Destinyone's "What would you lay down your life for?" thread

reply to post by benrl

Dear benrl,

Isn't this the problem with the world?
No one is willing to sacrifice any more.
We are all so self important that we value our selves more than anything else.
I would lay down my life in a heartbeat for my family,

Excellent, that's just the sort of thing I was asking about. Now, go a little further. What else, if anything, do you value more highly than your life? Some ideas were mentioned earlier in the thread.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

Dear VeritasAequitas,

How will you tell the wicked from the just?

I am a wicked and unjust man, will you die for me?

Will you die to advance an idea? To kill an enemy?

With respect,
Charles1952

Would the answers to these questions change if the answers came from a Muslim? I wish some would participate. I don't know much about the concept of dying to convert the world to Islam.

I agree with Klassified in that you really don't know what you would do until you find yourself in that moment. Most people live their lives totally unaware of just how powerful our survival instinct really is, and that's because they've never been in one of these moments. Trust me when I say that staring down the barrel of a gun can be a very humbling experience...

reply to post by Bone75

Dear Bone75,

You make a good point, but what do you do if you see it coming? If you have a minute, an hour, or a day to think it over? Perhaps you're being held in a prison with death facing you if you don't turn in your friends. There's no spur of the moment there, it's just sweating it out in the cell trying to decide what you're going to do.

If you'd be so kind, take a look at some of the hypotheticals in the thread and let me know what you think. I'd be grateful.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


The wicked are the ones who would do harm unto others, merely to satisfy their selfish and materialistic needs. I would never kill anyone, I have not quite decided if it's circumstantial. If someone kills my father, is me taking revenge, part of Karma sorting them out? Or am I labeled a murderer as well, and meant to roll around on her big wheel?

I shall not do harm unto others; this is a fundamental law of life.

"Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of thy law."

Yes it shall, as long as it does not invade someone else's will. Violence begets violence, so stay the sword hand, and turn the other cheek. The Mother will right all wrongs in the end.

In emergency situations, I just do what I have to. There's no thought, there is only action.

I would absolutely lay down my life for any child in danger.

However, I wouldn't necessarily lay down my life for someone older than myself. Honestly, I can't see myself trying to save an "important" person of any kind who is older than me. This is because I am The Most Important person to my young children. People older than me are probably out of luck, I'm sorry to say.

I would not lay down my life for any kind of political, scientific, or religious ideals. Generally because I feel like all ideals are fluid.

However, I would likely lay down my life for my morals. For example, I would fight to the death against a rapist, serial murderer, or known abuser - no matter who s/he is trying to hurt. This is just not something I can abide by. I cannot allow those type of people to get past me. This has been my strongest instinct for as long as I can remember. I will (and do) intervene Every Single Time, because I would rather be hurt than see someone else get hurt. There is no thought, I just do. Just the thought about not doing something in a situation like that makes every fiber of my body scream,"I have to DO SOMETHING!" My purpose is to protect others this time around.

I would fight to the death against anyone invading my home, if there was no choice for flight.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Bone75

 

Dear Bone75,

You make a good point, but what do you do if you see it coming? If you have a minute, an hour, or a day to think it over? Perhaps you're being held in a prison with death facing you if you don't turn in your friends. There's no spur of the moment there, it's just sweating it out in the cell trying to decide what you're going to do.

Too many factors to consider there. How about something more specific? Like why would I be in prison facing death, and what would I have to turn my friends in for?

If you'd be so kind, take a look at some of the hypotheticals in the thread and let me know what you think. I'd be grateful.

Well the only one that hits home with me is the guy who said he'd jump off a bridge to cushion his daughter's fall. In that situation, I fear that my reflexes would have me do the same thing, but I pray that I wouldn't because I'd be leaving 4 other kids without a dad and there's no guarantee that I would save her life.

I would sacrifice for a dearly loved one over a jug of water if be it.If I knew my lousy life would help ten fold,I would triple lindy off mt etna....I would donate plasma to my dog if he needed it....so I guess life is a bargain

Has to be family and friends for me, also freedom if we ever get a clear shot at it. Most certainly not for religion or any nation even my own.

At the moment, I would probably die to protect my family or a close friend.

I would also die for what I believed in, although I haven't found that yet.

One thing I have learned is that a martyr is only a martyr the moment he dies. At every point before that, he is a free man, because he is afraid of nothing.

Its an almost impossible question to answer in advance.

Like most, i'd expect i'd be able to give my life for immediate family 'in extremis'.

However, like most, i've never been tested in any situation even remotely like that so to say with certainty would be pure vanity.

What an interesting question!!

although we can say what we think we'd lay our life down for, i think some things you wouldn't no if you would or wouldnt untill you where put in that situation.

for me i think i could sacrifice myself to save my family.
with others it becomes tricky....depending on the circumstances.
if i seen say a gang beating up an elderly person....i'd like to think my reponse would be to try and save that person but i dont honestly know....would fear for my own safety take hold or would the 'i must help that person' kick in....i dont know!

I will get back to some of the individual posts, but please let me explain for a moment.

If you come up with a quick answer to this question, such as "Children," or "I can't tell what I would do under the spur of the moment, " or "defend the innocent," please go back and make it harder on yourself.

If you would die to save the life of a child or an innocent person, would you also die to save the life of an old man, or someone who is not innocent?

If you believe the questions can be set aside by using the "spur of the moment" principle, assume that country has been conquered (by the Chinese, the Muslims, the Koch Brothers, I don't care) and you and four other ATSers have started a small survival and resistance cell. You get captured and are locked in a FEMA camp. The interrogator tells you (completely honestly, and you can trust him on this) that if you turn in the other four members of the cell you get a ton of gold, a passport and one-way ticket to any other country you choose. Don't turn them in and you die in 72 hours. Which option do you choose? Why?

Or, you get offerred a chance to go on a suicide mission which would result in every citizen of the country getting a copy of your manifesto, or holy Scriptures, or whatever else is central to your movement. Do you go on the suicide mission?

Push yourself to find out what principles you are sure of, then see if you're happy with yourself for holding those principles.

Maybe this is a little different kind of a thread. I don't see that there is any room for heated argument, the questions are too personal, you can't shout "I'm right, and you're wrong." It's also not something that can be resolved by pointing to data, "I have the latest facts on structural collapse, so I know I am right."

Any agenda I might have had is already out in the open (if I even had one). Thank you all very much.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

Dear Veritas Aequitas,

Thank you. I hope I don't misunderstand, so please correct me if I do.

I would never kill anyone, . . . .I shall not do harm unto others; this is a fundamental law of life. . . . Violence begets violence, so stay the sword hand, and turn the other cheek. The Mother will right all wrongs in the end.

Complete non-involvement? Do you kill to stop someone from killing a child? Perhaps, break their arm to stop them? Do you throw yourself in front of a speeding truck to save a child? To save a deer?

Do you kill the soldier about to launch a bomb? I'm trying to find out, and perhaps you're trying to find out, too. Or, perhaps, your principle is already firmly in place. No violence, ever.

But, as I say, I'm not sure I understand you.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by ottobot

Dear ottobot,

I think most would feel very comfortable with the principles you've laid down.

I would absolutely lay down my life for any child in danger.

Even an "unimportant" child you don't know, which would deprive your children of you? Would you for a close friend who is ten years older than you and is the sole support of three kids?

I would not lay down my life for any kind of political, scientific, or religious ideals. Generally because I feel like all ideals are fluid. . . . However, I would likely lay down my life for my morals.

Are morals fixed and absolute, then? Are they the same for everyone?

For example, I would fight to the death against a rapist, serial murderer, or known abuser - no matter who s/he is trying to hurt.

Even if it means depriving your children of your life?

This is just not something I can abide by. I cannot allow those type of people to get past me. This has been my strongest instinct for as long as I can remember. I will (and do) intervene Every Single Time, because I would rather be hurt than see someone else get hurt. There is no thought, I just do. Just the thought about not doing something in a situation like that makes every fiber of my body scream,"I have to DO SOMETHING!" My purpose is to protect others this time around.

Actually, I can understand and applaud this. I'm impressed with your character and the character of those posting in this thread. Thanks.

With respect,
Charles1952

Ive thought about this and actually had an occasion where I had to think of it pretty darned hard and fast. I can say with conviction that I would die for my children and I would die for my husband.. mainly because in an emergency situation he could care for the children better than myself.. strength and skill. If my husband were not around and one was going to die out of the 3 kids.. its icky but no. Id have to stay alive to keep the other 2 safe. I hope like hell I never have to make these decisions.

Strangers? Thats something I can not answer very well. It would depend on the circumstance and the person to be frank.

If the God I believe in came to me and wanted me to sacrifice for the greater good... Id do it, but I wouldnt be happy about it one bit. Some abstract idea of sacrifice for "religion".. hell no and I wouldnt kill for it either.

My country or in war? If it served my comrades.. as in if I were in the position to sacrifice myself in order to save many.. yeah more than likely. Sacrifice myself for my country.. nope.. but Id sure try like hell to get the other guy to sacrifice his for his country.

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Yes Pappa Bear...we think alike.....

I have that deep seeded tribal instinct when it comes to children. ALL children must be protected. I don't know if I should put this here...but, when I was a much much younger woman. Just the sound of a crying baby, any baby, would start me lactating. I've read up on the phenomenon, it is much more common than thought. It goes back to our ancestral maternal instinct, and still carries over in some people. Interesting isn't it.

Des

Same here, Des. I couldn't stand by and watch a child in danger. Maybe it's the maternal thing, or my job as a teacher, but a child's welfare is of upmost concern.

About ten years ago, I was at a public pool when a woman began to beat a young boy (6 or 7?) with a hairbrush. This was no light tapping or smack, this was brutal. The kid was screaming and she was holding him by one arm and laying into him.

NO ONE DID ANYTHING!!! It ashames me to say that. Perhaps, like me, everyone was simply too stunned. Or maybe people were waiting for someone else to do something. I don't know.

About two minutes after it started, I realized no one was going to intervene. So I did.

Now, I'm as non-confrontational as they come. If the meek do inherent the earth, I've got a sizable chunk of real estate coming my way. But I just couldn't let it continue.

I tried talking calmly to her, she cursed me and kept right on hitting. So I tried to move my body between her and the boy. This worked somewhat, but she still had him by the arm and was continuing to hit. So then I grabbed her hand to make her let go, the whole time trying to talk calmly to her. She was scary, like a wild animal.

By this time others were getting involved and we had a small crowd. People were yelling for her to stop, calling police, etc. There was another woman who was trying to pull the boy away, but she wasn't able to.

It ended when the lady let go of the boy. I thought it was over, but no. She took a couple of deep breaths, shrugged off my hands, then suddenly went for him again. She missed the boy with her swing and the brush hit a pole AND BROKE IN HALF. She just kept on swinging.

That did it. I and two other people tackled the lady and restrained her until the police arrived. The boy was taken by ambulance for treatment. It became a big story in our little town and she lost custody.

I'm so ashamed that it took me so long to actually DO something.

So the lesson I've learned, and the reason I've shared this story....never hesitate to help. You might be the only person who does.

reply to post by Bone75

Dear Bone75,

Actually, I think it's better for you if you deal with general principles, and not worry about the specifics as much. Here's one for you from the recent news reports, though. A pregnant woman has cancer, her only hope of survival is chemotherapy. She is told the chemotherapy will certainly kill the child (or foetus, or unborn baby, or whatever). There's a fair amount of time to thimk about it. She said, basically, "Blast the chemo, my kid is going to be born." Result: live child, dead mother.

Would you do the same? (Pretend you're female, if you're not). Was she wrong?

With respect,
Charles1952

No matter what happens in this life, I will die. If I could make a deal, to lay my down my life, and die painfully, to help all mankind after me..... I would do it in a heartbeat. I know a lot more pain than most, having at least one migraine per week as long as I could remember. Having burnt myself over and over again. I am a walking scarfest, I would make a good horror movie probably.