A Challenge to All Non-Muslim

reply to post by RealSpoke


You sure? How many people in this thread believe me???

When you find yourself having to advise your daughters to put on a headscarf when they leave the house you will remember my warning...but then it will be too late.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I would like to say something smyleegrl... you really are an example of what it means to be a strong woman, and an example of how we can rise above any obsticle thrown in our path. I know a victim of rape personally, and it is a very traumatic experience, but you show us all that nothing, no matter how bad it is, can get in our way.

You definitely have my respect.





PS: it really is no wonder your son has such an admiration of women!

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I would like to say something smyleegrl... you really are an example of what it means to be a strong woman, and an example of how we can rise above any obsticle thrown in our path. I know a victim of rape personally, and it is a very traumatic experience, but you show us all that nothing, no matter how bad it is, can get in our way.

But, it does also highlight the futility of covering your head to avoid the attentions of strange men though doesn't it? Since the majority of rapes, like the case of smyleegrl, are committed by someone that the woman knows and trusts, and not by strangers. I'm kind of in the middle of this one, I don't like uninvited attention so I tend to dress modestly as a matter of course, and I also know that if I wear my hair up or tied back, I am also less likely to be seen as 'available', but I also agree with what wildtimes says on the other thread by foghorn, that the more you cover up, and leave to the imagination, the wilder that imagination will be. And statistically, in the case of stranger rapes, and based on interviews with such rapists, they are more likely to select women who are demurely dressed as potential targets.

I would be happy to wear a scarf, and I think those that do look beautiful in them, but I am not sure the rationale for doing so is particularly sound, if anything it gives greater emphasis to a woman's face and beauty, and more importantly, I think it places the blame on women for the thoughts and intentions of some men. Not to mention, that if I were a man, I would be deeply insulted by the insinuation that I could not control myself, and lacked self-discipline to the extent that women's bodies and features had to be concealed from me.

reply to post by Biliverdin

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
reply to post by RealSpoke

 

You sure? How many people in this thread believe me???

When you find yourself having to advise your daughters to put on a headscarf when they leave the house you will remember my warning...but then it will be too late.

Now you are doing nothing but absolute fear mongering! You are trying to spread your poisonous anti-Islam vile in the guise of preying on some people's Islamophobia (not that I think any of the people who recently commented are Islamophobes).

But this kind of fear-mongering is straight from notorious Islamophobes like Pamela Gellar, Michael Savage, and Rush Limbaugh. America is not going to fall under Shariah law (remember we do have a First Amendment here).

It's really sad that I was trying to honestly discuss this topic with you and when you couldn't counter any of the points that I raised (which all debunked your Islamophobic talking points) you then descend to "One day your daughters won't be able to leave the house without a hijab on" nonsense.

I really don't see this conversation having a point anymore.

Peace be upon you.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
reply to post by RealSpoke

 

You sure? How many people in this thread believe me???

When you find yourself having to advise your daughters to put on a headscarf when they leave the house you will remember my warning...but then it will be too late.

Now you are doing nothing but absolute fear mongering! You are trying to spread your poisonous anti-Islam vile in the guise of preying on some people's Islamophobia (not that I think any of the people who recently commented are Islamophobes).

But this kind of fear-mongering is straight from notorious Islamophobes like Pamela Gellar, Michael Savage, and Rush Limbaugh. America is not going to fall under Shariah law (remember we do have a First Amendment here).

It's really sad that I was trying to honestly discuss this topic with you and when you couldn't counter any of the points that I raised (which all debunked your Islamophobic talking points) you then descend to "One day your daughters won't be able to leave the house without a hijab on" nonsense.

I really don't see this conversation having a point anymore.

Peace be upon you.

You conveniently forget the fact that I was not able to leave the house (in the muslim ghetto) without a head covering on. OF COURSE more and more parents will be having to advise their daughters to cover up in order to avoid being abused by muslims. Muslim men are trawling the streets of England hunting for easily taken in teenage white girls to turn them into drug addicted unpaid prostitutes. You are living in your own little make believe dream world or you are purposely attempting to smudge the truth in order to protect your life system, which is what Islam is. We're not dealing with a thing that makes people sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya. Islam is as political and military as it is superstitious.

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
You conveniently forget the fact that I was not able to leave the house (in the muslim ghetto) without a head covering on.

Actually I haven't "forgotten" anything. Your alleged experience does not mean that this will happen to all women worldwide. As I said, you are doing nothing but fear-mongering.

OF COURSE more and more parents will be having to advise their daughters to cover up in order to avoid being abused by muslims.

More fear mongering. There is no "of course." You are stereotyping and are trying to now justify your stereotyping with a made-up outcome that you are claiming is going to happen before it actually happens.

Muslim men are trawling the streets of England hunting for easily taken in teenage white girls to turn them into drug addicted unpaid prostitutes.

Really? Show me where in the Quran or Hadith that something like this is allowed, recommended, or promoted. In fact intoxicants (alcohol, drugs, etc.) are strictly forbidden in Islam.

Also I want to see some evidence, a source citation for this outrageous claim. What do you base this claim on? Fact or your anti-Islam prejudice?

You are living in your own little make believe dream world or you are purposely attempting to smudge the truth

Pot, meet kettle. Sounds to me like you are projecting. What's really funny is, once again, when the facts aren't in your favor all you can do is make it personal and attempt to smear my character or throw out insults.

I'd also like to point out how you've avoided almost every single point I've made in every comment. You've ignored the points I made about Western Christian men who abuse and/or rape women and my asking if you blame their actions on Christianity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you are not concerned with facts. You only want to promote your Islamophobia. Bigotry tends to ignore facts.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

I really do not trust the accuracy of right wing conservative magazines who are known for their anti Islamic agenda.

Please don't confuse neocons for right wing conservatives, I'm a right-wing conservative. We're the people who say "what was that the Constitution said about freedom of religion? Shouldn't we be getting back to that sort of thing?"

Neocons are "liberals who have been awakened", and promote larger, more overbearing and restrictive government - something they have in common with their left wing roots.

That's what makes them "NEOconservatives" rather than "conservatives".

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
My real truth is that non-muslim women are suffering at the hands of sexist and sexually depraved muslim men in countries around the world that are supposed to be liberal and safe for liberal thinking women. Well, they mostly still are but mold spots are developing.....to your great satisfaction no doubt.

See, your first clue there should have been your use of the word "liberal" Why is your "liberal" government not protecting you from sexual harassment, regardless of the source of it or the religion of it's perpetrators?

Are you saying it's ok if it comes from those fine upstanding Christian types like Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker?

reply to post by TheFogHorn


I am curious about what you think, let say muslim men is all bad, perverted and evil, islam itself is a bad evilish religion. So what you want then, what you think that will correct all of this.

For example it might be better if muslim men convert to another believe or must be exterminate eve?
And how about islam as religion, do you think it should be removed and all practitioner should be sent to jail?

Just want to know when you face a problem and how you solved it.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

I really do not trust the accuracy of right wing conservative magazines who are known for their anti Islamic agenda.

Please don't confuse neocons for right wing conservatives, I'm a right-wing conservative. We're the people who say "what was that the Constitution said about freedom of religion? Shouldn't we be getting back to that sort of thing?"

Neocons are "liberals who have been awakened", and promote larger, more overbearing and restrictive government - something they have in common with their left wing roots.

That's what makes them "NEOconservatives" rather than "conservatives".

ok, that makes sense. I was wondering how I am classified as a conservative when many of what is considered 'conservative' agenda seem to be anti- the things I believe in. So this makes sense why. I will remember this.

Thank you for the political tutorial!

Originally posted by Biliverdin

But, it does also highlight the futility of covering your head to avoid the attentions of strange men though doesn't it? Since the majority of rapes, like the case of smyleegrl, are committed by someone that the woman knows and trusts, and not by strangers. I'm kind of in the middle of this one, I don't like uninvited attention so I tend to dress modestly as a matter of course, and I also know that if I wear my hair up or tied back, I am also less likely to be seen as 'available', but I also agree with what wildtimes says on the other thread by foghorn, that the more you cover up, and leave to the imagination, the wilder that imagination will be. And statistically, in the case of stranger rapes, and based on interviews with such rapists, they are more likely to select women who are demurely dressed as potential targets.

I would be happy to wear a scarf, and I think those that do look beautiful in them, but I am not sure the rationale for doing so is particularly sound, if anything it gives greater emphasis to a woman's face and beauty, and more importantly, I think it places the blame on women for the thoughts and intentions of some men. Not to mention, that if I were a man, I would be deeply insulted by the insinuation that I could not control myself, and lacked self-discipline to the extent that women's bodies and features had to be concealed from me.

Wearing a headscarf and modest dress does not place the blame for the bad thoughts and intentions on women. However, there is a fine line here so I do hope you will bear with me and read all I will be saying.

First, a headscarf and modest dress will not protect a woman from a (strange or otherwise) man who is truely sick and bent on rape. The crime of rape, first off, is about power, and not anything about sex or sexuality. Which is why the timid looking women, shy and more modest are generally targetted for this type of crime, they give the appearance through timidity of being easily overpowered.

You do not have to 'look' like a victim just because you are dressed modestly and/or cover, part of not becoming a victim of this type of crime is not to act like you would make a good one. Here there is a lot in how you carry yourself which can be preventitive, or at least a deterent. But no amount of covering can prevent this type of crime from happening, since it is not about sex or a womans beauty in the first place. This type of crime can happen to an 80 year old woman, lets face it.

While hijab is not going to cover every ounce of natural beauty women have, it does cover a lot more than you realize. A Womans hair and jaw line alone add a lot to ones appearance. While covering does not hide everything about my looks because natural beauty shows, it covers a LOT more than not having it. Other women while I am covered tell me they think I'm pretty, but when they see me uncovered they will say OMG or WoW... your beautiful. Its a huge difference.

Hijab does two things, it hides much of your true appearance, and states also that you are a religious woman of principle. I would rather a man look at me and think "aww, she is kinda cute" than have him trying to get my phone number for a date with him. It cuts down on anywhere from 75% to 90% of the male attention that I otherwise would get. Because generally speaking, if the man still thinks I am pretty even in hijab, he wont be asking me out because what I am wearing is also a statement saying I am not going to be having sex outside of marriage. Which is a second deterent. Even in hijab some men will still ask you out, I once replied to a man, I do not drink and I do not have sex outside of marriage, to which he replied, well I would never marry anyone I had not had sex with. Needless to say, he did not want to take me out any longer

So while it does not deter a predator, for them nothing is a deterrant, it does cut down by a huge percentage the normal male attention. Men stop seeing you as only a sex object, and start seeing you as a woman with brains and abilities, something outside of a thing to just go to bed with.

Men will always be attracted to women, it is a natural thing, obviously. But wearing hijab says more and does more than you would think. No, if I am out uncovered and have a lot of men trying for my phone number and a date with me, it is not my fault, it is the fault of nature and natural instinct, so I make it into something else, something that says I am more than what they see.

How interesting. Would you be so kind as to render an opinion on the news story about pig's blood extracts being used in both Chemtrails and Cancer treatments, that Jews and Muslims use too? A Jewish fellow told me that as long as it's used to save a life, it's Kosher. How does a Muslim like yourself see the controversy?

Here's the link. You'll find other links in the article on the medical stuff;

rmiglobal.org...

reply to post by Moabyte


As the topic of this thread is about modest dress.....and chemtrails and cancer treatments are not part of that topic..... perhaps you might want to start your own thread with your own topic....

reply to post by Moabyte


I just did a little research on that, Moabyte. Very interesting. I'd definitely say you should start a new thread on that topic!

reply to post by OpinionatedB


The big problem with religion (any religion), is that it is their way or else.

Yes there are many good, well meaning people following amny religions, however, there are more muslims, christians, etc who will go to extremes to "convert", people to their ways.

This is what I hate about religion, Christians and Muslims being the wost when it comes to bullying others into the faith. If your religious leaders proclaimed that you should go out, convert or put to the sword anyone who refuses, would you take part? And if so, in your mind, would you still be a good kind and understanding person?

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


There was a case a month or so ago where 8 men were doing this, but foghorn is concentrating on the fact they were Muslim but any persons could have been doing this Muslin,Christian or Mooney.

Foghorn nasty people like this do this not because they are Muslim but because they are Nasty bastards.
I lived in Bradford in a Muslim area and my neighbours knowing I would never be a Muslim treated me as a friend and always helped me and my family out if we needed any.
In fact I have taken a patient of mine to Mosque and the Iman and I always had a chat afterwards about allsorts and he was a great man who I deemed very wise, Oh and he didn't push Islam onto me but answered questions about it if I asked....a real dude.

Oh and my nextdoor neighbour always came round with the most lovely food on a friday because she knew I would be having a drink to help me soak up the booze, she would giggle at me when I was drunk (I felt a little ashamed) lol

reply to post by OpinionatedB


It is interesting to note that your modesty seemingly only extends to your clothing, as my Grandmother would say, you certainly have a Bob on yourself

That aside, while I fully respect your wish to express you adherence to your religion by wearing the hijab, it does concern me that you consider this as a sign of your 'decency', thus by implication, meaning that any woman who does not wear a hijab is indecent. Presumably this view is shared equally by the males of your religion. That in and of itself is troubling. While it is perfectly acceptable, in my view, to express yourself and the things that are important to you, it is not acceptable to use those expressions to make value judgements against others.

In terms of rape, it is an over simplification to claim it is merely about power. To make that claim is to fail to understand the reasons why rape is used as a tool to express power and aggression, and why females are more often than not, outside of closed male societies, the vessels upon which that aggression is unleashed. A post by Eidolon23 in another thread demonstrates my point perfectly...

Originally posted by Eidolon23

While your right to wear a hijab is protected by law in the US, and furthermore, your right to refuse to wear a hijab is equally protected, other women, in other countries do not have that luxury. I would say that a woman who risks her life and liberty to be who she chooses to be is the one who is brave, and not merely the woman who exchanges one set of stares for another.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I'm very happy you had a good time living in Bradford, however your experience does not in any way discredit my experience or fears. A man will have a very different time living in a muslim area. Also, were you the only non-muslim household in your street or streets? Living in a muslim ghetto is very different to living in a multicultural area.

Originally posted by Biliverdin
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

It is interesting to note that your modesty seemingly only extends to your clothing, as my Grandmother would say, you certainly have a Bob on yourself

That aside, while I fully respect your wish to express you adherence to your religion by wearing the hijab, it does concern me that you consider this as a sign of your 'decency', thus by implication, meaning that any woman who does not wear a hijab is indecent. Presumably this view is shared equally by the males of your religion. That in and of itself is troubling. While it is perfectly acceptable, in my view, to express yourself and the things that are important to you, it is not acceptable to use those expressions to make value judgements against others.

In terms of rape, it is an over simplification to claim it is merely about power. To make that claim is to fail to understand the reasons why rape is used as a tool to express power and aggression, and why females are more often than not, outside of closed male societies, the vessels upon which that aggression is unleashed. A post by Eidolon23 in another thread demonstrates my point perfectly...

Originally posted by Eidolon23

While your right to wear a hijab is protected by law in the US, and furthermore, your right to refuse to wear a hijab is equally protected, other women, in other countries do not have that luxury. I would say that a woman who risks her life and liberty to be who she chooses to be is the one who is brave, and not merely the woman who exchanges one set of stares for another.

The most intelligent and insghtful comment on the subject so far. I do hope some people are able to appreciate the subtleties at play that will, in time, make all the difference. Thank you for taking the time to really think the situation through.