Destinyone's "What would you lay down your life for?" thread

OK, so she didn't write this, but the credit is hers anyway. She requested it in the thread "Salvation and Ressurection Through 'Death' for the Martyrs."

She wrote in a response:

I don't want to lay down my life. I like living....

Well, except on bad days, I do too. The idea of martyrdom is frightening. But is keeping my life so important that it outweighs everything else?

Would I throw myself in front of a bullet to save a family member? Probably, I would. To save, as the Secret Service is trained to do, the President? I think not. How about a stranger? Someone homeless? A young woman being sexually abused? I honestly don't know, and I'm hoping your responses will help clear this up for me. (I think I'd butt in in most cases.)

What about committing a murder that you know you will die for in order to eliminate someone who is planning to kill thousands? What if that person has already killed thousands and is sitting at home in a luxury estate safe from any law? What if that person has not and will not kill anybody, but is about to do some really foul deed like multiple child abuse? (I think I'd only do it to prevent a murder, but on second thought, saving the innocence of a bunch of kids may very well be worth dying for. )

Would I die for my country? I suppose people who join the military voluntarily (as I did) are saying they would, but would the average citizen willingly die fighting an invasion of their country, or would they surrender?

What about principles? Would you die for freedom? How about honor? And finally, getting around to the other thread, would you be willing to die for your God? Your religion? (I don't know, for sure, what I'd do.)

And what if it was a really, really painful death?

Please let me know what you think. This seems very important but i don't have my answers yet. Thanks for helping.

And remember to thank Destinyone for this thread. (If you like it. Otherwise, send me the angry U2U.)

With respect,
Charles1952

Great question I saw it in the other thread and hoped you would make a thread..

Well I think I would lay down my life to stop all the suffering in the world, my Family and If I had the chance I would lay down my life if it stopped people from believing in man made Religions and thus helping the human race to the next stage of evolution then yes I would do it. (pity it can't happen though )

Most people can't answer this question honestly until they are "in the moment" it is happening. But I have found that there is a hero in the majority of earth's population wating for that very moment should the need ever arise.

Very few people will back down when it comes to a situation where life is in danger. I have seen this with my own eyes a few times. Never underestimate the extent to which humans will go for another human when they feel the cause is just.

As to dying for God. I think it takes a lot more courage to live your beliefs, than to die for them.

reply to post by boymonkey74

Dear boymonkey74,

Thanks, let's play a little. What if your death would cause a million dollars to go to a family of 6 suffering severe financial hardship? Ten families?

Let's say you could die in such a way as to persuade 100 people to abandon religion. Is your life worth that?

One person's death is very unlikely to affect the whole world. Set your sights a bit more modestly.

With respect,
Charles1952

I think most of us wouldn't consider most actions as "certain death". I would do basically anything to protect my daughter (who's 4 1/2). If she was falling off a bridge I'd dive off to grab her, enwrap her, and soften her fall even if I knew it meant death for me.

So I'm thinking maybe consider an absolute death scenario, such as the dive-off-a-bridge one I just mentioned. What I'm getting at is that taking a bullet for someone doesn't necessarily mean death.

This is a fascinating subject though! If you had to give your life to save one other person would you? What about if your death could save 10 people, or 1000?

reply to post by Thermo Klein

Dear Thermo Klein,

Thanks, and understood. I did mean catching a bullet resulting in certain death. I'd like to think I'd trade my life one-for-one, but I wonder.

With respect,
Charles1952

SORRY GUYS, I have to run for about 30-60 minutes. I'll try to answer everything. --C

reply to post by charles1952


Heck if I met those 10 family's and had to look into their kids eyes I bet I would but who is going to give a million bucks for me to die?
To stop 100 people from believing in any man made religion Yes I would as long as each of those 100 promised to spread the word and stop another 100 people from believing the same and making those 100 do the same and so on , heck my dream may come true
But you are right we don't really know until we are in that situation do we? I may chicken out.

I would die for a stranger if the reason they were being attacked was unfair. Or if I saw someone doing something that was a danger to allot of people......I would risk it all to stop them.

I would die for a just cause. Something I would deem just, no one else. Like if I knew someone was being treated unjustly be a cop or an important person, and their life was being threatened, I would go to war for them. Get shot and die, but I would defy if it meant saving an innocent life. I wouldn't join a revolutionary movement. Not a violent one anyways.

I think that unless they start one, there will be no very violent revolution. The way I see it, if the government declares war on us, I think we will notice. I will shoot back trust me, but.... I won't start violence in my country and risk my fellow citizens lives by trying to be some sort of glorified communist hero.

Originally posted by Klassified

As to dying for God. I think it takes a lot more courage to live your beliefs, than to die for them.

edit on 6/30/2012 by Klassified because: grammar

Klassified...that is one of the most profound things I've ever read.

Charles, Thank You for starting this thread. It's true, I don't know what my actions would be in some situations, until I was there in the moment. One thing I do know with all my being. Anyone who tried to seriously hurt my child....they could be facing death at my hands. I would lay down my life for her, no second thoughts at all.

I know I have strong emotions when it comes to my Country, and Freedoms provided by my Country. Would I lay down my life for her...yes, I think I would if it came to fighting to keep her free or living under soul crushing tyranny.

This is making me question myself...think about something I've not really given much thought to, except as that Mama Bear who puts her children above all else.

Des

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
I think most of us wouldn't consider most actions as "certain death". I would do basically anything to protect my daughter (who's 4 1/2). If she was falling off a bridge I'd dive off to grab her, enwrap her, and soften her fall even if I knew it meant death for me.

Yep, I would without a doubt, face certain death, if it meant saving my daughter. Not only that, I would also willingly face the eternal torments of a burning hell (if such a hell existed) if it meant saving my daughter.

Would I do the same for anyone or anything else? Don't know for sure.

Originally posted by charles1952
OK, so she didn't write this, but the credit is hers anyway. She requested it in the thread "Salvation and Ressurection Through 'Death' for the Martyrs."

She wrote in a response:

I don't want to lay down my life. I like living....

Well, except on bad days, I do too. The idea of martyrdom is frightening. But is keeping my life so important that it outweighs everything else?

Would I throw myself in front of a bullet to save a family member? Probably, I would. To save, as the Secret Service is trained to do, the President? I think not. How about a stranger? Someone homeless? A young woman being sexually abused? I honestly don't know, and I'm hoping your responses will help clear this up for me. (I think I'd butt in in most cases.)

What about committing a murder that you know you will die for in order to eliminate someone who is planning to kill thousands? What if that person has already killed thousands and is sitting at home in a luxury estate safe from any law? What if that person has not and will not kill anybody, but is about to do some really foul deed like multiple child abuse? (I think I'd only do it to prevent a murder, but on second thought, saving the innocence of a bunch of kids may very well be worth dying for. )

Would I die for my country? I suppose people who join the military voluntarily (as I did) are saying they would, but would the average citizen willingly die fighting an invasion of their country, or would they surrender?

What about principles? Would you die for freedom? How about honor? And finally, getting around to the other thread, would you be willing to die for your God? Your religion? (I don't know, for sure, what I'd do.)

And what if it was a really, really painful death?

Please let me know what you think. This seems very important but i don't have my answers yet. Thanks for helping.

And remember to thank Destinyone for this thread. (If you like it. Otherwise, send me the angry U2U.)

With respect,
Charles1952

Most would die for what they love, so a good critical re-evaluation of everything that matters would be a good idea.

- Dying for one's country is pretty much dying for lines someone drew on a map. Dying for lines on a map could be considered stupidity and shows poor critical thinking of what really matters. The person doing the dying for their country may believe they are fighting for a principle, ie. freedom, democracy etc. which are ideas, nothing more. The fact is they are dying to serve someone else's agenda, and no matter how much they put profundity on their death, it is no more profound than an ant dying for its colony, or a fish dying for its school. Mystifying the truth to justify their running into certain death is a form of dishonesty.

- Dying for honor is pure vanity. It is choosing to die so that they look good in the heads of others.

- Dying for the sake of religion could also be pure vanity. It shows a person who thinks they are more pious than others, and to prove it will make the ultimate sacrifice.

- Dying for a principle is just as vain. It is likely that my death will not further a principle despite my wishes. When someone immolates themselves out of protest, it is the action, not the death, that brings awareness. The action is what happens when still alive. It is the defiance and drastic action which inspires. Death isn't necessary.

- I'm also not sure one would feel he'd have to commit murder to save thousands. There are many other ways to subdue someone. Taking someone else's life in my own hands to save others may be a good idea, but it can be better thought out and accomplished without having to commit the same injustices to life as the person we're trying to kill.

- Would I jump in front of a bullet to save someone I love? Yes.

Last but not least, never become a martyr for your labels, because they are simply not real.

Cool thread!

This is wonderful. Of course it's nice seeing old faces for whom I have a lot of respect, but it's especially good to see the thoughts.

Make this as hard on yourself as you want. If you're thinking that being in the moment might be a huge factor, create a scenario where you have time to think it out. For example, an order goes out that no one may possess gold on pain of death. You're at a friend's house and he confesses to having gold. The police knock on the door and give you 60 seconds to open up. Since it's his house, they will charge and execute him if it's not in his actual possession. Do you take the gold from him and put in in your own pocket?

It seems that most are willing to sacrifice their life for another. I think that's a measure of how much we value life. But as I say, make it hard on yourself. Go back to the gold scenario. This time you are not at your friend's house, but you know he has the gold. The police are conducting a house to house search which will eventually get to every house, including your friend's. He can't escape or throw away the gold. There is a million dollar reward for turning gold possessers in. He's going to get caught anyway, do you rush to his house, pocket the gold and tell him to turn you in?

I've learned not to get between a mother and her kid. (Someday I'll tell you what happened when I did.)

I'm a little less certain about how you feel about dying for a principle, though. Boymonkey74 took a little step into that area when he said twice that he would die to free the entire world of religion. And destinyone is willing to protect her country and her freedoms with her life.

As to dying for God. I think it takes a lot more courage to live your beliefs, than to die for them.

Absolutely right, Klassified. Now what do you do when the Roman guard pulls you out of jail and says "Renounce your faith and go free, if you don't, you get to play with our kitty in the Arena?" Or the Commissar says the same, or the Central Committee Party member, or the Imam?

Your life is important. Is it the most important thing? I think not. Each of us, to be human, should find our values.

With respect,
Charles1952

Not many will die for strangers. Thus, the many attributes, aspects and ideals of civilisation may often lay abandoned.

But ALL will willingly lay down their own precious lives for loved ones. Except for cowards.

However, there will be circumstances that we may not be faced with situations whereby we can stop a tragedy to our loved ones with our immediate presence.

Thus all courageous humans will rationalized those situations, and prepare themselves together as one, mentally and physically to lay down their lives at the very frontlines, rather than to wait for the despoilers and annihilators , whom threatens yours and mine loved ones, and cares not about who you and I are, mere human blood to be sucked dry, before they reach our loved ones, physically or mentally.

Only a fact of our human civilisation of 5000 years.

reply to post by charles1952


How much gold? can I swallow the gold?

If it was bricks of gold and my pal knew he wasn't allowed the gold it is his fault and he should pay for his crime, so no I wouldn't cover up a crime for anyone by saying it was me, they did it and they should suffer the consequences, I wouldnt even do that for my son, if he makes the mistake he has to learn and pay for them.

Originally posted by Destinyone


This is making me question myself...think about something I've not really given much thought to, except as that Mama Bear who puts her children above all else.

Des

Father Bear approves.

My Children, above ALL else. I am a good soul, though, that I extend that to ANY child,as I am sure you do too.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Dear LesMisnthrope,

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I needed a non-traditional approach, so that I could question myself. May I chop up your fine work?

- Dying for honor is pure vanity. It is choosing to die so that they look good in the heads of others.

- Dying for the sake of religion could also be pure vanity. It shows a person who thinks they are more pious than others, and to prove it will make the ultimate sacrifice.

Is it logical to die to earn a good reputation when you're no longer alive to enjoy it? I would argue that you are almost right, but that it is not to impress others, but to make living with yourself bearable. if I did something incredibly vile just to save my own life, say turn in a dozen friends, I'd like to think I would hate myself from that day forward. It wasn't that long ago that people being given a white feather for cowardice would kill themselves for shame. I think some of that remains.

- I'm also not sure one would feel he'd have to commit murder to save thousands. There are many other ways to subdue someone. Taking someone else's life in my own hands to save others may be a good idea, but it can be better thought out and accomplished without having to commit the same injustices to life as the person we're trying to kill.

Well, Ok, you're right, but I'm trying to set up extreme cases to clarify our thinking. Assume death is essential.

- Would I jump in front of a bullet to save someone I love? Yes.

Would you jump in front of a bullet to save someone you didn't know? How about someone you hated?

I'm sorry I'm not addressing your other comments. If you feel they're particularly important, let's discuss them, but they seemed a little, I don't know, political? That's not the word I want, but I don't know how to say it.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by sonnny1


Yes Pappa Bear...we think alike.....

I have that deep seeded tribal instinct when it comes to children. ALL children must be protected. I don't know if I should put this here...but, when I was a much much younger woman. Just the sound of a crying baby, any baby, would start me lactating. I've read up on the phenomenon, it is much more common than thought. It goes back to our ancestral maternal instinct, and still carries over in some people. Interesting isn't it.

Des

reply to post by boymonkey74

Dear boymonkey74,

How much gold? can I swallow the gold?

Forgive me for being personal, but I am really getting to like you a lot. Sorry, too much to swallow.

But you've got an excellent point. Do we have to save people who bring destruction on themselves? Suffering the consequences of his crime is a very common position, I think throughout the world. Of course, he's not going to learn much from his mistake, since the penalty is death, but oh well.

Just a thought. Does it matter if the crime is really a crime? What if it is an unjust law such as hiding Jews in Germany 75 years ago?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


I have actually looked down the barrel of a double barrel shot gun, somethings are just instinct, and stood between to men to protect one from the other.

Sometimes there isn't time to think.

I have been in situation where I had to throw my body over my childs to keep my first husband from kicking them in the head, instead I took the blows, natural instinct
NO FEAR

I live by a simple quote.

"A guy told me one time, "Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner."

What is it exactly that I would die for? I don't know yet.