Destinyone's "What would you lay down your life for?" thread

Originally posted by yourmaker
I live by a simple quote.

"A guy told me one time, "Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner."

What is it exactly that I would die for? I don't know yet.

When you are in that protect mode, when instinct kicks in, things seem different and time stands still.

You don't think of your life.

Originally posted by charles1952
Is it logical to die to earn a good reputation when you're no longer alive to enjoy it? I would argue that you are almost right, but that it is not to impress others, but to make living with yourself bearable. if I did something incredibly vile just to save my own life, say turn in a dozen friends, I'd like to think I would hate myself from that day forward. It wasn't that long ago that people being given a white feather for cowardice would kill themselves for shame. I think some of that remains.

I can agree with that. I was strictly speaking in the context of giving your life for honor so you will be remembered for giving your life for honor. If that is better than living, so be it.

Would you jump in front of a bullet to save someone you didn't know? How about someone you hated?

No I wouldn't. I am more important to me than he is. Name me one good reason why I should go out of my way, get myself shot and die for someone I either don't know or hate. I know it sounds cold, but that's because men are taught to lay down their lives for others regardless of their value.

I'm sorry I'm not addressing your other comments. If you feel they're particularly important, let's discuss them, but they seemed a little, I don't know, political? That's not the word I want, but I don't know how to say it.

With respect,
Charles1952

On the contrary! They are void of politics. When evaluating something I am completely honest with myself and I de-mystify everything by removing my wishfulness and biases. I am not speaking badly of soldiers as I would be dishonoring my family, but if I look at it critically, I see people dying and killing for what they think are just causes, when it really isn't the case. No one is dying for their country—they think they are—but in reality they are dying for other reasons. This should at least be re-evaluated before immediately choosing to throw down ones life.

Anyways, cool topic.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


I am so enjoying reading your posts. One thing you are bringing home, is the fact, we only have one life. So, we damn well better take the time to evaluate exactly what we are willing to toss it for.

Des

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Dear Stormdancer777,

I really like your instincts. Well done.

I wonder if instinct comes at birth or if it is the result of all our experiences and lessons learned? Anyway, I wanted to applaud you.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Dear LesMisanthrope,

I'm delighted to see that you are getting the approval that your posts deserve. As you can probably tell, I am not pushing an agenda here (that I know of), I'm hoping to get people to explore. You are pointing us down an additional path, making our exploration more thorough.

Would you jump in front of a bullet to save someone you didn't know? How about someone you hated?

No I wouldn't. I am more important to me than he is. Name me one good reason why I should go out of my way, get myself shot and die for someone I either don't know or hate. I know it sounds cold, but that's because men are taught to lay down their lives for others regardless of their value.

I'm not trying to persuade anyone to go one way or the other. (Yet. I may change my mind and try to force an agenda down everyone's throat. ) Just exploring here, if we save them because we love them, are we just saying "I'm willing to give my life up for people I am willing to give my life up for?"

On the contrary! They are void of politics.

You're absolutely right, that's why I was saying I was having trouble finding the right word. I agree that I don't know what dying for my country means. Clear thinking demands we say something a bit more concrete. Perhaps, "These invaders will set up a system where no one can speak freely. I want my family, friends, heck, everybody, to be able to speak freely. If my death helps stop the invasion, I'm ready for it."

You're right, it can become so abstract as to be meaningless. Maybe the word "politics" came into my head because abstract, meaningless, generalities seem to be the particular tool of politicians. I meant nothing critical of you at all.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

No I wouldn't. I am more important to me than he is. Name me one good reason why I should go out of my way, get myself shot and die for someone I either don't know or hate. I know it sounds cold, but that's because men are taught to lay down their lives for others regardless of their value.

You never know what you will do until faced with the situation.

“There is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friend.”

Can you imagine what kind of world we would live in if no one was willing?

I have put myself in danger by going to the aid of a taxi driver who was being robbed. I don't have kids but I would jump into a raging river to save my dog. But that's 'in the moment' stuff when adrenalin takes over - like this elderly UK lady who chased off robbers with her handbag.
www.youtube.com...
In these circumstances you don't expect to die, you are just intent on doing what is right.
Certain death is different. Could I do it in a cool calm rational considered manner? I don't know. Could I do it if I knew I would be tortured first? I don't know.
Would I do it for my country? Probably not. Just because it's my country doesn't mean we are the good guys. Frankly I don't know which way is up any more.

reply to post by starchild10

Dear starchild10,

YES! Brilliant!

In these circumstances you don't expect to die, you are just intent on doing what is right.

Doing what is right!!. (Sorry, I get excited sometimes.) We need a society, a world, where "doing what is right" is the accepted thing to do, the expected thing to do, the celebrated thing to do.

AND, we need to pass down from generation to generation what "right" is. Parents can sometimes do it, our public schools almost never do it, churches sometimes do. But we need to have a "right" and a "wrong."

Thanks, starchild10.

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. Stormdancer777, in the post above yours, warns us against a world where no one is willing to do the right thing.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

Dear LesMisanthrope,

I'm delighted to see that you are getting the approval that your posts deserve. As you can probably tell, I am not pushing an agenda here (that I know of), I'm hoping to get people to explore. You are pointing us down an additional path, making our exploration more thorough.

Would you jump in front of a bullet to save someone you didn't know? How about someone you hated?

No I wouldn't. I am more important to me than he is. Name me one good reason why I should go out of my way, get myself shot and die for someone I either don't know or hate. I know it sounds cold, but that's because men are taught to lay down their lives for others regardless of their value.

I'm not trying to persuade anyone to go one way or the other. (Yet. I may change my mind and try to force an agenda down everyone's throat.

) Just exploring here, if we save them because we love them, are we just saying "I'm willing to give my life up for people I am willing to give my life up for?"

On the contrary! They are void of politics.

You're absolutely right, that's why I was saying I was having trouble finding the right word. I agree that I don't know what dying for my country means. Clear thinking demands we say something a bit more concrete. Perhaps, "These invaders will set up a system where no one can speak freely. I want my family, friends, heck, everybody, to be able to speak freely. If my death helps stop the invasion, I'm ready for it."

You're right, it can become so abstract as to be meaningless. Maybe the word "politics" came into my head because abstract, meaningless, generalities seem to be the particular tool of politicians. I meant nothing critical of you at all.

With respect,
Charles1952

I have noticed you haven't pushed any dogma, that's why I enjoy discussions such as these. It allows us to explore. These are great questions because no one asks them despite their obvious importance. So thank you for a great topic

I am with you on the invaders scenario, the value of our way of life, our family and our friends is extremely high. They may even be more important than us as individuals. These are things worth fighting for. Maybe a re-evaluation of all values is necessary for everyone at some point in their lives—to critically think for oneself what one would die for.

What about this scenario?

You see a man killing another. You rush into save the victim and in the process kill the attacker. Later you find out that that attacker, was me trying to kill a man would undoubtedly kill thousands. Who in this case should have died?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

No I wouldn't. I am more important to me than he is. Name me one good reason why I should go out of my way, get myself shot and die for someone I either don't know or hate. I know it sounds cold, but that's because men are taught to lay down their lives for others regardless of their value.

You never know what you will do until faced with the situation.

Absolutely right.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Dear LesMisanthrope,

That's not fair!! I'm supposed to be the one that gets to avoid the tough questions. All right, you've caught me.

You see a man killing another. You rush into save the victim and in the process kill the attacker. Later you find out that that attacker, was me trying to kill a man would undoubtedly kill thousands. Who in this case should have died?

I think I would feel that I did right attempting to prevent you from killing the evil Dr. (I forgot what the evil doctor's name was.)

Your attempt was outside the normal channels of justice, and I'm assuming there was nothing there that made it obvious that the evil Dr. had to be killed. I hate to say it when it comes to life or death, but I think I would have played the odds and protected the evil Dr. against you.

You're asking "Who should have died?" May I answer first, that I don't see anything that I did wrong in protecting the evil Dr. I acted with good intentions, with all the knowledge that was available to me, and there was no time to get more information.

Who should have died? That's easy. Not you, 'cause you're a nice man, you have candy (Excuse me, I'm getting punchy) I think this may be one of the causes of war and hatred; the need, or desire, to act with insufficient information. (We screw up, because we're ignorant, in other words.) I believe this is one of the reasons why the Bible (Sorry, no agenda meant) tells us not to judge. Besides the fact it does something to us, we don't know enough to judge well.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

Dear LesMisanthrope,

That's not fair!! I'm supposed to be the one that gets to avoid the tough questions. All right, you've caught me.

You see a man killing another. You rush into save the victim and in the process kill the attacker. Later you find out that that attacker, was me trying to kill a man would undoubtedly kill thousands. Who in this case should have died?

I think I would feel that I did right attempting to prevent you from killing the evil Dr. (I forgot what the evil doctor's name was.)

Your attempt was outside the normal channels of justice, and I'm assuming there was nothing there that made it obvious that the evil Dr. had to be killed. I hate to say it when it comes to life or death, but I think I would have played the odds and protected the evil Dr. against you.

You're asking "Who should have died?" May I answer first, that I don't see anything that I did wrong in protecting the evil Dr. I acted with good intentions, with all the knowledge that was available to me, and there was no time to get more information.

Who should have died? That's easy. Not you, 'cause you're a nice man, you have candy

(Excuse me, I'm getting punchy) I think this may be one of the causes of war and hatred; the need, or desire, to act with insufficient information. (We screw up, because we're ignorant, in other words.) I believe this is one of the reasons why the Bible (Sorry, no agenda meant) tells us not to judge. Besides the fact it does something to us, we don't know enough to judge well.

With respect,
Charles1952

Yes. That's why you can't blame a soldier for fighting and dying in a war. Although people will say he died for a great cause, perhaps freedom or democracy, which on the outside seems noble and honorable, in fact he is fighting for the men in his foxhole, his friends and the ones he loves. Which is more honorable than dying for an idea.

Anyways, thanks for the convo! I'll check this thread later if you have any more topics we can discuss

reply to post by charles1952


Children.

I am currently in a situation that has completely derailed my life - it involves Children and Child Protection.I am a Teacher and had a Student ask me in class - Miss would you take a bullet for me? I replied instantly - In a heartbeat. He continued with - So if a crazed person came into the classroom... I responded - I would do - I don't know what I would do but I would do whatever I could for you to protect you - all of you. So would I take a bullet for you? - Yes I would.

I am almost 18 months into a journey into inner hell. I will not walk away from a Child - ever - under any circumstances and as I am in a situation that is testing me - I am proof of my word. Please join the dots as I have legal boundaries I have to maintain, or I could lose the battle. Just think - educational setting and I have not been paid for over twelve months - have had my life completely derailed and I am the good person who had adhered to the law and reported information.

On another perspective - so as not to derail the thread - I often wonder why the Catholic Church has hidden so much Child abuse over the years - protected priests who were known to be exhibiting paedophile tendencies etcetera. I wonder whether the Pope or any of the high ranking Catholic Clergy would lay down their life for say ....a Child who was vulnerable and in danger!!??????!!

Much Peace...

Most people wont know until they are in that situation. Ive always belived i would help another human being in need, even if it ment my own life... Tbh i dont value this existence at all... Im really tired of my friends, familys, worlds problems. It all just seems so dumb.... So i wanna give you all an advice. Dont be scared, not of anything, u will just loose if u fear, Life is choice, for good or worse.

This a really awesome thinking thread you've got here Charlers, kudos.

I guess it's the ultimate question isn't it? How much is one human life worth? Ten? Ten thousand? A million? You could endlessly discuss the scenarios of what you would lay your life down for, and put it in any context that you would have to consider right and wrong. It's kind of like finding a million dollars. What if it were for a an orphanage or hospital? Or some greedy banker's bonus? The circumstances dictate the outcome to me.

What would I die for? I would go with others and say if had to choose between my kids death and my own, then, if there were no other choice, then yes, my life for theirs, absolutely.

But here's something to consider. Of my kids, one of their mothers has passed on, and her father is a jailbird and a junkie. The other one's mother is a junkie and has had every kid she's had taken from her. If I die, what sort of future would I leave them? Would they go back to their respective parents, and suffer for it? Would they become a part of the foster system and disappear through the cracks of society? I have thought about this, and although it's harsh to say, the death alternative may be preferable to endless suffering. It's the kind of thing thinking about too much can drive you insane.

I've stood up for people and been beaten senseless for my chivalry in the past. But it's like the old saying, "for evil to prevail good men simply must do nothing." I'd rather stand up and be counted and risk being killed than stand by and allow someone's suffering to continue.

Isn't this the problem with the world?

No one is willing to sacrifice any more.

We are all so self important that we value our selves more than anything else.

I would lay down my life in a heartbeat for my family, we had a break in when I was in High School, I came home late from a party and was sneaking in the back.

I found a window pried open with the screen, My first thought stupid as it was for my parents, quickly got in, I wasn't thinking.

I was able to scare him off, now I see how stupid it was, but in that moment, my only concern was my parents, and my own safety was forgotten.

My parents reamed me for not calling the cops first and waiting.

reply to post by Amanda5

Dear Amanda5,

Children.

I think I understand. They are pure, innocent, and could grow into anything. There is so much hope and future there. Perhaps that's why real men would cry "Women and Children First!" Children are worth sacrificing for. You have done well, a brave warrior wounded, but not defeated.

I can hear your heart and your struggle in your story. I admire your courage in doing the right thing. I hate the Evil that attacks good people. We live in a twisted world, this can't be where we belong.

As far as the Church goes, and you're right I hope the thread doesn't go down this way, there is more to the story than we have been told. But yes, there have been many who have sacrificed their lives to protect others and the Church is proud of them, they set an example.

But the important question is what will I do? What will you do? What do we value? Where is our heart?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


I'd die for any of my family or common man. I am a shield to protect the righteous from the wicked and unjust.

reply to post by 74Templar

Dear 74Templar,

Thank you for your response and your kindness. For me, one human life is incredibly valuable. I have this as part of my religion and belief system, but I don't want anyone to think I'm pushing an agenda, this is too important.

About your situation. You may want to read my comment to Amanda5, just above. The Evil in this world is real and destroying lives everywhere. I don't believe it will win, but that's another story.

As Klassified said earlier (Sorry, I don't remember his quote) sometimes it's harder to live for your faith than to die for it. Many people see death as the ultimate sacrifice, that's why I used it in my examples, but sometimes being available, helping, loving, supporting, is the sacrifice we are called to offer. Will we make that daily sacrifice? For some, accepting that task means that it is no longer a sacrifice, but a joy. Consider Mother Teresa in India. A living, joyful, sacrifice.

I've stood up for people and been beaten senseless for my chivalry in the past. But it's like the old saying, "for evil to prevail good men simply must do nothing." I'd rather stand up and be counted and risk being killed than stand by and allow someone's suffering to continue.

I salute you and the other warriors in this fight. I'm saddened to tears by the stories you all are sharing with us, but what triumph and hope shines through you to the world. I'm honored that you have told a bit of your lives, I'll draw hope from it. Thank you.

With respect,
Charles1952