he asked.

He's having a little trouble putting together a coherent argument...

Jaden

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by davolobos

4. By Hidden Sentence.... All Native Americans shall be exempt from the Fine or the Tax but will still receive full medical benefits paid by the rest.

Please provide some sort of link for this assertion. It's been historical practice that when anyone says "all native americans" relative to a governmental promise of exemption, they really mean reservation dwellers.

Not all Indians live on the res.

I'm 1/4 !!! sounds like a good deal for me! Where's the cutoff fraction or do I have to live on the res?

Actually I didn't just link Obamacare to slavery...

I linked the very notion that healthcare is a right to slavery...

No 'Right' can impede on another's rights...

You cannot have a right that requires someone else to do a positive action.

The idea that a RIGHT can require someone else's positive action is ridiculous.

You deny another's rights by enforcing yours.

Stick to Canada's socialism, I'll stick to America's Liberty and I will require all Americans to respect my Liberty as guaranteed to me in MY form of government.

If you're so happy to make sure they've got free healthcare, invite them up to Canada, don't invite them to step on my rights down here.

You have three fundamental rights, which can then be broken down into others...

You have the right to LIFE, the right to LIBERTY and the right to PURSUE HAPPINESS...

You have the right to LIFE, meaning that the government cannot arbitrarily decide to deny you your life.

You have the right to LIBERTY, which is freedom (read the bill of rights to find out what our Liberties are defined as)

And you have the right to PURSUE happiness... This means you can pursue it, not that you can have it. You don't have a right to be happy. Part of the pursuit of that happiness is the ability to pay another for the services of making you better when you are sick or injured.

That is not a part of the right to life, because you will die sooner or later regardless, your right to life is only the right to protect you from the government taking it from you. This was in response to King George killing anyone he wanted for whatever reason he wanted.

You have the right to PURSUE healthcare if that will make you happy. You CANNOT have the right for someone else to provide you with it.

Jaden

a reply to: Gibraltarego

yeah and I'd like to point out that slaves get food and clothing and shelter, does that make it any less slavery???

Jaden

originally posted by: rgzing
reply to post by Kaploink

 

In Kentucky about 5 years ago Medicaid ran out of money and no longer was able to pay healthcare providers for their services. When doctors refused to see patients with Medicaid a Kentucky Supreme court justice informed all doctors in Kentucky if they refused to see a Medicaid patient they would be placed in jail. He forced them to provided services without pay. Did not feed, house, or provide anything to the doctors. I pretty sure that is slavery....Yeah no doubt it is.

Plus, under Obama plan we no longer need Medicaid because everyone will be required to purchase health insurance or pay a fine. Just like auto insurance if you own a car. We do not offer any free auto coverage for anyone no matter their financial situation. Plus, I will be disenfranchised when the only health care insurance I can afford does not offer equivalent coverage of Medicaid which others are getting for free or no cost. It would not be fair for me to pay for substandard insurance compared to those that are getting Medicaid for free. We all know President Obama is a fair man and would never let this happen. Excuse me I just threw up in my mouth.....

The government is telling us what insurance we must have in some states they are controlling what size soft drinks people can purchase or how much salt they may use. Freedom....what freedom. We let them get their foot in the door and now watch what happens...

I can't understand the people who try to compare mandatory car insurance to mandatory health insurance...

If I can't afford car insurance, I don't drive...

It's not possible, short of suicide to opt of living...

Jaden

a reply to: demongoat

Oh so you agree with me then...

I didn't say that Obamacare has now MADE healthcare slavery. I said that the basic idea that healthcare is a right, would make it slavery.

If prior to obamacare, the us treated healthcare as a right, then it was slavery then as well.

Jaden

a reply to: Starchildren

I'm sorry, but everyone does NOT deserve to have good health. Especially when you are talking about cancer treatments, by pass surgery and other life extending procedures.

No one is ENTITLED to those treatments, no one DESERVES to have other people give them something.

If those healthcare practitioners CHOOSE to do so, that is very good, but govt has NO place TELLING them that they MUST help anyone who comes through their doors.

Jaden

originally posted by: nenothtu

Originally posted by narwahl

Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden

Public school teachers are forced to educate every child that is in their class
Police is forced to try to solve any crime that comes to their attention.
Judges are forced to judge any case that comes before their bench.
Are they all slaves too?

None of those things are rights - they are services, privileges provided by a government. You live in a privileged society, mistaking that as a "right".

That;s where the confusion lies and how all of the mistakes that America has made since its' inception has jumped up to bite us in the ass.

Everyone is confused as to what is a right and what is granted to us by the government.

I'll let you in on a little secret... NOTHING is granted to Americans by the US govt. Authority is granted to the US govt by the people, who are the power structure of the US govt. That is the primary difference between the US govt and all other govts around the world.

We were founded on the premise, that govt does not GRANT us ANYTHING, but instead, we grant authority (that is revocable btw) to the govt.

I really suggest that ALL people read our founding documents and the papers coined by the USA's founding fathers.

It is astoundingly brilliant.

We have floundered away from that starting premise, but that floundering does not change a single thing. The basic underlying premise is still the same, WE, the People, are the sole authority and we license a revocable authority to those we place in govt.

That is that absolute starting point to the USA's Republic. Everything else, especially calling it a democracy, is just methodology. Any of the methodology that interferes with that basic premise will lead to a bastardization of our founding principles and a #tarded govt.

We have been careening towards that end for a while now and I pray that we can veer back towards those founding principles again without having to resort to revoking our authority from the govt by the same means that they have used to cull us like sheep.

Jaden

a reply to: Masterjaden

U r absolutely right. The leftists wants everyone to be their slaves. THey want to give as much freebies as possible to bring in the collapse, then in the mist of chaos eliminate their opposition and install a autocratic dictatorship.

It has been in their plans since the 40s. It's a slow process but they are advancing ahead.